Ltngdrvr

Driver72, where did you get the 20% correction to crank HP from?

I believe they use 15% and those are only estimates.

Driver72

He wrote it in his description of how he got the 60 hp claim for the Stage 1 tune.
Somebody copied and pasted it in this thread too.

Ltngdrvr

Okay, I see it now, yes, 20% is incorrect for a manual trans car.

Strange, I wonder if they missed that or just put it down wrong?

jeff s

Looks like a great kit. I'm interested.

Still uses the stock pipes with resonators between the X and the mufflers?

Run this package at the track and post some numbers for the doubters. Remember the days before everyone had a chassis dyno?

Driver72

Who is doubting? Only questions. Without them you don't get answers.
All he'd really have to do is simply post the dynos.

Glenn

some of these posts are entertaining to say the least.

tom281

So you're saying that simply by changing the fuel used in the car to a higher octane, you'll get more power, right? The computer in the car does nothing to help create this difference; the higher octane fuel just does it all by itself?

Driver72

No what I'm saying is your top comment is completely wrong, and your second comment is clearly an attempt to cover your inaccurate first comment.

Putting in higher octane gas in the car, with NO tune, does in fact give the car more power. You do not need to "change the tune" as you stated to get that increase.
You don't even need to have a tune. The car's stock ECU will allow more timing and less knock retard for more power. Again, no tune needed.
So yes, in fact, changing just the octane gas used in the stock car does give you more power.
Oh and also, many tuners do also sell fuel (often of the race variety).

tom281

That was exactly my point; that by changing fuel you're essentially changing the tune as well because the computer adjusts certain parameters.

You've proven what I was saying, which is the tuning is what gives you the additional power, no matter if it is the computer changing it automatically or the end user uploading an aftermarket tune to the car. It is not simply the fuel, but rather the reactions from the altered computer tuning.

You've proven my point and confirmed what I was saying earlier; that said, I don't appreciate you questioning my integrety by saying my posts are inaccurate and some kind of attempt to cover up inaccurate statements.

Oh to answer your question, yes I am a moderator here and part of my job is to keep threads in-line and on topic. You've now made several posts arguing your point, which is your view and your opinion. Vendors can chose to advertise however they wish; if Brenspeed or anyone wants to quote flywheel hp (like Ford, Saleen, Roush, etc) or RWHP numbers, it is their decision. As a potential purchaser, ask the questions and know what you're buying. That is what makes forums like this a good one, let's just not turn it into a vendor bashing session.

Driver72

Tom, my point was you said changing the fuel (octane) you put in the car is not going to give you more power, changing the tune will.
You don't change the tune to give you more power when you change octane.
The computer does it, you are not "tuning" anything. Further, you can not change the tune (even if you add a tuner) without changing to the higher octane fuel. So it IS the fuel that gives you more power.
I don't think there is a tuner out there that can/will extract much if any more power out of a stock car if it's running 87 octane.

Sure they MAY be able to get 2-3 rwhp more by advancing timing a tiny bit, but at the risk of detonation.

You might of just explained yourself incorrectly, but you aren't getting the additional 10-12 hp from going from 87 octane to 91-93 by changing the tune, you are doing so by changing the fuel with the higher octane.

Yes, vendors CAN choose to advertise however they wish, I'm not disputing that. But remember there are laws against false advertising. But customers can also question the validity of those advertisements and claims. And there are no laws that don't allow that.
That's what keeps businesses in line and (hopefully) honest, when those questions lead to more questions which if a business is falsely or wrongfully representing their product then becomes known to the customer base who will then not purchase a product from a dishonest company or vendor who is misrepresenting their product or claim.
Brenspeed is free to make their claims, and in doing so, if they want to wrongfully use a 20% drivetrain loss by ADDING 20% based on their dyno numbers, they can do that. But we can also bring that fact to light to make the customer more enlightened. And that's what really matters.
So look at my several posts as a "buyer beware" and a customer enlightening/protecting proposition.

PLEASE KEEP KEEP THE THREAD ON TOPIC.

pony racer

Knight

just my 2 cents. it doesn't matter what they say for hp gain, they told the actual rwhp gain so that is 100% accurate even if true drivetrain loss is around 12%.

If you want, just use the rwhp they gave and use 12% to see what they offer and buy it or not.

BRENSPEED

From our dyno graphs it clearly states stock showroom floor to our Stage 2 Power package. Our car made 354 rwhp completely stock (87 octane). After our Stage 1 package; Steeda CAI, SCT X3 (93 Octane), and Axlebacks, our car laid down 393 rwhp. From there, we added our Kooks header package (our Stage 2 package) and the car laid down 417 rwhp. Take the 15% drivetrain loss for a manual (20% for an auto) and our Stage 2 package is a 74 Crank horsepower gain or 63 RWHP gains from factory show room condition to our Stage 2 package. ((417/0.85)-(354/0.85)) = 74.

Our dyno graphs are clearly labeled with starting mods to current mods. How is this false advertising. I doubt we got this point false advertising for the last 5 years.

Stock vs Steeda CAI and tune (Stage 1 - mufflers)
http://www.brenspeed.com/3000gt11steeda.html

Stage 1 vs Stage 2:
http://www.brenspeed.com/2011kooks.html

RedCandy5.0

My auto car is making way more than 330rwhp. 20% drivetrain loss. So i must have a factory freak baby!

todd03blown

Nice post; thanks for the information!

fossy207

Here's my $0.02. The following link is the page on your website with the pricing, ordering instructions and details of your 60hp+ Power Pack:
http://www.brenspeed.com/coyotestage1a.html

Most of your buyers will not see this thread before making a purchase decision. Most will make a decision based on the above web page. My problem is this...your website description does not make mention of 87 vs 91 octane, stock show room floor (btw does every dealer give you the car with just 87 octane or just yours?) vs 91 Octane, nor does it show a dyno graph with any details.

Based on this argument, can you now understand how a potential buyer would make an ill informed decision because you've omitted some very important details in the product description?

jay45dee

My car had 91 octane in it from the dealer...

jusss sayin..



I just wish they would compare apples to apples.
Advertise what your dyno read stock on 91, then with your mods on 91.
All this BS would be avoided.

tom281

I've cleaned up this thread in order to keep it ON TOPIC. Anyone who wants to keep arguing or pushing their own OPINIONS as FACTS can take it to PMs.

28.

Are you sure this is what they told you? New 5.0 has a forged crank last time I looked that up..

Oh, and I was with the guy when he filled up my car with 91. I'm sure this isn't always the case but I have to agree with some of the previous posters that the numbers are misleading since your trial run was done with 87 octane.

Glenn

but he started out with one hp rating and ended up with 70+ more hp than he started with.