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Old Dec 24, 2008 | 08:34 PM
  #21  
edumspeed's Avatar
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That thing is HORRIBLE!
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Old Dec 25, 2008 | 01:19 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by max2000jp
Which one of the CTS's competitors has a V8?

Cadillac is way ahead of Liconln in being competitive with Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi.


Though Lincoln seems to be fast catching up with its new interior efforts - and I think the new front end waterfall grill treatment is a good signature look that they should to stick with.

But the MKZ needs more profile sculpturing...and this MKT SUV is anything but elegant looking...and hardly necessary for Lincoln, at least just yet.

Now THIS is the car Lincoln needs to build to steal thunder from the CTS...and to be taken REALLY seriously again >>



True statement.

Last edited by Hollywood_North GT; Dec 25, 2008 at 01:22 AM.
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Old Dec 25, 2008 | 09:09 AM
  #23  
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I agree.
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Old Dec 25, 2008 | 09:15 AM
  #24  
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Now that's a lot better! I still find the front end too exaggerated, but that could work w a little tweaking.
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Old Dec 25, 2008 | 09:26 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by max2000jp
Which one of the CTS's competitors has a V8?

Cadillac is way ahead of Liconln in being competitive with Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi.
I'd be willing to bet the same question has been asked within the halls of Cadillac many times, and that kind of constipated thinking is likely a large part of the reason the 'revival' that started with the CTS hasn't spread. Assuming we're going to go along with the idea that this is still squarely a 3 Series competitior the question I have to ask is, exactly which engine would you suggest Cadillac offer in it's models to counter the noticeably faster models, V series aside, offered by Nissan in the G37 and more importantly BMW with it's 335?

They could crank the amperage on the HF V6, but then mileage will suffer for little real gain and they'll still be hardpressed to come close to the performance of the lighter and torquier BMW. They could use a low pressure TTV6 like BMW, if they had one, but while such an engine is planned the truth is that they are almost certainly four or five years away from a realistic debut date since that is roughly how far behind Ford they are in terms of development on this engine.

As for any argument over whether or not they need to counter these vehicles, GM obviously believes that they do since they have announced plans for a TT V6 version as mentioned above. GM's one, existing option to counter the rivals mentioned above is a naturally aspirated LS series V8 which, by this point, woulod be an easy and relatively inexpensive slide under-hood. And once could hardly argue that GM lacks production capacity to offer such a vehicle. Then again, a penchant for finding a way to play second fiddle even with their best cars no matter how simple and logical the solution is has arguably been a large part of how GM has managed to get where they are today.

If we view the CTS as the budding 5-Series competitor GM is blatantly preparing the car to be, particularly given the increasing girth of the CTS and Cadillacs desire to release an Alpha based 3-Series competitor, then the lack of a V8 is absolutely inexcusable without need for explanation.

As for Cadillac compared to Lincoln. At this point, with the future of GM dire at best, it indeed seems we'll look back some day at the end of Cadillac's era under GM and say that Caddy, as we once knew them, reached for the stars and missed. And we'll likely still be criticizing a Ford-owned Lincoln for something, even if their long overdue renaissance has begun, but at least we'll be able to criticize a Ford owned Lincoln. Put more simply, while it may be romantic that GM has been willing to roll the dice on so many models, the CTS easily the most complete vision of any of them, the truth of the matter is that GM has still missed the bullseye by at least a little on even their best efforts and typically show no understanding of how or why and remains typical GM-slow to do anything about it even when they do. And that is at least as much of the reason why GM is going broke as anything else.

It would be nice to see Lincoln bite the bullet and go full bore for the competition with a return to a proper Lincoln lineup, and by all accounts it seems Lincoln has long been contemplating the same, even dipping their foot into the proverbial water with the LS sedan only to remove it when fortunes looked a bit bleak. Until such time as Ford is ready and able to commit to such a revival in a manner which is far removed from the half-hearted and somewhat schitzophrenic overall effort Cadillac has put forth I would rather they not risk that gamble at all. Boring? Yeah. But then they appear likely to still be here in a form....and under ownership.....we will recognize in five years.

Last edited by jsaylor; Dec 25, 2008 at 09:28 AM.
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Old Dec 25, 2008 | 05:46 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by jsaylor
...the truth of the matter is that GM has still missed the bullseye by at least a little on even their best efforts and typically show no understanding of how or why and remains typical GM-slow to do anything about it even when they do.
This is just stealing defeat from the jaws of victory, pure and simple.
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Old Dec 25, 2008 | 06:53 PM
  #27  
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All I know is I haven't looked at a Lincoln and Said **** That's a Nice Car, or had the desire to own a Lincoln since the demise of the Mark VIII. However I've sat and stared at the New CTS' and XLR's especially, because I think they are Beautiful cars.
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