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Likely moving to Germany ... need some advice

Old 7/23/18, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Thanks Rocky. I appreciate it man. Sad moment right now. I've had this car for 5 years but I feel a lot more attached to it than I though. This is the Mustang magic, and the reason so many of us love the S197. Pouring an extra whiskey or 5 for this car tonight. Cheers.



Sad day indeed. I can not even imagine. Lots of mixed emotions with this one. Had to be very tough, and even harder when the buyer shows up. Best wishes on this one!
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Old 7/24/18, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
So it's getting real. I posted the Mustang up for sale tonight. And to be honest shed a few tears. The main picture I used was this one. I will miss this car dearly. I just hope I can find a worthy owner, not some POS who will crash it into a crowd or never change the oil
There's nothing wrong with not changing the oil as long as you are using a bypass filter to do that. You can go 100,000 miles on the same oil with a Trasko or Amsoil bypass filter. But how many people own Mustangs and use one of those filters?
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Old 7/27/18, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 2015GT350 View Post
There's nothing wrong with not changing the oil as long as you are using a bypass filter to do that. You can go 100,000 miles on the same oil with a Trasko or Amsoil bypass filter. But how many people own Mustangs and use one of those filters?
I guess if it would make you feel better, you could put one in before selling the car ;-)
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Old 7/27/18, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bert View Post
I guess if it would make you feel better, you could put one in before selling the car ;-)
No thanks. I want to put it in my car now so I can put 100k miles on the same oil without draining it. Then I can get away with spending barely $100 for 100k miles of driving on oil filters, plus a small bit topping off with oil. These people think they are saving money by using conventional oil. I have them beat!
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Old 7/31/18, 05:17 PM
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Hey,

has the Mustang sold already?

If not, I would have some insights on the laws in Germany in regards of importing cars (I am a German currently living in Seattle - and just researched that as I plan to take a car with me when I go back home).

Best,
Andre
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Old 7/31/18, 08:26 PM
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Hey Andre, I'm curious to hear your advice.

The Mustang has not sold yet. I have it listed for $23,500. As far as I know (and I could be wrong) the cost of transporting it to Germany is about $5000 + 7% tax I think. The main issues I struggle with is not the cost of transport, but what I have to do to it to survive Nordschleife ... and Hockenheimring. Last 4 years it was fine, but this year it started overheating after 10-15 min of hard use. May need external oil cooler + water with water wetter in the radiator...

And from what I see there are a ton of Mustangs for sale in Germany. Including my vintage, but even more S550s.

What are your thoughts?

Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 7/31/18 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 7/31/18, 09:16 PM
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I. the legal/tax side:

If you'd be exporting it to Germany, this would trigger tariffs (around 10%) and "import VAT" (19%).

Now if you are moving your place of residence (making you a German or European Union tax resident), these totally go away.

The relevant term in German here is "Umzugsgut", which would translate to "moving goods" (is that an expression in english?) or maybe "personal belongings you take with you when moving.

Preconditions are:
  1. You have owned it for at least 6 months in the USA and can provide proof (e.g. copy of registration).
  2. You must continue to own it in Germany/in the EU for at least 12 months. If you sell it or even borrow it to a friend for a longer term, taxation and tariffs become due.
II. adoption to German/EU regulations

Normally, a car that's imported will need a few documents and a few modifications. This would cost around 1,700 and max. 2,000 EUR (= max. USD 2,400).

But with you moving, it's possible to get an excempt from most of these requirements, which will bring the costs down to approx. USD 500 (that's just an educated guess for now, I am currently inquiring the exact price, but it's definetely way less than the full modification).

What's especially cool about this except is that through that backdoor, you can legally drive a car that has been modified in the US (obviously without caring about EU regulations) in the EU. Indeed very cool, as volume restrictions and some other things are way stricter over there.

III. Transport

From what I was told, I'd assume you can get shipment done for significantly less (2-3,000). But that's just what I heard, did not get proposals yet.

IV Track prep

I don't know about that yet - my race track experience is based on motorbikes only :-)
But I would not see why a German racetrack should be more demanding than an American track. NŁrburgring is in the Eifel mountains and usually chillier than the rest of the country. And oh god, it is beautiful...

Best,
Andre
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Old 8/4/18, 10:54 AM
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Thanks for the heads up Racemoto.

I have one other question for you. I know new and used car prices at dealerships in Germany include the 19% VAT. How does it work when a private seller is listing their car? When is the buyer expected to pay VAT?
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Old 8/4/18, 12:02 PM
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VAT differs from the sales tax common in the US - it's only due for sales by a company/dealer.

And when dealing with a private buyer, dealers have to include VAT. Thus, the prices asked by dealers and private sellers are comparable: A private buyer does not have to consider a tax that will be added later or so.
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Old 8/5/18, 09:33 AM
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I was stationed in Augsburg from ‘88 - ‘93. Was there when the wall came down (and have a piece).

How about selling this one and finding a Mustang after you get over there ?
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Old 8/5/18, 08:58 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I have spend 4 years modding my Mustang and 5 years tracking it. At this point i have a pretty good idea what these cars need to go fast and consistent in track environment. I spent over $5k in my pursuit of lap times and predictable braking/power/handling. The handling of my car allows it to take full advantage of traction while putting down additional power. Together with driver mod (allowing on throttle more and more often) this manifested in engine temp overheating issues. So next logical step would be to run water with water wetter instead of radiator fluid to increase cooling efficiency, plus additional oil cooling. But that is a slippery slope towards dedicated race car.

With the car in Germany my goal is to get out of the box vehicle that can take track work. I don't want to have to modify anything outside of brake compound and tire compound over the next 3 years. So that leads me toward BMW M division products. But that's just my thinking, so any other suggestions for something nimble, gripy and powerful?

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Old 8/5/18, 09:32 PM
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I don't think you can go wrong with a M2 or M3/M4. I rented a M3 in Germany last fall when I was there on vacation - it was an amazing car. That'd be a fun alt to the Mustang while you're in that fantastic country.
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Old 8/5/18, 10:12 PM
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Also, I couldn't help but think of this:
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Old 8/6/18, 07:52 PM
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Thanks Kyle, good to hear you enjoyed tour Beemer while there! Hope to have a similar experience too.

Loved the add, I have my problems with the speed limits in the US also
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Old 8/8/18, 08:45 AM
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MARTY! How did I miss this thread? I admit I don't peruse our section as much anymore except for my tagged/subscribed threads. Now at least this thread will be subscribed.

Congrats buddy! I also head an Engineering org here and also almost went overseas, Germany was a potential, for work, but decided against it as my family/wife's family ties were too strong here. Besides, I just built our dream house... so I need to let that settle for a bit.

I'm also sad about you selling your Pony, but to be fair, I am actually thinking about selling mine as well. Almost 8 years, but not much use of it. Got my new Wruby, and honestly, I have my eyes set on something German or maybe the new Shelby. Think I'll have any issues selling mine?

Sorry about the dog - definitely find a way to get him over, esp if he's family to you. Regardless of cost.

As to your car choice - I almost got the used M3 also, if you recall. A V8 was a must for me. I've been a fan of the AMG more lately though. If choosing between your choices you listed, definitely AMG or M3. Skip the Porsche Cayman. Bleh.

Good luck again on your new stage in your career. Has to be exciting. And you'll do just fine - engineering minds are always great
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Old 8/9/18, 03:34 PM
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Burton, thanks buddy! Long time no talk.

I didn't know you are an engineer also, so cheers to that! Honestly it has been harder to sell my car than I thought. I've had it listed for over 2 weeks now on Cars.com and the only people calling are out of state scams and dealers trying to low ball me with cash offers. I don't think average (non Mustang community) people appreciate the gems these cars are. I hope you have better luck with yours when you decide to let her go. Perhaps a trade in will be an option?

I hear you about family ties. My wife's fam is in local here in Michigan, and they took the news kinda hard. She was a bit broken up about it too but will plan on visiting more often. Lots of travel in our mid-term future.

I did find a pet relocation company willing to take on the task of importing a pit bull to Germany. It will set me back ~$4700 but I plan on doing it. He is family.

I want a German car experience also, and I thought Germany would be the right place to do it. Turns out that if I search for M3/4 cars within 200km of where I will be living, I get something like 18 choices. If I search for a Mustang with the same search parameters I get over 100 search results. Crazy how popular they are. The thought of spending $30-40k on a 5-7 year old car is also making my stomach churn. But I need something that can take on the Ring and all those other great tracks with little extra mods. So I'm land locked here.

Thanks for the wishes and I'll post updates and pictures as the move comes closer, and eventually some Nurnbergring videos in whatever I end up with!
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Old 9/13/18, 08:50 PM
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Quick update on my situation. Contracts are signed, info trip is scheduled for second week of October, I still have been unable to sell the Mustang, but I may have a buyer for the wife's 2016 Kia Sportage. At least there is that.

Also we may be close to securing a home for our 3 year adventure. It's a detached home, well equipped and furnished about 10 minutes from my work and 30 minutes from Stuttgart. It is a bit expensive at 2500 Euro per month, but willing to accept our Pit Bull. Trying to secure that now. Wish me luck.
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Old 9/13/18, 09:08 PM
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I'm surprised your company doesn't pay to have your vehicles sent over. I know the situation is a bit different but when my parents moved to LA in 2014 my dads company paid for all moving expenses including shipping 3 cars.
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Old 9/14/18, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Quick update on my situation. Contracts are signed, info trip is scheduled for second week of October, I still have been unable to sell the Mustang, but I may have a buyer for the wife's 2016 Kia Sportage. At least there is that.

Also we may be close to securing a home for our 3 year adventure. It's a detached home, well equipped and furnished about 10 minutes from my work and 30 minutes from Stuttgart. It is a bit expensive at 2500 Euro per month, but willing to accept our Pit Bull. Trying to secure that now. Wish me luck.
Marty - no luck on the Pony sale yet eh? What happens if it hasnít sold before you leave?

And 2500 Euro for a rental home?

Originally Posted by BA Mustang View Post
I'm surprised your company doesn't pay to have your vehicles sent over. I know the situation is a bit different but when my parents moved to LA in 2014 my dads company paid for all moving expenses including shipping 3 cars.
LA vs Germany. Apples vs Oranges.
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Old 9/15/18, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BA Mustang View Post
I'm surprised your company doesn't pay to have your vehicles sent over. I know the situation is a bit different but when my parents moved to LA in 2014 my dads company paid for all moving expenses including shipping 3 cars.
Going from US to Europe my company has a strict policy of no vehicle shipping. Not because of money either. THe cost of shipping a car over is only $2-3k. But once there it may not meet regulations, and has to be modified. I'm not an expert on this, but yellow blinkers (or at least separate from brake lights), headlight sprayers or wipers are required etc.

Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post


Marty - no luck on the Pony sale yet eh? What happens if it hasnít sold before you leave?

And 2500 Euro for a rental home?
Hey Burton, yup, still looking. It will truly be a loose loose if I can't sell. Ill have to go to the dealer or Car Max and get ripped off. Plus I guarantee that the dealership sells it for more than I'm asking for next spring, so that would be a bummer.

And yes, in the Stuttgart area the housing market is ridiculous right now. Not many places available, and lots of demand so prices are through the roof. Plus I have the disadvantage of having a dog which most renters don't allow. My company is subsidizing more than half of the cost of renting, but still. It's a lot. But hey, I lived in Japan and paid over $2000 a month for a 300 sq ft one bedroom studio, so getting a 1750 sq ft house with 3 parking spots for $500 more is not too bad. At least that's how I try to make myself feel better.
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