2010 VIDEO IS UP!!!!!! and is REVEALED
11/26/08, 05:03 AM
#361
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As for your Vision of a "Blockbuster" Followup to the 05-09 Mustangs, Getting rid of that "Effin Faux Gas Cap" would be getting rid of a Part of Mustang Heritage, and isn't referred to as a "Gas Cap" It's a Medallion, AKA Badge. The C Scoops You would incorporate only represent part of Mustang Heritage, as the 69-73's Have No C Scoop, and You Yourself Love to Point out the 69's were voted "Best Mustang Ever". Your Wheel Well Tubs are Fine for a Modified car, but Production reality? C'Mon Man Get Real! The same goes for the "Teardrop Side Mirrors from a 70's Mustang or Torino" Do you have any Idea How Out Of Place that Would Look on a Modern Car? As for Keeping the Round Center HVAC Vents, Again this is just another of my posts you missed, as the Center HVAC Vents on the 2010 were changed to Rectangular for 2 Reasons, For One, they did this as a Heritage cue from the 67-68 Mustangs, Secondly the Most Obvious Reason was to Incorporate the New Larger Nav Screen further up to Improve the Ergonomics of the 2010's Cockpit.
The thing I gather most from You, as well as most others that Dislike or Hate the 2010, is Simply the fact that you are Clinging Too Desperately to the Past. If You Really Love those "Pure Mustangs of the 60's and 70's Then Buy One of Them, if You can Find One let alone Afford One in Nice Condition! This is a NEW MUSTANG! Designed for Today, not the 60's. It is Something Fresh and Modern with All of the DNA of the Mustang Still Intact. It has all of the Safety and Convenience Features of a Truly Modern Car, while still having the overall Look and Feeling of the Classics, Without Being a Direct Copy or Clone.
Well Said TampaBear67. My thoughts EXACTLY.
11/26/08, 12:37 PM
#364
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TampaBear67: Great, informative, detailed, & documented posting! I especially enjoyed the Studebaker Avanti/Golden Hawk section--I stand corrected on the designer of the Avanti! Back in the day, Raymond Leowy was given the credit in the auto mags, and that's why I credited him with the Avanti's timeless design. A '63 R-3 is still one of the greatest designs of a fabulous decade: the Avanti, the Mustang, the XKE, the Stingray, the Riviera, the original Ford GTs, the Continental, the GTO, the SS-396, the Toronado, the Galaxie 500, the Impala Super Sport, the Lola T-70, the GoTeX, the Charger, and on and on and on...
Your effort to define a shape that is the theme of the 2010 Mustang (a shape pretty much exemplified by the outline of the 2010's dash panel) reminds me of Ford's previous shape-themed design--the first real re-design of the Taurus (which had had only one facelift a few years prior to the re-design) often referred to as the "guppy" look. It had ovals everywhere--headlights, rear window, yada yada yada. It also lost the DNA that had made the earlier-style Taurus the top-selling model of car in the US for several consecutive years. No one would deny that the guppy was anything less than utterly contemporary for its day. No one would deny that the Taurus had boldly gone where no Taurus had gone before. Yep, here's your right-up-to-the-minute, totally modernized Taurus. The re-styled, thoroughly updated Taurus took a hit from which it never recovered. Though much sleeker than its predecessor, the re-styling was not a success (How's that for understatement?).
I think Ford blew the 2010 mid-life update and some agree with me. You think Ford hit a homer into the stands and some agree with you. Let the marketplace decide--polls and forum blather mean nothing since the only votes and opinions that truly count are cast at the sales desks in the Ford dealerships. It's a product, after all. If you don't like it enough to buy it, the designers have basically failed. We'll know soon enough!
Greg "Eights" Ates
Your effort to define a shape that is the theme of the 2010 Mustang (a shape pretty much exemplified by the outline of the 2010's dash panel) reminds me of Ford's previous shape-themed design--the first real re-design of the Taurus (which had had only one facelift a few years prior to the re-design) often referred to as the "guppy" look. It had ovals everywhere--headlights, rear window, yada yada yada. It also lost the DNA that had made the earlier-style Taurus the top-selling model of car in the US for several consecutive years. No one would deny that the guppy was anything less than utterly contemporary for its day. No one would deny that the Taurus had boldly gone where no Taurus had gone before. Yep, here's your right-up-to-the-minute, totally modernized Taurus. The re-styled, thoroughly updated Taurus took a hit from which it never recovered. Though much sleeker than its predecessor, the re-styling was not a success (How's that for understatement?).
I think Ford blew the 2010 mid-life update and some agree with me. You think Ford hit a homer into the stands and some agree with you. Let the marketplace decide--polls and forum blather mean nothing since the only votes and opinions that truly count are cast at the sales desks in the Ford dealerships. It's a product, after all. If you don't like it enough to buy it, the designers have basically failed. We'll know soon enough!
Greg "Eights" Ates
11/26/08, 12:46 PM
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TampaBear67: Great, informative, detailed, & documented posting! I especially enjoyed the Studebaker Avanti/Golden Hawk section--I stand corrected on the designer of the Avanti! Back in the day, Raymond Leowy was given the credit in the auto mags, and that's why I credited him with the Avanti's timeless design. A '63 R-3 is still one of the greatest designs of a fabulous decade: the Avanti, the Mustang, the XKE, the Stingray, the Riviera, the original Ford GTs, the Continental, the GTO, the SS-396, the Toronado, the Galaxie 500, the Impala Super Sport, the Lola T-70, the GoTeX, the Charger, and on and on and on...
Your effort to define a shape that is the theme of the 2010 Mustang (a shape pretty much exemplified by the outline of the 2010's dash panel) reminds me of Ford's previous shape-themed design--the first real re-design of the Taurus (which had had only one facelift a few years prior to the re-design) often referred to as the "guppy" look. It had ovals everywhere--headlights, rear window, yada yada yada. It also lost the DNA that had made the earlier-style Taurus the top-selling model of car in the US for several consecutive years. No one would deny that the guppy was anything less than utterly contemporary for its day. No one would deny that the Taurus had boldly gone where no Taurus had gone before. Yep, here's your right-up-to-the-minute, totally modernized Taurus. The re-styled, thoroughly updated Taurus took a hit from which it never recovered. Though much sleeker than its predecessor, the re-styling was not a success (How's that for understatement?).
I think Ford blew the 2010 mid-life update and some agree with me. You think Ford hit a homer into the stands and some agree with you. Let the marketplace decide--polls and forum blather mean nothing since the only votes and opinions that truly count are cast at the sales desks in the Ford dealerships. It's a product, after all. If you don't like it enough to buy it, the designers have basically failed. We'll know soon enough!
Greg "Eights" Ates
Your effort to define a shape that is the theme of the 2010 Mustang (a shape pretty much exemplified by the outline of the 2010's dash panel) reminds me of Ford's previous shape-themed design--the first real re-design of the Taurus (which had had only one facelift a few years prior to the re-design) often referred to as the "guppy" look. It had ovals everywhere--headlights, rear window, yada yada yada. It also lost the DNA that had made the earlier-style Taurus the top-selling model of car in the US for several consecutive years. No one would deny that the guppy was anything less than utterly contemporary for its day. No one would deny that the Taurus had boldly gone where no Taurus had gone before. Yep, here's your right-up-to-the-minute, totally modernized Taurus. The re-styled, thoroughly updated Taurus took a hit from which it never recovered. Though much sleeker than its predecessor, the re-styling was not a success (How's that for understatement?).
I think Ford blew the 2010 mid-life update and some agree with me. You think Ford hit a homer into the stands and some agree with you. Let the marketplace decide--polls and forum blather mean nothing since the only votes and opinions that truly count are cast at the sales desks in the Ford dealerships. It's a product, after all. If you don't like it enough to buy it, the designers have basically failed. We'll know soon enough!
Greg "Eights" Ates
11/26/08, 04:39 PM
#366
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Eights
It's not that anyone doesn't feel you have a right to opinion but when you use term like "dorkmeister" it take something away from the point you are trying to make. That's all.
Now as far as those fake front scoops on the 1970, Where those an active feature on a racing version? If so some classes required all vents and scoops ect that where on the race car to be on the production version working or not. I do not know but this may be the reason for those scoops.
Does anyone know??
It's not that anyone doesn't feel you have a right to opinion but when you use term like "dorkmeister" it take something away from the point you are trying to make. That's all.
Now as far as those fake front scoops on the 1970, Where those an active feature on a racing version? If so some classes required all vents and scoops ect that where on the race car to be on the production version working or not. I do not know but this may be the reason for those scoops.
Does anyone know??
11/28/08, 04:12 AM
#367
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While I appreciate TampaBear's insight as to the cohesion of the design of the '10, the bottom line for me is that I feel the exterior is just not as pleasing to look at as the '05-'09s. In other words, just because the design is cohesive doesn't necessarily mean it is good.
I am happy that some of you disagree with me, as Ford needs the business.
I am happy that some of you disagree with me, as Ford needs the business.
12/1/08, 08:34 AM
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Eights
It's not that anyone doesn't feel you have a right to opinion but when you use term like "dorkmeister" it take something away from the point you are trying to make. That's all.
Now as far as those fake front scoops on the 1970, Where those an active feature on a racing version? If so some classes required all vents and scoops ect that where on the race car to be on the production version working or not. I do not know but this may be the reason for those scoops.
Does anyone know??
It's not that anyone doesn't feel you have a right to opinion but when you use term like "dorkmeister" it take something away from the point you are trying to make. That's all.
Now as far as those fake front scoops on the 1970, Where those an active feature on a racing version? If so some classes required all vents and scoops ect that where on the race car to be on the production version working or not. I do not know but this may be the reason for those scoops.
Does anyone know??
If anyone scrolls back a coupla pages, they'll see my quote that begins "Yeah, the dorkmeister turnsignals in the headlight bezels...". I make no apologies for trashing that, well, TRASH! How how how could they f**k this up so badly? Did no one take a few steps back and say "We're performing an unnatural act in modeling clay with those turn signals."??? Were the Quality Control people on strike???
Sheesh! (Boomer has approved this expletive.)
If they HAD to make a change to the turnsignals, why didn't they just take the attractive turnsignals from the 2005 Mustang concept that hit the autoshow rotundas back in 2004??? Or just leave well enough alone and stick with the turnsignals that have served the S197 well throughout the last five model years! They make me think of something the pointy-haired boss in "Dilbert" would insist upon adding just to prove that he has the final say...
Greg "Eights" Ates
Last edited by Eights; 12/1/08 at 10:25 AM. Reason: (Alerting to the correction further downstream)
12/1/08, 09:23 AM
#369
Cobra R Member
Eights: Parnelli Jones's 1970 Boss 302 Trans-Am championship racecar had non-functional front fender scoops just like the street Boss 302. IIRC, cowl induction brought outside air to the cold air box--some of the pics of Parnelli's '70 Boss show the sealed-off front fender fake scoops, and the Motor Trend article featuring the Saleen Parnelli Jones Edition versus this 1970 racecar may have an engine compartment pic or two. 'Natural as cuttin' out those el fako scoops seems to you and me, that's not what Bud Moore's shop did back in the day--Moore was a lifelong NASCAR builder so I guess he went with what he knew best--cowl induction was the standard NASCAR induction at the time (and may still be...). Cowl induction worked well back when windshields were pretty steep--the greater windshield rake that became common in the late 'Seventies reduces the effectiveness of all inductions that require high pressure build-up in front of the windshield.
Greg "Eights" Ates
Greg "Eights" Ates
Which were turned into Extractors on 69 Coupes and Convertibles, before being completely eliminated for the 1970's
The Idea for the 67, as well as 69's Factory Trim comes from Racing Applications as far back in Mustang Heritage as the 65/66 Shelby Mustang's NACA Duct's mounted in the Quarter Windows
Which Were joined by Lower Quarter Scoops as well for 1967/68 Shelby's.
As for that Famous 1970 Parnelli Jones Mustang, take a Good Close Look at the Picture Below (Be Sure To Enlarge It). Not only are those El-Fako Scoops Open, so are the Headlight Buckets, which is where most Race Cars drew their Brake Cooling Air from to keep their brakes from becoming over heated during Gruelling Conditions, Especially Trans Am Racing.
Last edited by TampaBear67; 12/1/08 at 09:52 AM.
12/1/08, 10:06 AM
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TampaBear667: You are THE MAN when it comes to thorough documentation!! There are other pictures of that '70 with nothing in the front fender "scoops" but paint--it sorta makes Parnelli's '70 look like it has a dragster one-piece fiberglass front end. We know the hood was separate, however, so it was the photography making it appear to be a dragstrip one-piecer...
The first G.T. 350s had functional rear brake scoops with ducting hoses added to the "C scoops" on each side of the bodies just behind the doors. I dunno if they were still functional on '67 and later G.T. 350s/G.T. 500s but since the upper scoops vented the passenger compartments I assume that the lower scoops still actually "scooped air" too. The NACA/NASA ducts in the rear windows may have been optional on the G.T. 350Rs just as they were decades later on the 2000 Cobra Rs if you popped for the optional differential cooler (one of the few options you could get on the 2000 Cobra Rs, and a damned great one it was, too!).
It seems to me that the '69 Mustangs should have at least offered optional brake-cooling ducting for those top-of-the-rear-fender scoops, but they didn't and I don't think the aftermarket ever offered such a kit either. Did the '69 Shelbys have functioning scoops on the tops of the rear fenders--or were the odd-looking '69 Shelby top-of-the-rear-fender scoops purely ornamental, too?
I'm gonna check out that Motor Trend article and see if there are engine compartment pics that will shed some light on this discussion...
UPDATE: CHECK THIS OUT:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../photo_16.html
This pic appears to show a duct leading from the air box on the carb to the passenger-side front fender scoop!!! It doesn't reveal any clues as to what may have been the case for the driver's-side front fender scoop, but I think it definitely resolves that the '70 Boss 302 raced by Parnelli Jones used a duct from the passenger-side front fender scoop! TampaBear67 prevails!!!
Greg "Eights" Ates
The first G.T. 350s had functional rear brake scoops with ducting hoses added to the "C scoops" on each side of the bodies just behind the doors. I dunno if they were still functional on '67 and later G.T. 350s/G.T. 500s but since the upper scoops vented the passenger compartments I assume that the lower scoops still actually "scooped air" too. The NACA/NASA ducts in the rear windows may have been optional on the G.T. 350Rs just as they were decades later on the 2000 Cobra Rs if you popped for the optional differential cooler (one of the few options you could get on the 2000 Cobra Rs, and a damned great one it was, too!).
It seems to me that the '69 Mustangs should have at least offered optional brake-cooling ducting for those top-of-the-rear-fender scoops, but they didn't and I don't think the aftermarket ever offered such a kit either. Did the '69 Shelbys have functioning scoops on the tops of the rear fenders--or were the odd-looking '69 Shelby top-of-the-rear-fender scoops purely ornamental, too?
I'm gonna check out that Motor Trend article and see if there are engine compartment pics that will shed some light on this discussion...
UPDATE: CHECK THIS OUT:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../photo_16.html
This pic appears to show a duct leading from the air box on the carb to the passenger-side front fender scoop!!! It doesn't reveal any clues as to what may have been the case for the driver's-side front fender scoop, but I think it definitely resolves that the '70 Boss 302 raced by Parnelli Jones used a duct from the passenger-side front fender scoop! TampaBear67 prevails!!!
Greg "Eights" Ates
Last edited by Eights; 12/1/08 at 10:19 AM.
12/1/08, 10:33 AM
#371
Cobra R Member
Thanks Eights, I Try. I do Love that Saleen, Parnelli Jones Edition. That is a Super Sweet Tribute Car! I would Love to see them Recreate that Look again with a 2010.
12/2/08, 01:49 PM
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Ah, well, the only way I'll ever own a PJ is to steal one--fat chance gettin' away in a bright yellow car with black period trim and large white circles on the doors! Still...
Greg "Eights" Ates
12/2/08, 02:31 PM
#373
Cobra R Member
Those Same Exact Thoughts Ran Through My Mind when I Posted that.
12/3/08, 08:40 AM
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Yes, the Mustang is still around after all these years. But I never said that Ford built winners each and every year. I did say that Ford is still making the Mustang successfully and that it has survived many eras of car design changes. Even the "dud" years that you pointed out have brought us to where we are today with the Mustang still going strong. Make sure you read the posts correctly, just like you advised. No car company can ever say they made widely acceptable models every year. That's how one evolves and makes improvements. And the affordable performance claim I trust applies to the non-V8 Mustangs of which Ford sells more of.
To say that the 2005 design will be the classic of the future? Well, that's a stretch! I don't have a crystal ball to determine this, but go ahead and buy all you can for the day when they pop in price and make you countless dollars of profit. Good luck with that one............
I normally don't do this, but your advanced years of knowledge have left you stuck in some particular time in a car design era, claiming to know exactly what is needed or lacking in the next great model. By all means offer yourself and talents up to the car gods as we await the next revelation from you. It's obvious to me at least, that you've never been on a design team and seen what regs and stips you have to dodge/comply with to bring about an effectual and acceptable change that you can firstly sell to the company's higher-ups, then costed-out to the production floor, and finally to the consumer, not to mention SAE concerns.
The 2010 Mustang represents a mild tweaking from the 2005 model which is exactly what it was supposed to be. There is more to come, but you'll have to wait.
To say that the 2005 design will be the classic of the future? Well, that's a stretch! I don't have a crystal ball to determine this, but go ahead and buy all you can for the day when they pop in price and make you countless dollars of profit. Good luck with that one............
I normally don't do this, but your advanced years of knowledge have left you stuck in some particular time in a car design era, claiming to know exactly what is needed or lacking in the next great model. By all means offer yourself and talents up to the car gods as we await the next revelation from you. It's obvious to me at least, that you've never been on a design team and seen what regs and stips you have to dodge/comply with to bring about an effectual and acceptable change that you can firstly sell to the company's higher-ups, then costed-out to the production floor, and finally to the consumer, not to mention SAE concerns.
The 2010 Mustang represents a mild tweaking from the 2005 model which is exactly what it was supposed to be. There is more to come, but you'll have to wait.
"It's obvious to me at least, that you've never been on a design team and seen what regs and stips you have to dodge/comply with to bring about an effectual and acceptable change that you can firstly sell to the company's higher-ups, then costed-out to the production floor, and finally to the consumer, not to mention SAE concerns." Actually, a long, long time ago I was in the Product Design branch of the School of Design of a large state university. To cut to the chase, those with automotive design aspirations were the lepers of that School of Design, which was horrified that such riffraff had gotten through Admissions screening to sully the sanctity of Architecture, the One True God. It's a long story, but instead of designing automobiles my career finally settled on Software Development for decades until I got the opportunity to get into Operations where I am now--a much more rewarding field. Software Development is quite similar to Product Design--good software does the job right every time & does so quickly, is modular so it can be upgraded easily, and complies to the in-house coding protocols & standards so anyone can work on it with little or no intro and no surprises at 3:30 AM. I've been on design teams since 1987, but was doin' individual programming for the company and other employers before that.
The big difference here is that we are talkin' styling, and not function. The S197 has already proven how well it functions to the delight of thousands (or to the chagrin of many roadracing competitors in the Grand Am, the SCCA, NASA Iron, and the FIA!), so that's not an issue in 2010--other than that the additional electronic adornments have probably upped the gross vehicle weight...
Styling done right, as in the current S197, is like cheerleaders naked--no degree or diploma is necessary to understand and appreciate what you see.
Contrived styling, as in the 2010, is like watching those cheerleaders put on bras with square cups. Somethin's not right here!
Greg "Eights" Ates
DarkCandy08GT: It ain't so, Candy, hell no it ain't so!
Last edited by Eights; 12/3/08 at 10:07 AM.
12/3/08, 09:02 AM
#375
Shelby GT350 Member
I think Eights has been hypnotized online by Tampa and Coop! He is going soft and starting to gravitate to the dark side. Say it aint so Eights! Say it aint so! 
12/3/08, 09:22 AM
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12/3/08, 10:20 AM
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Please go back and read the update to my last posting--it wasn't posted until after some of you contributed additional postings to this thread!
Greg "I love the smell of napalm in the forums" Ates
Greg "I love the smell of napalm in the forums" Ates
