V10

The Lincoln Coupe was one of those 7 to 9 D2C vehicles.

This is typical Ford deja-vu all over again.

When D/EW-98 was introducted, there was supposed to be 6 to 10 vehicles based off it (remember the 49er?). As we know now, only 1 ever made it to production. There were rumors of other D/EW-98 vehicles that made it as far as pilot production only to be canceled at the last minute.

m05fastbackGT

Again, the only logical conclusion I can think of is ? the current financial mess their in right now.. otherwise what other reason would there possibly be for either putting these 7 to 9 D2C vehicle plans on hold or scrapping them altogether ? I sure don't understand it that's for sure..And yes ? I do remember the Ford 49 concept, which I still believe could be a very huge success if it ever makes it to production ? heck look at all the success Daimler/Chrysler has had with their retro styled vehicles such as the PT cruiser and 300 sedan ? perhaps what Ford needs to do is step up to the plate and borrow a page from them..? I also believe the demise of the DEW-98 (retro styled T-bird) was not because of the car's design ? but due to it's $38.000 + price tag..As for the new Lincoln coupe ? do you know if there's still plans in the works or is this still up in the air as well ??

smitty

I'm definately not as knowledgable as many posters here, but I remember reading somewhere (on this sight perhaps) that Ford spends about 6 billion per year on R&D...more than many manufacturers. So why all the old platforms? Am I missing something?

Knight

I think that was a typo... i think it was 6 billion per year on R&R..

V10

No you're not missing anything.
There are many, many problems at Ford, which is why it's in such a financial mess.

Of those many problems, one is that accounting has the final say as to whether any product goes into production. Ford has a long history of spending billions of $$ developing vehicles only to have the bean counters cancel the project at the last minute because they say the vehicle won't be profitable.

In other words, a lot of those $6b in R&D dollars are wasted on products that never see the light of day.

Another big Ford problem is the launch and abandon phenomona.
Ford comes out with some great vehicles, but then the bean counters kill plans to make those vehicles better because they say the products aren't profitable enough. To make matters worse the bean counters then demand that the vehicles be "decontented". That is the bean counters want features removed to make them more profitable. Of course that makes matters worse because fewer customers will buy the vehicles as features are removed which accelerates the downward spiral of many Ford products.

I've been a life long loyal Ford customer who has had 26 different FoMoCo vehicles, but sometimes I wonder why.

Hollywood_North GT

Amen.

And just as a follow-up to your comments, I'll add the following (which I actually posted in another thread) >>

Someone I know in East Lansing, Michigan works for one of Ford's chief suppliers, and he has friends and family that work for both suppliers and for Ford. He tells me that it's a constant struggle to get improvements on certain products, and that the engineers confirm that their management refuse to spend the money to get quality parts (i.e. refusing to spend $0.05 to put a cover over a wire harness that is right beneath the brake fluid reservoir, which is dangerous. Especially when excessive amounts of vacuum pressure in the reservoir cause it to leak onto the harness).

He went on to say: "...even though they say they're making progress, they are still doing the same old crap. I see it on and off as new prototypes come in and out. I've spoken with engineers that I'm working on projects with, and they tell me the management doesn't care about how well something is designed and just want it as cheap as possible."

Bottom line: Despite all the hyperbole and rhetoric and clever marketing, to one degree or another, it still appears to be business as usual.

V10

I used to be in the machine tool business and dealt with GM, Ford & Chrysler.

Ford was the hardest of the big 3 to do business with.

Fortunately, I had enough smarts to get out of the machine tool business a long time ago and move on to greener pastures.

Hollywood_North GT

Let's hope Mulally has the insight and fortitude to change all that.

V10

He probably has the insight, but changing Ford's insane corporate culture is another story. It's no mystery why many old companies go out of business. They create non functional internal bureaucracies who's primary mission becomes to preserve their own little empires at the expense of the overall good of the corporation. I'm starting to think that Ford has a less than 50% chance of surviving another 10 years.

m05fastbackGT

This may sound somewhat crazy to most of you, but ? If Ford is really committed towards changing their image and saving themselves from possible oblivion ?? they should bring back Lee Iacocca, he'd be just the right person to turn Ford around..Look at what he accomplished during his tenure as Chrysler chairman

Hollywood_North GT

And they call ME negative!

hi5.0

Maybe he sees the glass as half-full.

Hollywood_North GT

How is "...less than 50%..." half full?

hi5.0

Umm... meant seeing things as an optimist. As in not being zero / 0.00%, which is better than nothing. Guess that didn't come across too well.
I think it is somewhat more generous compared to the odds you'd give Ford - and I tend to agree with you on how dire Ford's situation is and what needs to be addressed for the company to even have a chance at a turnaround.

V10

Many people may think of me as negative / pessimist.

But they would be incorrect, I'm merely a realist.

I quote, from the Detroit Free Press article about Ford's big show for employees & retirees:

JETSOLVER

Ford has no choice but to bet the company, just like Boeing did in 69 on the 747. I don't doubt that although Mulally is of a differant generation, he took that lesson with him at Boeing in 2002 and now at Ford. It is a big hole, and is going to take some time. At least they are being honest finally about the depth of the problems. Whether or not that is enough for the attached barnacles to finally give up is another question. At least they are playing in a very much smaller pool now. And under scrutiny from a guy who knows bull**** when he steps in it. Unlike 'lil Bill.

How is that for mixing metaphors?

Hollywood_North GT

I posted that very quote over here, and was immediately branded a pessimist; negative; a Ford hater, etc, etc, etc.

I, too, am a realist, and agree with you, and I point these things out because I'm NOT convinced that the beauracratic cost-cutting mentality has been excised from this company, which means they're still bullsh*ting us with clever marketing campaigns rather than focusing on content. And that kind of hypocricy ****es me off.

I say this based upon three things:

- What some insiders are telling me (echoed by what many employees are saying, frankly).

- The volume of posts on THIS site complaining about numerous problems with the Mustang, several of which, two years on, still don't seem to be getting addressed at the factory - a fact which is born out in the most recent issue of Consumer Reports (the same one that praised the Fusion) where they have downgraded the Mustang to "Not Recommended" and "Below Average Reliability."

- What I see with my own two eyes when I look at Ford vehicles, which to this day, still demonstrate rampant cost-cutting and "less than industry standard" feature content. When you can't even bother putting grab handles in a new vehicle like the Edge, a vehicle you CLAIM to be pinning your hopes on - or particularly in a performance car like the Mustang - then the bean counters are obviously still calling the shots and decontenting the vehicles to save a buck or two...while the competition continues to pull ahead.

Ford needs to build BETTER products than its competitors in order to regain market share. Vehicles which are "almost as good" won't sway customers, and if that strategy continues, then yes, I give the company less than a 50% chance of survival.

Ford just borrowed $18 billion to cover its costs and has admitted it is using its US plants as collateral for the latest loans. That's the end game right there. If they don't turn it around now, they're done. And the products they're introducing now - while greatly improved - aren't good enough in fit, finish, details, technology and perceived quality to dethrone the segment leaders, IMHO.

Ripstang

Working at Boeing and seeing Allen from my perspective I believe they got the right man .When Allen was in charge of the 777 program back in the early 90's when it first came out the engineer in charge for the entrance /exit doors was told to "make them all the same " .In the 767 all the doors are different .The engineer said don't think I can do that .Allen said fine ,find me a engineer that can and I'll get him to do it . The next thing you know the same engineer came back later and said ok all the doors are the same down to the hinge's except for the rear door the hinges are different .

When number "1" 777 was built it was 1/32nd of an inch out from nose to tail down the body .To me this is one of the best built airplanes from Boeing and because of that now has earned the nic-name "Queen of the skys".

Since this program Allan has only headed upwards in the company and had to make some tough calls especially from 911 .If anything Bill ford brought the company back to life with the 05 Mustang and I'm sure Allen will make some tough calls to bring it back to a profitable company with some great products.

GTJOHN

BC Shelby, I am not as sold on GM as you are. I think they are just as delusional as Ford and Chrysler.
I see GM focusing too much time and money on their more expensive vehicles and not enough time on cars that the average American would buy.

I am a Quality Manager for a company that Polishes & Buffs OEM Wheels for the Big Three. There is a fine line that differentiates those company's, because they share almost all the same suppliers. Now the Big 3 are moving their parts over to China!

We are losing two wheel programs this month - one GM, another a Ford to the Chinese.
I've seen what the Chinese are making, and the quality is well below what we are doing.

I buy Ford, and most likely will continue because I get the "Z" Plan. My father retired from Ford 2 or 3 years ago after 32 years.
To be honest, the only American car I truly like is the Mustang. I think Ford, GM & Chrysler don't have a clue. Yes, they make some "nice" cars, but none I "love".
The really "nice" cars that I have some-what interest in are way over priced, so overall I feel I am being forced to buy cars that I really don't have a connection with!

Hollywood_North GT

Pretty soon the Chinese are going to OWN America.

Wait a second. They already do!