UAW workers in Chicago reject Ford deal, strike possible
10/14/11, 02:11 PM
#41
A Man Just Needs Some....
Originally Posted by UnrealFord
Ford UAW reversing decision.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...tml?cmpid=yhoo
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...tml?cmpid=yhoo
10/14/11, 02:12 PM
#42
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I always find it interesting when corporate elites are taken to task for bloated salaries and benefits packages, an indignant wail of class warfare goes out. "Those worthies earned every penny of their 8-digit salaries and ten-digit bonuses to pay for their next Alpine chateau, mistress and Ferrari. But don't worry, it will all miraculously trickle down to the commoners, errr, workers." Sure, eventually, as but a trickle.
Then, in the very next breath, they decry the bloated salaries and benefits packages of the working slob union man trying to pay the mortgage and feed the family, and hopefully every few years, actually be able to afford a new(er) car or truck. "These lazy, fat-cat union workers are the bane of our civilization."
Basically, there has been a class war for the past 30-40 years and the rich are winning, spectacularly, as clearly indicated by the immense and accelerating concentration of wealth that would cause a Gilded Age plutocrat to blush. Both the Tea Party and Occupiers/99% are in many ways opposite sides of this more general coin, though I think the latter are somewhat closer to the true causes of this lower/middle class economic stagnation and decline than the former.
Then, in the very next breath, they decry the bloated salaries and benefits packages of the working slob union man trying to pay the mortgage and feed the family, and hopefully every few years, actually be able to afford a new(er) car or truck. "These lazy, fat-cat union workers are the bane of our civilization."
Basically, there has been a class war for the past 30-40 years and the rich are winning, spectacularly, as clearly indicated by the immense and accelerating concentration of wealth that would cause a Gilded Age plutocrat to blush. Both the Tea Party and Occupiers/99% are in many ways opposite sides of this more general coin, though I think the latter are somewhat closer to the true causes of this lower/middle class economic stagnation and decline than the former.
10/14/11, 02:32 PM
#43
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Im Ford UAW, Im not a Fat, uneducated, etc etc and dont appreciate many post by people.Most of the general public only hear and read whats in the press, 50% of the Union in SOME plants are rejecting it, The workers rejecting the contract have over 30 years, the workers like myself need 15 more years to work and dont feel the same but have to hear and read nasty of ANTI-UNION comments..
My plant went from 6,000 employees to 490 today, they are offering bringing back 462 jobs, so of coarse our plant will most likely be in favor of the contract.
My plant went from 6,000 employees to 490 today, they are offering bringing back 462 jobs, so of coarse our plant will most likely be in favor of the contract.
Last edited by UnrealFord; 10/14/11 at 02:35 PM.
10/14/11, 02:35 PM
#44
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I do not think most have been nasty at all. Its the real world and people that do not want to work for the offered amount have options to succeed else where. All the guys backing the union I have seen on here do not seem to be having any problems paying the bills. All of them have a nice car and 72k or so year is light years above the US average.
also people are not anti worker.. its the union thats making waves. Union workers want a raise? DUMP THE UNION and pocket the dues and fees.
also people are not anti worker.. its the union thats making waves. Union workers want a raise? DUMP THE UNION and pocket the dues and fees.
Last edited by Flagstang; 10/14/11 at 02:40 PM.
10/14/11, 02:40 PM
#45
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The UAW and Ford received a boost of momentum for a tentative contract as 78.9% of workers at Ford’s plant in Flat Rock voted in favor of the agreement.
According to UAW Local 3000, which represents workers at AutoAlliance International, 1,190 workers voted yes while 318 voted against the proposed agreement with Ford.
With those votes included, the agreement is now passing narrowly with 50.8% voting yes and 49.2% voting against, according to the UAW Ford Department’s Facebook page.The UAW said 36% of Ford’s 41,000 hourly workers have voted with 6,271 voting yes and 6,085 voting against
According to UAW Local 3000, which represents workers at AutoAlliance International, 1,190 workers voted yes while 318 voted against the proposed agreement with Ford.
With those votes included, the agreement is now passing narrowly with 50.8% voting yes and 49.2% voting against, according to the UAW Ford Department’s Facebook page.The UAW said 36% of Ford’s 41,000 hourly workers have voted with 6,271 voting yes and 6,085 voting against
Last edited by UnrealFord; 10/14/11 at 03:00 PM.
10/14/11, 02:41 PM
#46
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I do not think most have been nasty at all. Its the real world and people that do not want to work for the offered amount have options to succeed else where. All the guys backing the union I have seen on here do not seem to be having any problems paying the bills. All of them have a nice car and 72k or so year is light years above the US average.
also people are not anti worker.. its the union thats making waves. Union workers want a raise? DUMP THE UNION and pocket the dues and fees.
also people are not anti worker.. its the union thats making waves. Union workers want a raise? DUMP THE UNION and pocket the dues and fees.
10/14/11, 02:47 PM
#47
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I would guess you are right. The people in the UAW are not the UAW. The people are people and the UAW is a middle man taking a piece of the pie. They are not really attacking the workers but the middle man.
10/14/11, 10:17 PM
#48
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Well I still feel salary + some kind of incentive is the best way. It gets workers and mgmt working for the same goal.
My best years were salary + commish. I knew my bills were mostly taken care of by salary, then I could let it rip and get a bump from commission add on. I didn't have to wait for mgmt and union to give me a raise. And therefore nobody capped my pay either. I had a say in it every month.
There was salary + monthly commission, profit sharing for retirement, and year end bonus based on profit sharing. There were some years when everything came together and the whole company watched expenses and sales boomed - and so did the commission, retirement, and bonuses. Other times weren't as plentiful, but the salary was still strong and people still had an incentive to watch costs.
Though not shareholders (private family owned large business), it made you feel like one.
(That all happened after we workers voted Teamsters out in early 80's. Fierce competition for motivated, qualified workers kept compensation in balance.
Free enterprise at work.
)
My best years were salary + commish. I knew my bills were mostly taken care of by salary, then I could let it rip and get a bump from commission add on. I didn't have to wait for mgmt and union to give me a raise. And therefore nobody capped my pay either. I had a say in it every month.
There was salary + monthly commission, profit sharing for retirement, and year end bonus based on profit sharing. There were some years when everything came together and the whole company watched expenses and sales boomed - and so did the commission, retirement, and bonuses. Other times weren't as plentiful, but the salary was still strong and people still had an incentive to watch costs.
Though not shareholders (private family owned large business), it made you feel like one.
(That all happened after we workers voted Teamsters out in early 80's. Fierce competition for motivated, qualified workers kept compensation in balance.
Free enterprise at work.
)
Last edited by cdynaco; 10/14/11 at 10:28 PM.
10/14/11, 10:25 PM
#49
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Well what was said before is where it goes beyond collective bargaining, and moves into union socialism and all the politics crap. And that's what makes people anti-union.
Unions should stay in the realm of collective bargaining. Because that's what serves the economy and labor as a check and balance. Nobody with total control acts in everyone's best interest for very long. Checks and balances keeps the teeter totter relatively balanced - or within range of balance. That's when the economy zooms and the tide raises the most boats.
When one side has too much power (mgmt vs labor, conservative vs liberal, etc.) is when everything goes to the toilet.
Last edited by cdynaco; 10/14/11 at 10:31 PM.
10/14/11, 11:19 PM
#50
Meh. Everybody is trying to get their nut doing the least amount of work as possible. Management and worker. Its built into us. That's why commie socialism never works. Everyone wants an advantage for themselves.
Gilded age? There have been haves and have nots throughout history and throughout the world. The difference here is that with work, talent, or sheer determination you can change your stars and become a have. But some people would take that away and make us all have littles. It disgusts me. **** your collective salvation ****.
Gilded age? There have been haves and have nots throughout history and throughout the world. The difference here is that with work, talent, or sheer determination you can change your stars and become a have. But some people would take that away and make us all have littles. It disgusts me. **** your collective salvation ****.
10/14/11, 11:32 PM
#51
Meh. Everybody is trying to get their nut doing the least amount of work as possible. Management and worker. Its built into us. That's why commie socialism never works. Everyone wants an advantage for themselves.
Gilded age? There have been haves and have nots throughout history and throughout the world. The difference here is that with work, talent, or sheer determination you can change your stars and become a have. But some people would take that away and make us all have littles. It disgusts me. **** your collective salvation ****.
Gilded age? There have been haves and have nots throughout history and throughout the world. The difference here is that with work, talent, or sheer determination you can change your stars and become a have. But some people would take that away and make us all have littles. It disgusts me. **** your collective salvation ****.
10/15/11, 12:43 AM
#52
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You mean that numerical increase that doesn't even keep up with the increase in taxes and inflation?
Actually government created the SUV trend with its CAFE laws. Customers wanted big vehicles so they started purchasing the remaining big vehicles and automakers responded to that trend.
As to unions, they are usually best for those running the unions.
If you're ever in Lincolnshire Illinois, stop by and see the place the UAW built for itself. As far as I know there isn't an automotive plant within 50 miles of the place, but I figure some UAW officials must have some nice houses nearby.
As to unions, they are usually best for those running the unions.
If you're ever in Lincolnshire Illinois, stop by and see the place the UAW built for itself. As far as I know there isn't an automotive plant within 50 miles of the place, but I figure some UAW officials must have some nice houses nearby.
10/15/11, 11:23 AM
#53
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I always find it interesting when corporate elites are taken to task for bloated salaries and benefits packages, an indignant wail of class warfare goes out. "Those worthies earned every penny of their 8-digit salaries and ten-digit bonuses to pay for their next Alpine chateau, mistress and Ferrari. But don't worry, it will all miraculously trickle down to the commoners, errr, workers." Sure, eventually, as but a trickle.
Then, in the very next breath, they decry the bloated salaries and benefits packages of the working slob union man trying to pay the mortgage and feed the family, and hopefully every few years, actually be able to afford a new(er) car or truck. "These lazy, fat-cat union workers are the bane of our civilization."
Basically, there has been a class war for the past 30-40 years and the rich are winning, spectacularly, as clearly indicated by the immense and accelerating concentration of wealth that would cause a Gilded Age plutocrat to blush. Both the Tea Party and Occupiers/99% are in many ways opposite sides of this more general coin, though I think the latter are somewhat closer to the true causes of this lower/middle class economic stagnation and decline than the former.
Then, in the very next breath, they decry the bloated salaries and benefits packages of the working slob union man trying to pay the mortgage and feed the family, and hopefully every few years, actually be able to afford a new(er) car or truck. "These lazy, fat-cat union workers are the bane of our civilization."
Basically, there has been a class war for the past 30-40 years and the rich are winning, spectacularly, as clearly indicated by the immense and accelerating concentration of wealth that would cause a Gilded Age plutocrat to blush. Both the Tea Party and Occupiers/99% are in many ways opposite sides of this more general coin, though I think the latter are somewhat closer to the true causes of this lower/middle class economic stagnation and decline than the former.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
The liberal media is reporting how "organic" and justly deserved these
protests are. All the while talking about the racist teabaggers. Have
you seen their demands?
Tea Party (you know, the voilent, aggressive racists):
1. Stop spending what you don't have
2. Go back to the constitution and follow it
3. Stop taking our money (taxes)
Occupy Wall St (peaceful... all shots of violence and defecation on police cars is computer animation done by Faux News):
1. Raise minimum wage to $20 an hour
2. Single payer universal health care
3. Living wage for unemployed
4. Free college
5. Get rid of fossil fuels
6. Spend $1T on infrastructure NOW
7. Spend $1T on restoring the ecology
8. Racial and gender equal rights
9. Open borders
10. American elections made paper ballots
11. Forgive ALL debt (mortgages, credit card debt, student loans)
12. Outlaw all credit reporting agencies
13. Allow all workers to unionize
Wow. What do you think will happen if we raise the minimum wage to $20/hr? All the jobs WILL BE IN CHINA, no questions. Single payer
health care is failing everywhere else... http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...on__98467.html ...so badly
that they want to go to a privatized version. Living wage for
unemployed means unemployment insurance will pay $20/hr indefinitely.
Why would anyone work? Free college. No more scholarships, no more
trying in high school, why? You're going to college no matter what.
$1T in infrastructure, so now our deficit is $2.6T for this year. $1T
on restoring the ecology, so now our deficit is $3.6T for this
year--total debt now is $20.3T. Racial and gender equal rights....do
you think this means get RID of affirmative action, or more of it??
American elections made paper ballots. We did this...remember Al Gore
and Bush with the ******* looking crosseyed at the ballots after the 5th
recount? Forgive ALL debt. So what would prevent people from going
into default? If I saw my neighbor get his debt forgiven and I'm
renting...why wouldn't I buy a house and not pay? The problem is that
this will be an ongoing thing. Just like unemployment, people love
something for nothing so they stay on it. Outlaw all credit reporting
agencies. This means that loans can no longer go to those who aren't
risky. This means we will have more housing and credit bubbles like the
community reinvestment act which prevented banks from assessing risk.
Allow all workers to unionize....well since the unions are backing this
movement, this is their little addition. It is like when Eric Cartman went
back to the Jeffersonian ages and added "free ice cream for everyone" at
the end of the Declaration of Independence "Day".
10/15/11, 11:47 AM
#54
Originally Posted by MARZ
So what's your answer? Have our "financially-frugal, trustworthy" (LOL) government kick down the door and TAKE their wealth and give to the have nots (assuming it doesn't wind up getting blown on more Solyndras)?! This is America... if you don't like where you're at, do something about it. Don't get pregnant at sixteen. Don't drop out of school. Rather than "occupy Wall Street," get a job! The unemployment rate among college educated Americans is roughly half the nation's overall average.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
The liberal media is reporting how "organic" and justly deserved these
protests are. All the while talking about the racist teabaggers. Have
you seen their demands?
Tea Party (you know, the voilent, aggressive racists):
1. Stop spending what you don't have
2. Go back to the constitution and follow it
3. Stop taking our money (taxes)
Occupy Wall St (peaceful... all shots of violence and defecation on police cars is computer animation done by Faux News):
1. Raise minimum wage to $20 an hour
2. Single payer universal health care
3. Living wage for unemployed
4. Free college
5. Get rid of fossil fuels
6. Spend $1T on infrastructure NOW
7. Spend $1T on restoring the ecology
8. Racial and gender equal rights
9. Open borders
10. American elections made paper ballots
11. Forgive ALL debt (mortgages, credit card debt, student loans)
12. Outlaw all credit reporting agencies
13. Allow all workers to unionize
Wow. What do you think will happen if we raise the minimum wage to $20/hr? All the jobs WILL BE IN CHINA, no questions. Single payer
health care is failing everywhere else... http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...on__98467.html ...so badly
that they want to go to a privatized version. Living wage for
unemployed means unemployment insurance will pay $20/hr indefinitely.
Why would anyone work? Free college. No more scholarships, no more
trying in high school, why? You're going to college no matter what.
$1T in infrastructure, so now our deficit is $2.6T for this year. $1T
on restoring the ecology, so now our deficit is $3.6T for this
year--total debt now is $20.3T. Racial and gender equal rights....do
you think this means get RID of affirmative action, or more of it??
American elections made paper ballots. We did this...remember Al Gore
and Bush with the ******* looking crosseyed at the ballots after the 5th
recount? Forgive ALL debt. So what would prevent people from going
into default? If I saw my neighbor get his debt forgiven and I'm
renting...why wouldn't I buy a house and not pay? The problem is that
this will be an ongoing thing. Just like unemployment, people love
something for nothing so they stay on it. Outlaw all credit reporting
agencies. This means that loans can no longer go to those who aren't
risky. This means we will have more housing and credit bubbles like the
community reinvestment act which prevented banks from assessing risk.
Allow all workers to unionize....well since the unions are backing this
movement, this is their little addition. It is like when Eric Cartman went
back to the Jeffersonian ages and added "free ice cream for everyone" at
the end of the Declaration of Independence "Day".
10/15/11, 01:15 PM
#55
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This is America... if you don't like where you're at, do something about it. Don't get pregnant at sixteen. Don't drop out of school. Rather than "occupy Wall Street," get a job! The unemployment rate among college educated Americans is roughly half the nation's overall average.
10/15/11, 01:19 PM
#56
A Man Just Needs Some....
Originally Posted by 11SHELBYGT500
...got halfway thru this, will read the rest tomorrow.
And God bless collective bargaining.
10/15/11, 01:29 PM
#58
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