b_btrick

I'm curious about all the posts concerning the new mustang and how it will fare against the camaro ss and the challenger srt8.
In the Mustang lineup, there are (at least to my point of view) three levels. The base Mustang, the Mustang GT, and the GT-500.
Seeing that there are also three levels of each of the others (base camaro, midlevel camaro and the top level camaro ss as well as the base challenger se, the challenger r/t and the challenger srt8) wouldnt it be more reasonable to compare the GT to the midlevel camaro and challenger r/t?
Its nice to think that the midlevel Mustang will be as good as the top level from the others, and I understand that the SS is the only offering with a v8, however it would seem more logical to compare the GT-500 to the top level cars since the price, production levels, and trim levels (ie interior materials, standard and optional equipment) will be more inline with each of them than comparing the midlevel Mustang GT to the top line SS and SRT8.
So, why the insistance on comparing the GT to the SS and SRT8, rather than the premium Camaro (even with its 6) and the R/T?
Again, I'm not trying to get anyone worked up or anything (if I wanted to do that I would just start the IRS vs SRA debate again), it just seems that the proper comparison would be like-to-like and with the GT, R/T and premium (midlevel) Camaro (not sure of the designation for the midlevel Camaro) all being the entry level musclecar entry and the GT500,SRT8, and SS all being the top level entry then these would logically seem to be the best comparisons (at least to me).

eric n

It's all price dependent to me. You shouldn't compare a 30k mustang to a 38k camaro. However, it would be nice not to have to jump to a 48K mustang just to beat a 38K camaro. It seems mustang could sell a poop load of 34k cars with 400+ ponies, a 6 speed and better handling.

stangfoeva

Well the Mustang and Challenger have competing trim levels at competing price

V6 Mustang-- Challenger SE
GT/Bullit/Shelby GT, many more--R/T
GT500--SRT8

Performance and price wise the Mustang already has the challenger beat with it's current models. It'll just get better in 2010 and 2011.

As for the camaro it's a little trickier since the pricing isn't out yet. Plus there are really only 2 trim levels instead of 3. The stick has more hp and weighs less than the auto, but the auto is faster due to the "optimized shifts" and launch control

m05fastbackGT

Eric, you'll have your 6 speed Mustang with 400 ponies, in March of 2010. As in the 2011MY GT!

97GT03SVT

I think it is gonna be cool when we see all these cars all over the road! As far as performance goes I think the Mustang will be mid level in the pack, better than the Challenger yet behind the more advanced and expensive Camaro. The Challenger may not be as fast but, gives a much better ride, almost like a luxury car. If you can't test drive one yet, then get a ride in an SRT8 Charger/300/Magnum it will give you an idea how these cars drive. Not as fast but a better crusier, kinda what the next T-bird should be IMO. A co-worker of mine traded in his Charger for a new Pontiac G8 and though it is not a Camaro it is the closest we have to one on the road and I gotta tell you i'm impressed. I'm not sure of the figures but if the G8 doesn't out-perform a stock 05-09 Mustang GT then it comes pretty close. Though i'm not 100% sold on it's looks I think the Camaro is gonna be a hell of a ride. The only car I don't have a minor point of reference from is the 10' Mustang. I kinda have a feeling that the Mustang is gonna be the budget minded model of the three and will sell the most units, thus the Mustang will remain in production for several years to come!

m05fastbackGT

As in the next 40+ years to come. In addition, the Mustang has been around for over 40 years without any interruptions, and has also been around almost as long as the Corvette.

That being said, the Mustang has also been just as much an American icon as the Corvette. Therefore as long as the Corvette continues to remain in production, the Mustang shall also continue as well !

Kahdir

GT vs SS vs R/T makes the most sense to me...
GT500 vs Z28 vs SRT8
Mustang V6 vs RS vs Challenger SE

I have a '05 GT and I'm purchasing a SS (not waiting for the Z28). Price wise, the SS will be on par w/ my well equiped GT Premium given inflation...
($26,600 @ 2% over invoice with a $28,900 MSRP vs $28k+ invoice/$30k MSRP)

m05fastbackGT

FYI, there will not be a Z-28 available. As only the base V-6 LS and LT models, along with the SS will be offered.

2010 CHEVROLET CAMARO SPECIFICATIONS

Overview
Models:
Chevrolet Camaro LS, LT and SS

• LS and LT models offered with an advanced, 3.6L direct-injected V-6 engine with variable valve timing and a choice of six-speed manual or automatic transmissions.
• SS model offered with 6.2L V-8 – including fuel-saving Active Fuel Management on automatic-equipped combinations – and a six-speed manual transmission.

stangfoeva

I think you'll be surprised if you plan on getting a SS for $30k

jsaylor

If 30k is a hard line price stance then, with respect, he'll probably be walking if he can't find something else he likes.

GM simply cannot keep churning out new cars which don't make money (even they have admitted the same now, though it is long overdue) With Zeta they already have one obvious money loser in the Pontiac G8 which stayed on lots like it was riveted there through it's first, abbreviated model year despite obvious, low-ball pricing. Now GM has cranked the price up a bit, although I would bet the farm that the msrp is still very low compared to unit cost, with even a base V8 G8 topping 30k.

The likely scenario here is that GM has two choices with the Camaro. Price the Camaro realistically according to unit cost, causing more than a few ruffled eyebrows risking the same fate we saw the GTO endure, or low-ball yet another price tag so the Camaro can be competitive in the market in the hopes that they can at least appear to have a winner on their hands. Either way they lose ,which begs the question....why do they keep doing this to themselves?

Personally, I don't think Camaro will live to see a mid-cycle refresh, and the car hasn't even hit the market yet.

m05fastbackGT

Bob Lutz has already confirmed the 2010 Camaro will NOT be priced competitively with the Mustang, but will be marketed as an upscale/premium coupe.

That being said, you'll be lucky to find a base SS for 35-37k MSRP. And that's providing there isn't any ADM markups, otherwise expect another 5-10k on top of that.

By the time it's all said and done, a fully loaded SS will more than likely cost you between 42-48k !

stangfoeva

I agree with jsaylor and m05fastbackGT. That's why GM has not released official pricing yet. They don't want to scare anybody off lol

Kahdir

Remember just before the '05 Mustang was released... droves of people assumed the under $20k mark tossed around was for the GT... it was $25k.
When it was released, tons of dealers marked them up $2k-$5k over MSRP...

I paid a hair over invoice... for a GT Premium w/ all the bells and whistles. (the only options not ordered were the auto, the other 17s and the red inserts)



Yeah, it took me contacting 30+ dealers, but I ordered the day the order banks opened and received the 2nd GT to that dealer (about a week apart) and about the 16th to PA. Mine was the first GT w/ manual trans, billet dash w/ mycolor, Shaker 1000, rear wing and alarm to eastern PA.

I plan on the same hardball on pricing for the SS, there are always dealers willing to take a sale as opposed to letting it sit for months. I expect there will be dealer to mark them up just like the Vettes and SSRs, but I know the target price is just under $30k -that is the upscale level they're looking at, priced competative would be $25k...

The only option I have to have is the 6 speed manual... (extra cost), everything else that I need is standard.

BTW...
had a '08 SRT8 @ 2% over invoice lined up and change my mind... can't have 2 MOPAR products in the driveway

...also
I remember Ford mentioning the Mustang was targeting upscale (ala prev. gen. M3) before its release...

97GT03SVT

I have to disagree with you on people thinking the GT would come out at $20,000 mark. Say what you will about markups but when all was said and done the difference in MSRP between the V6 and GT models were within a couple hundred dollars of the 04' models. This adjustment was more of an inflation markup than anything.

As for the Camaro I don't think we will see nearly $40,000 models but I say mid $30,000 range. I seriously doubt it will come in under $30,000. I'm not sure how accurate it is but Motor Trend had some pricing specs and the 300HP V6 was in the $25,000 range so I say you will pay at least $6-7k more for the base V8 because it comes with more content.

I am in no way bashing the Camaro, it will be a higher performing/content car than the Mustang but there will probably be a significant bump in price. I'm thinking that the Camaro will also out price the Challenger. Either way good luck on getting the Camaro, let us know how it is when you get it!

jsaylor

Mustang was indeed targeting some lofty competition in terms of performance before it's release. But those comparisons were a performance benchmark, not a price benchmark. Lutz has stated outright that Camaro will not be competitively priced with the Mustang, and with a base GT chiming in at ~27k now that means we can likely expect the Camaro SS to start at 30k at the very least. And as I stated above, even if that isn't the case and GM prices the car aggressively it seems pretty likely that, in that circumstance, they will have another money loser on their hands, and GM has more than enough of those already. Again, whatever benefit the customer may glean I think it is pretty obvious GM has cooked up yet another situation where they lose either way

I would say a safe bet for a pricing estimate is to look at the Pontiac G8 potentially knocking off just a little, but not much, in terms of msrp. (actually, historically speaking coupes tend to cost more than their closest sedan brethren so I am being rather generous here) That gives us a V6 Camaro which costs at least 25k, and likely more, and a V8 SS which starts at 30k, again at the very least. Truth be told I wont be surprised if a Camaro SS starts closer to 32k, and when you look at where the pricing for the G8 sits that would be a more realistic number.

m05fastbackGT

As for the Camaro outpricing the Challenger, the SRT8 is already above 40k at MSRP. Unless your referring to the upcoming Challenger R/T, which has a price tag of $29,995 MSRP. Then it's just as you said, the 2010 SS will definitely outprice the Challenger.

Once again, if there are no ADM markups. Then yes, I also say mid 30k range for the 2010 SS. However if there are markups, then expect to see 40k + for a fully loaded SS !

titanjc

I agree with the mid-30's price for the Camaro SS. It has to be relatively close to the cost of a Mustang GT and Challenger R/T, as people will definitely be cross-shopping these. It also can't be TOO high, because you're starting to approach Corvette territory around $40,000. But then again, considering the Corvette, you can't price the Camaro TOO low, since they have similar HP numbers (if I remember correctly).

m05fastbackGT

As for being relatively close to the Mustang GT. Since when is the Mustang GT priced in the mid 30k range. When the current GT, is priced 3-4k below 30k MSRP.


Perhaps to you, 5-10k is relatively close, however to other's including myself. I consider it as a significant difference when shopping for a car.

As myself and other's have mentioned before, It's already been confirmed that the 2010 Camaro SS will be marketed as premium coupe, and will NOT be priced competitively with the Mustang GT !

97GT03SVT

Prices of the Mustang have increased every year since 05'. I was at a dealership this past Friday and I didn't see a single GT for under $30,000. I'm talking cars with leather, IUP and some with 18's..no navigation or mach 1000. I assume a stripped GT may tuck in just under that, but for most people who buy well optioned GTs should expect to pay about 30k, heck a loaded GT drop top is in at $40,000! I do agree that the Camaro will be priced higher, but pricing a GT at under $30,000 isn't true in most cases.

My main argument is that there is no way the SS will come in under $30,000 at MSRP. From what I understand the Chevy was the priciest platform to develop and even the R/T Challenger bases at $30,000. My guess is that a stripped SS will come in at $33,000 the R/T at $30,000 and the new Mustang base GT will slot in at $28,000..........of course options could add several thousand to any of these rides......... I bet the real bargain in the spring of 10' will be picking up a low mile 07-09 GT500! Thats what i'm planning on!

stangfoeva

The only thing I disagree with is the Camaro being a higher content car than the mustang. The current mustang already has tons of options. And the 2010 will have SYNC, rear view camera, ambient lighting, etc. The Camaro won't even have sat NAV.