2010 power ratings
7/22/08, 06:16 AM
#61
Shelby GT350 Member
The problem is the Camaro V6 and the Challenger R/T with probably have times worse than the GT since they weigh more so compared to those 2 the Mustang will still come out ahead.
Like bt4 says we are comparing apples to oranges with the GT against the SS & SRT8. For the price of these 2 you can put a supercharger or a turbo on and have over 400HP and still have spend a few thousand less than either of these cars MSRP.
Yes it will be nice to have a 300HP V6 and a 400 HP GT and a 600HP SE model to even up the playing field.
Like bt4 says we are comparing apples to oranges with the GT against the SS & SRT8. For the price of these 2 you can put a supercharger or a turbo on and have over 400HP and still have spend a few thousand less than either of these cars MSRP.
Yes it will be nice to have a 300HP V6 and a 400 HP GT and a 600HP SE model to even up the playing field.
7/22/08, 01:18 PM
#62
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To respond in with the same degree of understanding and thoughtfulness--quit being a shill for Dodge.
Do you read before you post? I posted a reply to your comment about Ford lacking in HP in terms of the Challenger and Camaro--the point being neither of those vehicles from their respective mfg.s offer a 500-HP version (yet). Ford does offer a 500-HP Mustang--which you chose to ignore (still).
You ask if I'd like a turbo V6 in my Mustang--if you had bothered to read my previous post you'll see I already answered that question--my daily driver is a MS3 (turbo 4) and that I'd be happy with 340-HP twin-turbo V6 in a Mustang. As for what most folks prefer, I'll not presume to speak for everyone, just myself, thank you.
I also still fail to see how the 2009 top-of-the-line Camaro, or the 2009 top-of-the-line Challenger outguns a GT500. Maybe you have some performance specs to back that up? The only head-to-head between the SRT8 Challenger and the GT500 that I know of is the one that appeared in Motor Trend and in the performance arena, the GT500 easily beat the SRT8 Challenger. It wasn't even much of a contest. The new Camaro won't even hit the streets until next March--and any head-to-head comparison will have to wait.
If you like the Challenger better than a Mustang that's fine. If you like N/A better than forced induction that's your perogative. But don't presume to define your likes and preferences as the standard to which everyone must conform.
Do you read before you post? I posted a reply to your comment about Ford lacking in HP in terms of the Challenger and Camaro--the point being neither of those vehicles from their respective mfg.s offer a 500-HP version (yet). Ford does offer a 500-HP Mustang--which you chose to ignore (still).
You ask if I'd like a turbo V6 in my Mustang--if you had bothered to read my previous post you'll see I already answered that question--my daily driver is a MS3 (turbo 4) and that I'd be happy with 340-HP twin-turbo V6 in a Mustang. As for what most folks prefer, I'll not presume to speak for everyone, just myself, thank you.
I also still fail to see how the 2009 top-of-the-line Camaro, or the 2009 top-of-the-line Challenger outguns a GT500. Maybe you have some performance specs to back that up? The only head-to-head between the SRT8 Challenger and the GT500 that I know of is the one that appeared in Motor Trend and in the performance arena, the GT500 easily beat the SRT8 Challenger. It wasn't even much of a contest. The new Camaro won't even hit the streets until next March--and any head-to-head comparison will have to wait.
If you like the Challenger better than a Mustang that's fine. If you like N/A better than forced induction that's your perogative. But don't presume to define your likes and preferences as the standard to which everyone must conform.
My points are valid and many feel the same way as I do.
At this point in time the Challenger offers FAR more than the Mustang is offering- at about the same price. Ford keeps saying an IRS would be too expensive but Chevy and Dodge seem to have added an IRS to their cars and still are competitive with Ford in price.
I'm not a shill for Dodge. I owned and 05GT and presently own an 08 Bullitt. Why is it such a crime to like the Challenger and think it offers a pretty good overall package?
The 09 Challenger RT will have a 6 speed, 375hp, 404 torq. and 3.73 or 3.92 rear end (depending on tire size). Of course it will also have an IRS and many other upgrades that Ford at present doesn't have.
I, like many others, want Ford to match the offerings from other car companies. If not- well we will be buying from the competition.
7/22/08, 01:22 PM
#63
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The problem is the Camaro V6 and the Challenger R/T with probably have times worse than the GT since they weigh more so compared to those 2 the Mustang will still come out ahead.
Like bt4 says we are comparing apples to oranges with the GT against the SS & SRT8. For the price of these 2 you can put a supercharger or a turbo on and have over 400HP and still have spend a few thousand less than either of these cars MSRP.
Yes it will be nice to have a 300HP V6 and a 400 HP GT and a 600HP SE model to even up the playing field.
Like bt4 says we are comparing apples to oranges with the GT against the SS & SRT8. For the price of these 2 you can put a supercharger or a turbo on and have over 400HP and still have spend a few thousand less than either of these cars MSRP.
Yes it will be nice to have a 300HP V6 and a 400 HP GT and a 600HP SE model to even up the playing field.
I would think that within a few months were going to see some road test articles that will give us a better idea of how the car will perform.
7/22/08, 06:35 PM
#64
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I personally don't care one bit how much horsepower and torque the Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro make, nor how much they weigh.
The entry level V8 offering should be able to run 13's in the 1/4 mile (at 100+ mph).
The SE V8 offering should be able to run 12's in the 1/4 mile (at 108+ mph).
The top dog performance offering should be able to run 11's in the 1/4 mile (at 116+ mph).
All need to be 2 door rear-wheel-drives with sporty/musclular styling. I don't care what mix of power vs weight they use as long as they can walk the talk at the drag strip.
The entry level V8 offering should be able to run 13's in the 1/4 mile (at 100+ mph).
The SE V8 offering should be able to run 12's in the 1/4 mile (at 108+ mph).
The top dog performance offering should be able to run 11's in the 1/4 mile (at 116+ mph).
All need to be 2 door rear-wheel-drives with sporty/musclular styling. I don't care what mix of power vs weight they use as long as they can walk the talk at the drag strip.
7/22/08, 07:18 PM
#65
MOTM Committee Member
@Whammer
the camaro isnt even in production yet. and currently the only challenger out competes with the GT500, and the Shelby out performs it.
so i would wait a while before being so concerned about not being able to compete with chevy and dodge. now if ford decides to carry over the 4.6 for 2010, then you can be worried
the camaro isnt even in production yet. and currently the only challenger out competes with the GT500, and the Shelby out performs it.
so i would wait a while before being so concerned about not being able to compete with chevy and dodge. now if ford decides to carry over the 4.6 for 2010, then you can be worried
7/22/08, 08:13 PM
#66
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
My points are valid and many feel the same way as I do.
At this point in time the Challenger offers FAR more than the Mustang is offering- at about the same price. Ford keeps saying an IRS would be too expensive but Chevy and Dodge seem to have added an IRS to their cars and still are competitive with Ford in price.
At this point in time the Challenger offers FAR more than the Mustang is offering- at about the same price. Ford keeps saying an IRS would be too expensive but Chevy and Dodge seem to have added an IRS to their cars and still are competitive with Ford in price.
Although the Challenger may offer far more than what the Mustang has to offer. The Challenger is also far more expensive than the Mustang, thanks to ADM markups at 20K above MSRP for the SRT8.
And if you think the 5.7L R/T version is going to sell at MSRP, you had better think again. Because they're also going to be marked well above MSRP as well. In fact I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that after it's all said and done, a fully loaded Challenger R/T will probably cost you around 37k-40k
That being said, the Mustang continues to offer the best bang for the buck value. Hands down !
7/22/08, 11:58 PM
#67
Cobra Member
My first car was a 69 Mach. I've owned 2 65 convertibles, 1 66 fastback, 1 85 convertible, another 69 mach, and my current 2005 gt. I have never NEVER owned a gm product. But I am definitely interested in the new Camaro as well as the Challenger. Ford better step up if they want to keep my business and there are apparently thousands who feel the same way. Can Ford afford to lose thousands of customers now??? Have you seen their stock prices.
7/23/08, 04:48 AM
#68
Shelby GT350 Member
Although the Challenger may offer far more than what the Mustang has to offer. The Challenger is also far more expensive than the Mustang, thanks to ADM markups at 20K above MSRP for the SRT8.
And if you think the 5.7L R/T version is going to sell at MSRP, you had better think again. Because they're also going to be marked well above MSRP as well. In fact I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that after it's all said and done, a fully loaded Challenger R/T will probably cost you around 37k-40k
That being said, the Mustang continues to offer the best bang for the buck value. Hands down !
And if you think the 5.7L R/T version is going to sell at MSRP, you had better think again. Because they're also going to be marked well above MSRP as well. In fact I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that after it's all said and done, a fully loaded Challenger R/T will probably cost you around 37k-40k
That being said, the Mustang continues to offer the best bang for the buck value. Hands down !
Like you said the Mustang offers a lot for the money but people are always complaining they want more. They want all the upgrades the other cars have but are they willing to pay more? Will they sell as many GT's if the car starts in the low $30,s? If they give us IRS, 400+HP and better quality interior with all the gadgets the price would have to be close to the competitors since it would be competing with the SS and SRT8 then.
7/23/08, 07:58 AM
#69
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Although the Challenger may offer far more than what the Mustang has to offer. The Challenger is also far more expensive than the Mustang, thanks to ADM markups at 20K above MSRP for the SRT8.
And if you think the 5.7L R/T version is going to sell at MSRP, you had better think again. Because they're also going to be marked well above MSRP as well. In fact I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that after it's all said and done, a fully loaded Challenger R/T will probably cost you around 37k-40k
That being said, the Mustang continues to offer the best bang for the buck value. Hands down !
And if you think the 5.7L R/T version is going to sell at MSRP, you had better think again. Because they're also going to be marked well above MSRP as well. In fact I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that after it's all said and done, a fully loaded Challenger R/T will probably cost you around 37k-40k
That being said, the Mustang continues to offer the best bang for the buck value. Hands down !
Now I know many dealers are putting ADM's on them- but the GT500 also still have hefty ADM's on them. So I really don't see what your point is.
7/23/08, 08:02 AM
#70
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My first car was a 69 Mach. I've owned 2 65 convertibles, 1 66 fastback, 1 85 convertible, another 69 mach, and my current 2005 gt. I have never NEVER owned a gm product. But I am definitely interested in the new Camaro as well as the Challenger. Ford better step up if they want to keep my business and there are apparently thousands who feel the same way. Can Ford afford to lose thousands of customers now??? Have you seen their stock prices.
+1
Ford is in terrible financial shape, can they afford to let GM and Dodge out shine them? I'm not prepared to write them off just yet- but the 2010 had better offer more than just a few design tweaks.
We should get a much better picture in a few months time.
7/23/08, 08:10 AM
#71
I Have No Life
While every little piece of the market share helps....
they need more homeruns OTHER than just a mustang though.
They need to focus (no pun intended) on the the volume cars moreso.
I'm not saying they'll ignore the mustang or anything (cause they won't by far..)
but the large volume cars need the major attention. The rest will follow.
they need more homeruns OTHER than just a mustang though.
They need to focus (no pun intended) on the the volume cars moreso.
I'm not saying they'll ignore the mustang or anything (cause they won't by far..)
but the large volume cars need the major attention. The rest will follow.
7/23/08, 09:09 AM
#72
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I like the Challenger & Camaro. I can't see myself in a Dodge -their Quality stinks. I've never really liked Camaro's or modern GM cars, but I do like the Camaro, and that SS is going to be a beast! Not completely sold on its looks or the interior. But it will most likely perform.
I am a Ford loyalist and love Mustangs. I will try to hold off til 2011MY. If the hp isn't there, I'll consider buying a Camaro or hold off and save for a Shelby GT500. - Ouch! Last thing I want to do is over pay for something!
I am a Ford loyalist and love Mustangs. I will try to hold off til 2011MY. If the hp isn't there, I'll consider buying a Camaro or hold off and save for a Shelby GT500. - Ouch! Last thing I want to do is over pay for something!
7/23/08, 10:01 AM
#73
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I think that even if Ford hits a homerun with the engine for 2011, it will still be behind the Challenger and Camaro in overall ride refinement and feel. An IRS rear would solve this, but Ford is too stupid to do this.
7/23/08, 10:07 AM
#74
Shelby GT350 Member
Right now young men and women can enjoy a GT and not break the bank. The MSRP goes over 30,000 that will be a big jump and they will lose sales with the economy and fuel what it is.
7/23/08, 10:44 AM
#75
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While every little piece of the market share helps....
they need more homeruns OTHER than just a mustang though.
They need to focus (no pun intended) on the the volume cars moreso.
I'm not saying they'll ignore the mustang or anything (cause they won't by far..)
but the large volume cars need the major attention. The rest will follow.
they need more homeruns OTHER than just a mustang though.
They need to focus (no pun intended) on the the volume cars moreso.
I'm not saying they'll ignore the mustang or anything (cause they won't by far..)
but the large volume cars need the major attention. The rest will follow.
Ford is in poor shape financially. So is GM, and even to a greater degree is Chrysler. JMO, feel free to disagree a 400-hp Mustang, a 425-hp Challenger, a 422-HP Camaro SS will not save any of these companies. As a counterpoint--Toyota does not offer a 300-hp RWD V8, nor a 400-HP V8, nor a 500-HP supercharged V8--the point being Toyota is in a lot better shape than Ford, or Chrysler, or GM. Toyota makes some of the most bland, uninspiring vehicles known to man. But, when you can sell 400,000 of them a year, it makes Toyota a profitable company.
I don't think Ford wants to lose thousands of Mustang sales. But the question of how many sales would Ford lose on Mustang needs context. Would Ford sacrifice 10,000 Mustang sales to gain 300,000 Focus sales--puts the question in context. Being a cynic, my guess is--corporate Ford would make the decision to sacrifice thousands of Mustang sales to gain 300,000 (name your applicance here) sales in a heartbeat.
I'd love to see Ford spend more on developing the Mustang. As a Mustang owner I'm hoping that within the Ford organization there are some strong advocates for the Mustang to keep the product fresh and moving forward. I'd like to see a better product, exterior, interior, and powertrain. (I really was disappointed when the Boss 351 V-10 concept didn't go anywhere. Gas was a lot cheaper then.) I really would like the 5.0 V8 to debut with the 2010 model. At the same time I don't have any illusions that a 400-HP V8 Mustang is going to pull Ford out of the red.
7/23/08, 10:56 AM
#76
I Have No Life
The problem... is that its probably not worth their while to re-engineer the D2C to accomodate the IRS for the next 3 years.
If the 2010 was on the GRWD platform, I'd say yes it would probably have it.
but as stated above, they might as well ride out the current SRA (with more than likely tweaks...)
I mean in the grand scheme of things, its 'ok' for now. Its not great, but it certainly doesn't just fall all over the place.
If the 2010 was on the GRWD platform, I'd say yes it would probably have it.
but as stated above, they might as well ride out the current SRA (with more than likely tweaks...)
I mean in the grand scheme of things, its 'ok' for now. Its not great, but it certainly doesn't just fall all over the place.
7/23/08, 12:19 PM
#77
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Do you think they are stupid or is it they just want to keep the price down to sell more cars? If they make all the improvements everyone wants prices will go up. This means less sales for them.
Right now young men and women can enjoy a GT and not break the bank. The MSRP goes over 30,000 that will be a big jump and they will lose sales with the economy and fuel what it is.
Right now young men and women can enjoy a GT and not break the bank. The MSRP goes over 30,000 that will be a big jump and they will lose sales with the economy and fuel what it is.
The market shows that consumers will pay a bit more for a Mustang if it’s good. The GT500 is a prime example. I am not advocating a 5K increase, but rather a bit of improvements that will bump the MSRP up slightly in order to build a better Mustang.
7/23/08, 12:22 PM
#78
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The problem... is that its probably not worth their while to re-engineer the D2C to accomodate the IRS for the next 3 years.
If the 2010 was on the GRWD platform, I'd say yes it would probably have it.
but as stated above, they might as well ride out the current SRA (with more than likely tweaks...)
I mean in the grand scheme of things, its 'ok' for now. Its not great, but it certainly doesn't just fall all over the place.
If the 2010 was on the GRWD platform, I'd say yes it would probably have it.
but as stated above, they might as well ride out the current SRA (with more than likely tweaks...)
I mean in the grand scheme of things, its 'ok' for now. Its not great, but it certainly doesn't just fall all over the place.
7/23/08, 12:45 PM
#80
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Yup--the focus is on volume sellers. Eric asks if Ford wants to lose thousands of Mustang buyers. And Whammer points out the Ford is in terrible financial straights.
Ford is in poor shape financially. So is GM, and even to a greater degree is Chrysler. JMO, feel free to disagree a 400-hp Mustang, a 425-hp Challenger, a 422-HP Camaro SS will not save any of these companies. As a counterpoint--Toyota does not offer a 300-hp RWD V8, nor a 400-HP V8, nor a 500-HP supercharged V8--the point being Toyota is in a lot better shape than Ford, or Chrysler, or GM. Toyota makes some of the most bland, uninspiring vehicles known to man. But, when you can sell 400,000 of them a year, it makes Toyota a profitable company.
I don't think Ford wants to lose thousands of Mustang sales. But the question of how many sales would Ford lose on Mustang needs context. Would Ford sacrifice 10,000 Mustang sales to gain 300,000 Focus sales--puts the question in context. Being a cynic, my guess is--corporate Ford would make the decision to sacrifice thousands of Mustang sales to gain 300,000 (name your applicance here) sales in a heartbeat.
I'd love to see Ford spend more on developing the Mustang. As a Mustang owner I'm hoping that within the Ford organization there are some strong advocates for the Mustang to keep the product fresh and moving forward. I'd like to see a better product, exterior, interior, and powertrain. (I really was disappointed when the Boss 351 V-10 concept didn't go anywhere. Gas was a lot cheaper then.) I really would like the 5.0 V8 to debut with the 2010 model. At the same time I don't have any illusions that a 400-HP V8 Mustang is going to pull Ford out of the red.
Ford is in poor shape financially. So is GM, and even to a greater degree is Chrysler. JMO, feel free to disagree a 400-hp Mustang, a 425-hp Challenger, a 422-HP Camaro SS will not save any of these companies. As a counterpoint--Toyota does not offer a 300-hp RWD V8, nor a 400-HP V8, nor a 500-HP supercharged V8--the point being Toyota is in a lot better shape than Ford, or Chrysler, or GM. Toyota makes some of the most bland, uninspiring vehicles known to man. But, when you can sell 400,000 of them a year, it makes Toyota a profitable company.
I don't think Ford wants to lose thousands of Mustang sales. But the question of how many sales would Ford lose on Mustang needs context. Would Ford sacrifice 10,000 Mustang sales to gain 300,000 Focus sales--puts the question in context. Being a cynic, my guess is--corporate Ford would make the decision to sacrifice thousands of Mustang sales to gain 300,000 (name your applicance here) sales in a heartbeat.
I'd love to see Ford spend more on developing the Mustang. As a Mustang owner I'm hoping that within the Ford organization there are some strong advocates for the Mustang to keep the product fresh and moving forward. I'd like to see a better product, exterior, interior, and powertrain. (I really was disappointed when the Boss 351 V-10 concept didn't go anywhere. Gas was a lot cheaper then.) I really would like the 5.0 V8 to debut with the 2010 model. At the same time I don't have any illusions that a 400-HP V8 Mustang is going to pull Ford out of the red.
Chrysler still has money- but not like GM. And Ford is out of money, they spent it all in the last couple of years trying to right the ship.
I don't want any of them to fail or go under.
This latest round of pony wars is good for all of us. I honestly feel that Ford will do something with the Mustang to compete hard against the Challenger and the Camaro. If they don't then I won't have any problem walking into a Dodge dealer and getting the Challenger.