Moosetang

No, it is not.

JRT

No what is not, bankruptcy or the UAW part?

JRT

I see, yes it is.
The UAW is the direct cause of all of the problems.
I am all for better wages, benefits, and working conditions, but the unions are only hurting America.

I was an electrician for 18 years before I got into the IT field and I was in the union for a few of those years.
I know firsthand that union workers are lazy and expect more money to do less.

Look at the shape that GM is in because of the contracts that they made with the UAW, the unions should be ashamed of themselves.
They are bloated and greedy entities that don’t care about the workers, only putting money in their coffers.

Hollywood_North GT

True, but for too many years GM built cars that were irrelevant, too. So they need to shoulder a big chunk of the responsibility here. It ain't just the legacy and union costs.

red454

It is not good out there for automotive manufacturing. And the shock waves are already being felt by the supplier base. Many will not survive.

The housing market took a dump. Then banks. What is next and when will it stop...?

max2000jp

Look at how much the UAW legacy costs per vehicle. As you will see, the domestics are at a huge disadvantage compare to the imports. The UAW is a big factor in why the Big 3 is failing.

JRT

You are very much correct.
GM has no real vision and made crappy cars with crappy union contracts.
I would agree that they are all to blame.

Hollywood_North GT

I'm not saying that they're all to blame, nor do I believe that they're making crappy cars now. I would argue the current Corvette and Cadillac CTS are two of the best vehicles GM has ever made...and two of the best to ever come out of North America.

jsaylor

There is no question that the US government is highly unlikely to allow GM to simply disappear, but there is a wide open world of possibilities when the question stops being 'can GM survive' and instead becomes 'what will a resurrected GM look like' once the government has gotten hold.

Chrysler will no doubt start chewing the ears off of every politician they can find claiming their right to a fiscal relief package if GM gets one. And while Ford looks like they may be able to survive the turmoil without massive government help, there can be little doubt they wont simply sit by while a bankrupt GM gets gifted (or loaned) into a better position than they themselves are in. If there is going to be a pie everybody is going to want a piece, and that is a problem.

The truth is that the US government cannot simply to continue to act like it has bottomless pockets, and that means somebody is going to have to get clever to figure this whole mess out since the sum of money necessary to really fix GM and Chrysler...forget Ford for a moment.....is likely a 12 digit figure.

There are so many ways this could go down that venturing a guess is pointless. But, if we have to start somewhere I think the first question is whether a revived GM will continue to remain an autonomous company.

Whammer

Ford burned through 7.7 BILLION from it's cash reserves in the 3rd quarter alone! Analyists say that if this continues Ford will be out of cash by 2010.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27593678/

Hollywood_North GT

I fully agree. And I honestly don't know. Might Cadillac become its "own brand"? Will GM be forced to pare down to two marques (which I think is in its best interests)? Who knows...?

I agree...Chrysler is going to whine mercilessly if GM and Ford get more bailout money and they don't...which I can understand. That said, I don't think Chrysler is a particularly relevant brand anymore. As much as I love the new Challenger, there isn't a single other product in their lineup right now that I would even remotely consider...though I suspect Jeep will find a new home - as it probably should - no matter what goes down.

No, the U.S. government cannot continue to act like it has bottomless pockets, I agree. However, one might make the argument that if it can find the money to bailout Wall St., it can certainly find the money to bailout one of the last bastions of manufacturing left in North America; one which directly and peripherally employs a GREAT many taxpayers.

We've had our disagreements before, but you make an excellent point there. How will this all play out? Will another manufacturer step in and buy up GM's blue blood marques? Will a smaller GM (with perhaps only Chevy and Caddy left) merge with another automaker...or stand alone? It's really impossible to say right now because this is a largely unprecedented situation.

My feeling is that GM still has too much duplication in its lines. No need to have the same CUV across Chevy, Saturn, Pontiac and/or Buick. A forced bankruptcy might enable the General to jettison the unnecessary marques once and for all - paring down and recombining its best vehicles along more tightly-focused lines.

They simply don't need Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn and Cadillac for a domestic lineup anymore.

Hollywood_North GT

Yep, Ford is in better shape than GM...but not that much better. They'll need a bailout, too.

Hollywood_North GT

Ford reported a net loss in the third quarter of only $129M...HOWEVER, the company more than tripled its cash burn rate, leaving it with just under $19B in cash reserves. At that rate of burn, Ford only has a little over seven months of cash left to stay in business. Fortunately, it does have a line of credit that could finance its operations well into 2010.

Cutting workers and cutting its supplier base in half will help, but without either a) a miraculous economic turnaround (a virtual impossibility within the next 24 months); or b) a government bailout - it's unlikely they will survive more than two more years without either some sort of merger or a declaration of bankruptcy.

Evil_Capri

Moving to 'Other Fords' as this is general FMC discussion and not specific to the 2010 Mustang, but will leave a link for a week.

V8Mike

I was thinking about picking up a little bargain-basement Ford stock. For less than $2 a share I don't mind taking a little bit of a gamble on a very long-term basis. Especially if a bailout is forthcoming and Chrysler or GM fails, it will leave Ford in a pretty good position long-term.