Zastava_101

At least here in Milwaukee, Ford is still selling the old boxy Escape along the new one. And old Escape has huge rebates on it, as much as $7,000. Heck, even the new 2013 Escape has $3,000-$3,500 rebates on it.

Flagstang

I blame this ad for the best third quarter ever

http://youtu.be/Ca-lV3LRxEY

MARZ

Here in Eastern Tennessee, there are several "One Ford" Escapes on the road... Focuses, too (I've seen one or two 2013 Fusions as well). The above sales statistics were from June, July and August, respectively. What were the rebates on the 2013 Escape during those months? Of those sales numbers, which increased exponentially after the release of the new 2013 Escape, how many were 2012 models? Is it safe to assume that the rebates were in response to all the recalls the Escape has faced of late? Further, which vehicles have garnered more praise in terms of styling and dynamics of late than Ford's new vehicles, including the Focus, Escape and Fusion? Where Ford's vehicles used to be perennial underachievers when, say, Car and Driver or Motor Trend would rank them among their competition, the new Ford models are consistently being chosen as the top one or two vehicles in their respective classes. After getting to experience these automobiles first-hand at Ford's Track Even in August, I can say that Ford's definitely doing it right, in my opinion.

I know you're reaching and trying as hard as you can to label the new "One Ford" models sales failures, but, so far, there is absolutely no evidence of that. Maybe we can reconvene next year and, if Ford sales plummet, you can tell me "told you so." Until then, devoid of any evidence to support your position(s), you really have nothing to go on, in my opinion.

Zastava_101

Well, let's take the new Focus as an example. How is that car a success globally?
In Europe, Focus was always the second best seller, right behind Volkswagen Golf, and the sales difference between them was never huge. Last year, Focus fell to the #4 place in its class and it was outsold not only by Golf, but also by Opel Astra and Renault Megane.
And not only that – Focus is now being outsold by Golf by a wide margin. Volkswagen sold over 460,000 Golfs in Europe last year (and that’s not counting Jetta, which is pretty much a sedan version of Golf) and Ford moved only 250,000 Focuses.
Over the first eight month of this year, Volkswagen sold 301,000 Golfs; Ford sold 160,000 Focuses. In August alone, even pricey cars like Audi A4, BMW 3-Series and Volkswagen Passat outsold Focus in Europe.
In the USA, my local Ford dealer here in Milwaukee has many 2012 and 2013 Focuses. Rebates vary from $2,000 for cheaper models to almost $4,500 for more expensive models.
Not only that – last year, 45% of all Focuses sold went to the fleet sales.

Now, how is that better than what Focus has been doing with the USA-specific 2008-2011 model?

It’s difficult to say at this time what % new vs old Escape have on sales; I guess we’ll have to wait for 6 months or so until the old boxy model is completely sold out and then compare numbers.

Do the media love new Fords? Yes, no doubt about that, but that doesn’t always translate to higher sales. Just ask Mazda.

I just don’t like that Ford is playing with a winning formula. Last year Escape was the best-selling small SUV/Crossover and Fusion was the best-selling domestic car and third best-selling mid-size car (Fusion even outsold the great Honda Accord last year). When you have successful products like that – you play it safe, continue to improve product, but don’t change it drastically. Ford should’ve learned that not only from Volkswagen’s and Toyota’s examples (which are the most successful car companied in the world), but also from their own mistakes in the past (remember how a 1996 model pretty much killed Taurus?)

Evil_Capri

http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/...uropean-losses

Zastava_101

Jason, Ford made $1.7 billion profit in Q3 of 2009 - and that was without any global product (at least between the USA and Europe).
Global products lowered the cost of production since; yet, Ford still makes the same amount of $$$ as when they developed and producted different cars for each continent.
I mean, Volkswagen went global and has one major platform for most of their models. They made over $20 billion in profits last year. Ford went global, production costs went down; yet, profits remained the same ...

Like I have said it before - I really really hope I'm completely wrong about Ford's global products because I really wanna for Ford to be a success over the long run.

Evil_Capri

What was the ATP and operating margin in 2009?!

Zastava_101

I couldn’t find numbers, but I’m assuming there weren’t as good as the 2012 numbers were?

So, why is the profit still the same despite lower production and development costs?

Evil_Capri

Could be many factors. Take for instance the pre-tax profit of Q3 2009 ($357 Million) vs. pre-tax profit of Q3 2012 ($2.2 Billion). Or changes in tax rate as mentioned in the article I posted earlier . .

Net income was also vastly different between the two quarters. $997 Million in Q3 2009 vs $1.6 Billion in Q3 2012

cdynaco

2.48% annual inflation rate. Only slightly above the 5 yr CPI-U of 2.09% (208.49 - 231.407 BLS).

StangMahn

you have to look at more than just take home profits. There's a lot that goes into these types of things. If they know they're going to make more in a quarter than they expected, then perhaps they spend a bit more on advertising, or maybe the start offering larger rebates because they can afford to.

MARZ

Are you saying that the Focus example above proves that One Ford is a failure? I thought you were questioning whether or not markets such as the U.S. would accept the European-looking "One Ford" vehicles, yet you cite European sales data?

Okay, I'll bite. While this data is from September, it's germane to this thread and shows Ford is doing as well as one could hope considering the circumstances in that region;

Ford Fiesta Best Selling Small Car in Europe; Ford No. 2 Best-Selling Passenger Car Brand

"Ford Fiesta was Europe's top-selling small car, and No. 2 best-selling car overall, in September, the third quarter and through the first nine months 2012, according to figures released by JATO Dynamics

Ford confirmed as No. 2 best-selling passenger car brand in Europe for September (JATO, ACEA), the third quarter (JATO), and for September year-to-date 2012 (JATO, ACEA)

COLOGNE, Germany, October 19, 2012 – The Ford Fiesta again was Europe's best-selling small car in September, the third quarter and for the first nine months of 2012, according to the latest figures from the world's leading provider of automotive data intelligence, JATO Dynamics.*

According to JATO Dynamics, 31,468 Ford Fiestas were sold in September, 66,603 in the third quarter, and – with 238,345 units sold in the first nine months – it was more than 27,000 units ahead of its nearest small car rival. Including all cars, Fiesta was the No. 2 best-selling car in Europe, and Ford’s best-selling car, in September, the third quarter and year-to-date.

“The figures speak for themselves. Fiesta is a fantastic car and continues to attract customers across Europe,” said Roelant de Waard, vice president, Marketing, Sales and Service, Ford of Europe. “And the new Fiesta is just rolling out to our European dealers, coming with even more advanced technologies, including the much acclaimed 1.0-litre EcoBoost engine, the International Engine of the Year.”

In news releases dated October 18 and October 16, respectively, both JATO Dynamics and ACEA** confirmed Ford as Europe's No. 2 best-selling passenger car brand in September and the first nine months 2012, as well as in the third quarter (JATO)."

http://media.ford.com/news/fordfiest...ercarbrand.htm

Six months? With sales numbers being as strong as they've been for Escape since the 2013 model's release, including a record August, I have a hard time believing it's solely because of the "boxy" model.

"DEARBORN, MI- Ford Motor Co. today credited its newest model as a driving force for the company’s 13 percent sales increase in August.

The Ford Escape -- redesigned for the 2013 model-year -- experienced its best August sales ever, according to the Dearborn-based automaker. Sales of the compact utility totaled 28,188 vehicles, a 37 percent increase versus a year ago."

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...les_drive.html

Zastava_101

I wouldn't call the global Focus the failure, but Europe-specific Mk. 2 Focus was a much more successful car than the global Mk. 3 Focus (I used numbers in one of my previous posts).

I'm not sure where Ford is getting their numbers from re: Fiesta vs the competition, but according to this link (it's written in Serbian), Fiesta's lead over the second place Volkswagen Polo was only ~2,000 units by the end of the August. I find it very hard to believe that Fiesta outsold Polo by additional 25,000 units in September and October.
http://auto.blog.rs/blog/auto/vesti/...-tokom-avgusta

Regarding Escape, like I have said, we'll have to wait to see how well the global model will sell on its own. Because right now, it has a big help from the old boxy Escape that sells with huge discounts.