oatmeal

I gotta give him props for getting involved and working things out. I just finished making my box, but I had a pro install it. Now I am trying to figure out how to get rid of the alternator "whine" that I have. The install was done real nice (very stock looking) but I have total regrets for spending $500 to get it done.

My box is essentially square, but has an angle cutout to fit around the wheel well where the shaker1000 subs normally go. Much smaller than his solution, but I was only doing one 10" sub, not the two he has.

05GT-O.C.D.

Alternator whine is usually a bad ground. Start by making sure that your RCA's are run down the opposite door sill as your primary wire. If that doesn't solve it, ground elsewhere. I don't think anyone's had a problem gounding to that crossmember that supports your package tray by the rear seat. Good luck

oatmeal

Thanks for the tips. When I get some time I am going to try and ground to that cross member thing in the trunk that you were talking about. It shouldn't be too hard at all and it is out of sight and away from the gas tank too. It doesn't quite give me a headache but it is really horrible to listen to at low volumes. I drown it out at ear bleeding levels most of the time. I can't recomend the place I went to at all. They did a good job running wires, putting them out of sight etc, but they just made no effort to try and fix this problem. They blamed either my equipment (which I gave them to install) or my cars electrical system. I really don't believe either. But they could have easily hooked up another amp if they thought it was mine. Or tried a different ground as was mentioned. I can't wait to figure out what the issue was, and then go back and rub it in their face.

vc4life

i would be willing to bet that the power is measured at 14.5 volts or higher and last time i checked most car electrical systems only run at about 13.7 or less so you will not get that full amount of power from that amp

Purple Hayz

No offense, but your comments remind me of some of the women I dated in High School (a telling analogy, by your standards). I.e., you strike me as one of those form over function guys. You've made two posts in this thread, both of which reference the need for a speaker setup that LOOKS good. Tell me, my sensory conflated chum, do you buy paintings on the basis of smell? Do your dinner choices reflect the entrees that sound most pleasant? I'm guessing you haven't been around audio much of your life. If you had been, you would probably prioritize around two dimensions. Sound and Value.

No, from the looks of things you're more about presentation than substance. Do you work in the fasion industry by chance? In any event, I dropped $358 in parts/labor for my setup (my cap was $350 for this project). Cheap Box? Didn't think things through? Are you a clown, or just a ***** who likes to tear into other people's projects? You won't count a single visible wire save for the two that run from the amp to the speakers. Every detail of that setup was done meticulously and thoughtfully with but one purpose (if you guessed hightest quality sound you get a lollipop). From the fabricated mounting location for the inline fuse to the tolerances on the enclosure (I'd love to see you attempt to build a box to the specs we laid down). I'm aware of the restricted access to the spare. I've got roadside assitance through 2010, so it doesnt' bother me. Besides, removing the sub requires a screwdriver and all of 45 seconds. Have you ever thought about how difficult one of your high-style custom jobs will be to remove in a pinch. I'm heading to the track tonight. Pulling my box (and the 75 lbs. it carries) will take me less time than a commercial break. After I've made my passes, I'll drive home and spend another 45 seconds putting my subs back in. Are you getting it yet? Then again, you probably won't do much racing/spirited driving in your Stang. That would inevitably bring you too close to the car's function. I'd be more likely to see you at a car show with a 16 thousand dollar custom paint job.

So here's my little challenge to you. If and when you ever get an 05+ Mustang, I'd be real interested to see what type of setup you can pull off on a Ph.D student budget (recall the aforementioned cap on this project). I'm guessing you'll have to to forgo the fiberglass enclosure (a great option btw, if you're ready to drop 4 figures to get better bass in your car), and even the Q-logic box (which will probably run about $200 by itself, leaving all of $150 for amp, speakers, cables, etc.) Bear in mind my setup comes with two 12" drawn aluminum subs and enough power to wake the neighbors from a coma. I look forward to your tight-budget solution. My SPL meter and I will be waiting.

xr7g428

To optimize sound quality and value, it is important to do a few of the basics really well. I am not saying that this system isn't done well, just trying to point out a few things that matter.

This amplifer, according to JBL, has a maximum current consumption capability of 114 amps. This means the amp requires that much current from the electrical system in the car. It also means this amp has to be 87% efficient to put out 1200 watts using only 114 amps of current. This is more power than any other single device except perhaps the starter on a really cold day.

To get the amplifer to put out that much power, the load must be wired to equal a 2 ohm load. The amp can only put out 600 watts into a 4 ohm load. The fact that it can double its power into a lower load is good. This amp should also be stable into a 1 ohm load, although it will not develop any additional power.

To wire the woofers to optimize the amp, both 4 ohm coils should be wired in parallel on each woofer, and then both woofer should be wired in parallel to the amp. (this is a mono amp). If the woofers are wired other wise, the amp will only see a 4 ohm load and will not put out all of the power you paid for.

The power wire required to supply this much current is very big. If the wire is too small, it will result in voltage drop at the amp, and less power. 4 gauge is adequate for a run up to 16 feet total for power and ground. Keep the ground wire as short as possible. Ground to a substantial body component. An inline fuse holder placed close to the battery is an absolute must.

I would recommend a 1 farad Cap. Caps help regulate the voltage supplied to the amp. Where a system like this can easily use more car than the charging system can provide, the cap will smooth out the dips. Your voltage regualtor will thank you.

Seven

Wow....you aren't bitter are you? If you can't deal with differing opinions and want everyone to slap you on the back for doing a "neato" job, then you shouldn't post. Sorry, but I comment on both the good and the bad. Did you get a good value? That is a matter of opinion. I prefer sound quality over sheer volume, and since your setup did nothing to address the inherent weaknesses of the stock headunit or other speakers, not to mention you must be powering that amp off of some type of line to RCA converter (which are notorious for inducing noise into a system) I'm guessing you would disagree with me. Now if you already replaced those other components I apologize in advance, but I didn't see a mention of it in your "ingredients" list.

Quote:

Originally posted by Purple Hayz
No, from the looks of things you're more about presentation than substance. Do you work in the fasion industry by chance? In any event, I dropped $358 in parts/labor for my setup (my cap was $350 for this project). Cheap Box? Didn't think things through? Are you a clown, or just a ***** who likes to tear into other people's projects? You won't count a single visible wire save for the two that run from the amp to the speakers. Every detail of that setup was done meticulously and thoughtfully with but one purpose (if you guessed hightest quality sound you get a lollipop).

If you think your system works for you - great....you are the one who invested your time building it and your money buying it, and you don't have to please anyone else, so don't get so offended when someone else doesn't care for it.

However, if you are going to try and insult me and claim I know nothing about audio or quality....you have another thing coming. I'm not one for presentation only, but I do think form and function work side by side. I don't feel the need to strap a 75lb box in my trunk so I can rattle my teeth loose while never being able to understand the lyrics to the songs I claim to appreciate. There was a time when I felt louder was better.....but like I said in my original post, that was my line of thinking in high school when I started my interest in car audio.

As far as my line of work, no I don't work in the fashion industry - I actually work in IT. One of my degrees is also in electronics, and I am an Certified Electronics Technician (CET) and a member of ISCET.

<!--QuoteBegin-Purple Hayz@
From the fabricated mounting location for the inline fuse to the tolerances on the enclosure (I'd love to see you attempt to build a box to the specs we laid down). I'm aware of the restricted access to the spare. I've got roadside assitance through 2010, so it doesnt' bother me. Besides, removing the sub requires a screwdriver and all of 45 seconds. Have you ever thought about how difficult one of your high-style custom jobs will be to remove in a pinch. I'm heading to the track tonight. Pulling my box (and the 75 lbs. it carries) will take me less time than a commercial break. After I've made my passes, I'll drive home and spend another 45 seconds putting my subs back in. Are you getting it yet? Then again, you probably won't do much racing/spirited driving in your Stang. That would inevitably bring you too close to the car's function. I'd be more likely to see you at a car show with a 16 thousand dollar custom paint job. [/quote]

Now you are just being childish by making assumptions you know nothing about. I won't bother to explain if you already have your mind made up about someone you don't know and will never meet.

<!--QuoteBegin-Purple Hayz
So here's my little challenge to you. If and when you ever get an 05+ Mustang, I'd be real interested to see what type of setup you can pull off on a Ph.D student budget (recall the aforementioned cap on this project). I'm guessing you'll have to to forgo the fiberglass enclosure (a great option btw, if you're ready to drop 4 figures to get better bass in your car), and even the Q-logic box (which will probably run about $200 by itself, leaving all of $150 for amp, speakers, cables, etc.) Bear in mind my setup comes with two 12" drawn aluminum subs and enough power to wake the neighbors from a coma. I look forward to your tight-budget solution. My SPL meter and I will be waiting.

Quoted post

[/quote]

I'm not about to spend what you did to build what you did if that is what you are asking. Again, I prefer quality over quantity - and an SPL meter does nothing to inform you of quality. You may be able to "wake the neighbors from a coma" but in my opinion (other than audio shows) that is essentially worthless. I don't feel the need to have my audio cranked to the level of requiring me to wear ear protection, and quite frankly I think it is extremely rude for people to drive through residential areas with their stereos cranked up in some vain attempt to impress someone.

If you honestly want to know what I would install in my car - it would include one single DVC 12" subwoofer (probably JL since I have had great experience with them in the past). I would use a tri-amp setup with a dedicated amp for the sub, one for the front channel and one for the rear. I would use a headunit with 3 sets of outputs (front, rear, sub) and an integrated crossover and EQ. I would most likely resort to a prefab box which utilizes the wheelwell space so I still have usage of my trunk to haul golf clubs, suit cases, groceries....whatever. As far as installation, I prefer to solder all of my connections when possible, followed by wrapping them in heatshrink tubing. You never see a single wire in any of my installations - and the usage of scotchloks is prohibited as well.

I don't expect it to be as cheap as what you purchased....far from it actually. However, if I couldn't afford to do it right, I would wait until I could rather than doing it wrong the first time and just having to do it all over again.

Honestly, its just a different viewpoint. I have installed systems like yours in the past and I just think I learned something from each one. With time, I started getting a little more advanced and moved my line of thinking from "quantity" to "quality". That doesn't mean what works for me works for you - that is just my line of thinking. If you disagree so be it....that is the whole point of a forum such as this - to get the opinions and views and knowledge from others.

If we don't have anything to learn or share, why bother to post?

oatmeal

This thread turned interesting.

/me crawls back to couch w/ popcorn

Purple Hayz

I wasn't fishing for compliments. I was presenting my modifications to my TMS mates for their consumption. Simply adding my experience/outcomes to the greater knowledge base that makes this forum what it is. 2 members have already PM'd with requests for advice in installing similar systems. Go figure. Now if you wanted to voice your opinion about not liking my setup, FINE! No problem. People have a vast array of likes and preferences. Check the very first reply to the thread for a tasteful, courteous example of how to construct such a post. He said he didn't like it, my setup wasn't for him, etc. At no point did he attempt to mark me as a child (your H.S. reference) or a peon ("anyone can build a cheap box...."). Your choice in doing so marks YOU as a ***** (to my mind), so spare me the veiled attempt at surprise for being treated as such.

Quote:

Originally posted by Seven@May 11, 2005, 3:58 PM
Did you get a good value? That is a matter of opinion. I'm not about to spend what you did to build what you did if that is what you are asking.

Quoted post

Given your stated inability to meet my challenge (i.e. a budget minded upgrade of your own), I would call it a matter of fact.

Quote:

Originally posted by Seven@May 11, 2005, 3:58 PM
I prefer sound quality over sheer volume.

Quoted post

Rubbish. Sound quality? In a f...ing car? Tell me, Mr. electronics wizard, how does one go about reproducing the soundstage with drivers firing sideways (front) and upwards (rear). Even assuming you could come up with an effective speaker placement solution (unlikely), the listening position (i.e. the driver's seat) would never allow for proper stereo imaging. Combine these weaknesses with the acoustic properties of an automobile cabin and you would know, as every self-respecting audiophile does, that attempting to reproduce two channel source material in a car is about as effective as setting up a home theatre in your dishwasher. If you knew the first thing about audio quality, you would be spending your money in your dedicated listening room. My own two channel setup, for example, uses an A&R Cambridge amp with Krix Lyrix Gold mains and Kimbre Cable. No DSP whatsoever (full bypass via direct stereo) and for f...k sake no subwoofer. You NEVER use subwoofers if musical sound quality is your goal. Partitioning the sub-bass frequencies creates a logistical nightmare with regard to timbre matching and the seamless integration of multiple drivers via crossovers. A single array of drivers for each of the front channels, or budget permitting, ribbon speakers are much preferred to the use of any subwoofer. Now I'm not saying that you can't improve the sonic quality of the listening experience (frequency response, clarity, tonal balance) by upgrading to higher quality components in a car, but a $75 Walmart jam box with detachable speakers do a more faithful job of stereo reproduction than ANY car setup at any price.

Car audio is a completely different animal, which is why most audiophiles couldn't give two $#iT$. I'm well aware of the inherent weaknesses in the pre/pro amp stages, but the weakness of the listening environment for outweighs them, rendering any attempt to remedy the former rather futile.

Quote:

Originally posted by Seven@May 11, 2005, 3:58 PM
You may be able to "wake the neighbors from a coma" but in my opinion (other than audio shows) that is essentially worthless. I don't feel the need to have my audio cranked to the level of requiring me to wear ear protection

Quoted post

That point was made for demonstration purposes only. As I've said multiple times, I don't push the system that hard. I'm not 16, I'm not in this for the window rattling ghetto shaker experience, and I think my privileging of quality over quantity should now be painfully apparent to you (re-read the last two paragraphs if it's not).

Quote:

Originally posted by Seven@May 11, 2005, 3:58 PM
and quite frankly I think it is extremely rude for people to drive through residential areas with their stereos cranked up in some vain attempt to impress someone.

Quoted post

Do not conflate ability with willingness, and spare me the lecture.

<!--QuoteBegin-Seven@May 11, 2005, 3:58 PM
If you honestly want to know what I would install in my car - it would include one single DVC 12" subwoofer (probably JL since I have had great experience with them in the past). I would use a tri-amp setup with a dedicated amp for the sub, one for the front channel and one for the rear. I would use a headunit with 3 sets of outputs (front, rear, sub) and an integrated crossover and EQ. I would most likely resort to a prefab box which utilizes the wheelwell space so I still have usage of my trunk to haul golf clubs, suit cases, groceries....whatever. As far as installation, I prefer to solder all of my connections when possible, followed by wrapping them in heatshrink tubing.
I don't expect it to be as cheap as what you purchased....far from it actually. However, if I couldn't afford to do it right, I would wait until I could rather than doing it wrong the first time and just having to do it all over again.

Quoted post

[/quote]

That would make for an impressive setup no doubt (sans the EQ, you should know better!), but again, you will spend hundreds, if not thousands more than I did (in a car, no less). And if your response is only that you would forgo any mods whatsoever unless you had boku bux to spend, then your logic is as flawed is your spending choices. Might as well tell everyone without the money for a $30,000 automobile not to buy a car. "Do it right" means different things to different people. I know your background is supposedly in electronics but you should consider enrolling in one of my econ courses. I'll teach you all about constrained maximization, essentially making the best of what you have (in terms of available resources). Now $350 is a pretty fair budget for most folks on this forum. Those that don't have a lot of money will probably want to get the best bang the buck (as I did), and those that have plenty probably know not to spend it on car audio (if sound quality is a priority). Now you said you didn't like my setup. I challenged you come up with a better one given my budget constraint. From your response, you don't seem up to the task. Imagine if you didn't like Mustangs, so I challenged you to name a car at its price point (25K) that could rival its specs/performance. Your response is analogous to saying you would'nt buy any car until you could afford an M3. An interesting perspective, to be sure, but certainly not an answer to my challenge, which leads me to conclude that you don't have one.

Cheers.

flamin ponyexpress

im sure theres nothing wrong. your amp is just pulling alot of power away from your electrical system thats why the lights dim. the soundstream amp you have is a true 1000 watt rms amp and pulls alot of juice. the jbl 1200 watt amp is only putting out about 300 true rms watts and thats why theres not as much power drain on the cars electrical system. theres alot more involved in it and i would be more then happy to share my knowledge with anyone who would like to send me a message or if you just have questions, ill also give any one my number if you want to call and talk about car audio
[/quote]
Have you tried a dry cell battory? I put a 1200 amp Scosche dry cell in mine. No diming,or any other problems.

JessicaRabbitt

Going off topic for a second...

Tony, reading your stuff is an aboslute joy in literature. I think I wanna...

Wait, I am married, disregard!

Anyway, loving the price of your set up... but, hopefully getting sponsored, and so money will be no object!

Also, (remember please, I dont know diddly about audio) is it possible to sew the seams of the leather around the box? It looks a little unfinished to me... I like the color match, but then I dont... on the fence on that. I am VERY visual, and my husband is constantly yelling at me for ruining my music. So, I would rather go with visually appealing, utilizing the sides of the trunk instead of the back. I use the back of my trunk more than the sides. (I have a 11yr old jumper...)

Anyway, back to your program...

Seven

Glad to see you can handle criticism so well....and for someone who claims to be insulted by my posts I find it odd how you interject your own insults whenever the opportunity presents itself. Mature indeed.

As far as your challenge? Well, just because I didn't play your game doesn't mean I couldn't if I wished to. My point was, if I was going to spend any level of money on a system, I would forego the dual subwoofer "rattle your trunk and wake the neighbors" for something a little more refined. If you insist I play your little game, I think your $350 could be better spent on one 10" or 12" sub to provide your bass needs (more than enough considering all the other speakers are stock) and then a simple amp to push it. Would I use a 1000w amp? Nope....actually I would be more than comfortable with something half that size...because at one point in my life I pushed a DVC 12" JL with a Pioneer GM-H50....and even that extremely small amp (labeled as 100w but very underrated) was more than enough bass to render the rearview mirror useless.

Anyway, to each his own. I apologize for sounding like a "*****" as you put it - that was never my intention. As you saw in my second post, even I acknowledged my first post came off a little harsh. I didn't mean to suggest you were a child - I was merely explaining what I did in High School, so don't get all bent out of shape over it.

Considering how offended you have become, I would be willing to bet you aren't as happy with your system as you claim to be, otherwise differing viewpoints probably wouldn't rattle your cage as they obviously do.

Be sure and tell your buddy he should probably wait until he has worked in the car audio department of Best Buy for at least a full year before he calls himself a "sound engineer". (Oh relax its just a joke)

In any case, best of luck with whatever you decide is best for your audio experience.....I would love to continue this little educational banter, but frankly I'm not sure the rest of TMS needs to read a flamefest, so I will respectfully refrain from posting any further....you can have the last word if you wish.

Purple Hayz

Absolutely correct. That's exactly how we wired it.

Quote:

Originally posted by xr7g428@May 11, 2005, 1:25 PM
Keep the ground wire as short as possible. Ground to a substantial body component.

Quoted post

Done and Done

<!--QuoteBegin-xr7g428@May 11, 2005, 1:25 PM
An inline fuse holder placed close to the battery is an absolute must.

Quoted post

[/quote]

My man you know your stuff. Is this close enough to the battery for ya?

Purple Hayz

I hate that part as well. Just got a few trim pieces from Home Depot...should have those edges cleaned up in no time.

p.s. Having seen your pics (Jessica Rabbitt indeed), what can a man say? Alas, you are spoken for. Tis a pity..... B)

bcboy1969

I had some stuff lying around so I thought I would use it, I had 2 10" subs and a 280-watt amp. So I built the box so that I could still use my spare without taking the box out, And I have a couple of questions 1st... I bought a line converter for the speaker wire to RCA can I use it at the back near the rear speakers or behind the HU? 2nd... the remote-on wire what’s the best place for this does the HU have a wire for ignition? Thanks

05GT-O.C.D.

Mark, that looks really nice. Good job! Yes, you can pick up the signal for the LOC at the rear speakers, and I just used the fuse box for the remote lead.

KevinS

I heard the Shaker 500 front/rear (not the 8" sub in door) speakers are all on a 150Hz high pass. This would make for a serious reduction in bass response in the event that you tapped those rear speaker leads for amplifier input.

nicksolheim

Hey Purple

Box looks great, same as mine save the color and size, like yours mine comes out in a jiffy.

I don't know what I would do if it were affixed permenantly. Too much weight for the track, needs to come out at times.

Some people are for purely for show, some are for speed, but for those of us in between this is the only route to go.

05GT-O.C.D.

Could be... I've got the base stereo so no bass blockers in my stocker.