Rest assured a marketing ploy it is - but I wouldn't go so far as to assert that he didn't have "a hand in on anything car wise..." The interview with HTT in the latest MT states that he did offer a guiding hand in the vehicle's overall direction. I dare say Carroll Shelby has forgotten more about performance engineering and racing than anyone on this board ever knew.

Plenty of vehicles use "name" to build cache and sell cars ("Enzo" Ferrari)...and plenty of them show up at Barrett Jackson years later.

Whether or not this Stang is a great "car" will rise and fall strictly on the merits of SVT's engineering efforts.

Whether or not this car will be a collectible/keepsake will rise and fall strictly on the Shelby nameplate.

A great SVT car + the Shelby name simply makes the car that much more desireable. And let's fact it, at $40K it will be a performance bargain. If dealers try to coax $65K out of it, it will fast become a joke and sully both the Ford name and the Shelby name.

My point is that I don't think this car with its 5.4 liter, 450 + horsepower engine is overpriced at $40K even WITHOUT the Shelby name. The price gouging is a separate issue and blame for that should be leveled squarely at the offending dealerships and Ford's reluctance to enforce pricing parameters, not at Carroll Shelby.

 

Rest assured a marketing ploy it is - but I wouldn't go so far as to assert that he didn't have "a hand in on anything car wise..." The interview with HTT in the latest MT states that he did offer a guiding hand in the vehicle's overall direction.

Plenty of vehicles use "name" to build cache and sell cars ("Enzo" Ferrari)...and plenty of them show up at Barrett Jackson years later.

Whether or not this Stang is a great "car" will rise and fall strictly on the merits of SVT's engineering efforts.

Whether or not this car will be a collectible/keepsake will rise and fall strictly on the Shelby nameplate.

A great SVT car + the Shelby name simply makes the car that much more desireable. And let's fact it, at $40K it will be a performance bargain. If dealers try to coax $65K out of it, it will fast become a joke and sully both the Ford name and the Shelby name.

My point is that I don't think this car with its 5.4 liter, 450 + horsepower engine is overpriced at $40K even WITHOUT the Shelby name. The price gouging is a separate issue and blame for that should be leveled squarely at the offending dealerships and Ford's reluctance to enforce pricing parameters, not at Carroll Shelby.
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Is that the dealer's fault...or the fault of the people who actually buy the car at the inflated prices?

Dealer's are there to make money. If the demand is there for a product that is short supply, then the dealer has every right to charge what they feel is the market can bear. Welcome to free market capitalism.

 

Is that the dealer's fault...or the fault of the people who actually buy the car at the inflated prices?

Dealer's are there to make money. If the demand is there for a product that is short supply, then the dealer has every right to charge what they feel is the market can bear. Welcome to free market capitalism.
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It's not a question of blame - it's a question of "free market capitalism" as you stated. And "free market capitalism" as practiced by Ford is causing them to lose sales hand over fist to import manufacturers like Toyota - who don't jerk customers in this fashion - and who are making much more money than Ford.

Face it: the domestic automakers are in T-R-O-U-B-L-E.

 

Actually, I think more reliable and better quality fit-and-finish cars are the major part of the decline of the US-based industry. Added the incentives game that lowers long-term value, and you've got that trouble...

 

In the end, people will pay if they see a product has value. To some (if not a majority), the GT500 will have value, and will pay (if somewhat grudgingly) the premium that dealers will put on it.

 

The fact that the car says SHELBY on it will most certainly drive up the price. If this car is marketted as a true shelby, collectors and speculators will be all over it hoping to turn a profit. These things will sit in garages of guys like Jay Leno, or my friend's dad, who treats real cars like they were matchbox. This is absolutely a self serving, marketting ploy. Shelby was a great car designer/engineer in the 60s. Do you honestly think he knows more about making modern performance cars than guys like John Colletti? To the modern car enthusiast, his name means one thing..."collectible".

 

I think burningman is on to something. The car would not have gotten near as much attention if it were the SVT Cobra. Even places that don't normally hype cars (CNN, Money Magazine, my local newspaper) were all over the NY show. As much as I enjoy the idea of bringing back the GT500 name, I do feel the Shelby name will inflate the price the dealers will charge.

If crazyhorse is right, then I stand a good chance of getting a GT500 at MSRP in the fall of 07, or the spring of 08? Forget that! I am not waiting that long for any car. :notnice:

 

Wow... the lack of respect for Carroll Shelby just astounds me. I think there are some out there that need to research before they post. Without this man, there would be no Mustang legacy. The Muscle Car/Shelby/Mustang Legacy of the 60s all started in a hanger at LAX in LA, California that Carroll Shelby ran. Read up on it.

We wouldn't have ANY 2005 Mustang GT to oogle over it weren't for the Shelbys of '67/'68. The reason the current Mustang is in such high demand is because it has the styling cues of the '60s Shelbys. These cars are being marked up to high heaven and there isn't one mention of Carroll Shelby. This alone proves that if it were just called the SVT Cobra there would still be this greed flying around. People are in love with the CAR, not the name!!!!

It's a limited production run and people already are in love with the car. This makes for a formula of high demand/low supply, and we all know what that means... price gouging! It's up to us, the general public, to give our business to more honest dealerships rather than giving in to these high prices.

You guys are really confusing what's driving the prices high (supply/demand) and what has made this car great (Carroll Shelby). His name will come into play when he dies. THEN his name will send the value of this Shelby into the stratosphere. The only way his name could significantly affect pricing is if he dies when they are still being produced. If that happens, then god help us all, lol.

 

am i the only one who thinks the Shelby should be called the "2007 Arin Cobra 49er Special" instead? my face could be in the centercap on the wheels! and a miniature of my head could be the shift ****....

plus everytime one of these babies smoked a ricer they would see MY name, which i think sounds much nicer than Shelby.

in fact, Ford could base a whole fleet of special edition cars with me on them. there could be the "Arin Lightning 49er Tailgater special" and the "Arin 49er Woodside Fusion special". THINK OF THE SALES FORD!!!

no one wants Carol Shelby on a car any more... they want people's names who actually reflect the car they're stamped on. you see my name would be perfect for thses cars. I, like the cars/trucks, am fast, powerful, and exceedingly good looking. its a win-win situation! for EVERYONE!

 

Wow... the lack of respect for Carroll Shelby just astounds me. I think there are some out there that need to research before they post. Without this man, there would be no Mustang legacy. The Muscle Car/Shelby/Mustang Legacy of the 60s all started in a hanger at LAX in LA, California that Carroll Shelby ran. Read up on it.

We wouldn't have ANY 2005 Mustang GT to oogle over it weren't for the Shelbys of '67/'68. The reason the current Mustang is in such high demand is because it has the styling cues of the '60s Shelbys. These cars are being marked up to high heaven and there isn't one mention of Carroll Shelby. This alone proves that if it were just called the SVT Cobra there would still be this greed flying around. People are in love with the CAR, not the name!!!!

It's a limited production run and people already are in love with the car. This makes for a formula of high demand/low supply, and we all know what that means... price gouging! It's up to us, the general public, to give our business to more honest dealerships rather than giving in to these high prices.

You guys are really confusing what's driving the prices high (supply/demand) and what has made this car great (Carroll Shelby). His name will come into play when he dies. THEN his name will send the value of this Shelby into the stratosphere. The only way his name could significantly affect pricing is if he dies when they are still being produced. If that happens, then god help us all, lol.
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I absolutely agree. Many of today's younger generation have no respect for the accomplishments of the past - and are happy to put the elderly out to pasture - all the while forgetting that if it hadn't been for what came before, there would be no present day.

The Shelby-bashing on this board is truly disgusting. :nono:

 

Absolutely, Roberts. And here's the funny thing - I'm only 21!! My father, an ex ARCAR and Indy racer, taught me all about the Muscle Car Era. Reading books on its history has helped as well.

 

I don't know about disrespect. This is a high tech, fast moving world. So a guy was a racer and designer 30-40 years ago. That should be at least 6 generations of car, and cars today are radically different (in design), or should be. The original shelby's were not DOHC cars, no superchargers, no 6 speeds, and not designed by computer. So nostalgia only carries so much weight. Welcome to the 70's folks, er 2000's, things have changed a lot.

For me, if anything they took retro too far. No IRS, too few creature comforts (heated seats/mirrors), no SMG/DSG (as of yet), power sunroof (or targa), no variable valve timing (?), heavy, little use of advanced materials, loud, I suspect not very good weight distribution and heavy. It's a low tech car, which they did to cut price (I get that). Just sell it for what it is, not try to spin it into being something else.

Selling it as a street car you can take to the track is an exaggeration. For a $40K street car, it has low-tech, low-features, and not exactly cutting edge on anything. For a track car; low tech is more reliable, and it performs reasonably well, and it has a monster motor that you can drive on the street. Seriously, an entry level Audi or Bimmer is a far more sophisticated/advanced design. What Ford has done well is HP/dollar, or just low end value for the regular stangs. The return of the muscle car or pony car, which was never about sophistication; just cheap power. This isn't bad, unless you're telling people that you're designing the BMW/Euro killer, or trying to take it the Europeans/Japanese.

 

Your post reminds me of when the GT40, designed by Carroll Shelby, creamed Ferrari and every other exotic car on the market in the Grand AM races (or another race series... not completely sure and I'm dead tired). They had four GT40s in the race. They finished right behind each in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and (you guessed it) 4th. Even today, the GT40's design in that series is copied because it was so aerodynamically perfect.

America pulls some surprises out of its hat every now and then. Don't forget that.

 

Wow... the lack of respect for Carroll Shelby just astounds me. I think there are some out there that need to research before they post. Without this man, there would be no Mustang legacy. The Muscle Car/Shelby/Mustang Legacy of the 60s all started in a hanger at LAX in LA, California that Carroll Shelby ran. Read up on it.

We wouldn't have ANY 2005 Mustang GT to oogle over it weren't for the Shelbys of '67/'68. The reason the current Mustang is in such high demand is because it has the styling cues of the '60s Shelbys. These cars are being marked up to high heaven and there isn't one mention of Carroll Shelby. This alone proves that if it were just called the SVT Cobra there would still be this greed flying around. People are in love with the CAR, not the name!!!!

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You should see some of the posts on BON and SVTperformance. They are downright rude and nasty to him.

 

FYI, Shelby had nothing to do with the original GT-40s from the 60s.

 

I certainly don't think we should be rude to someone like Caroll Shelby. He's built his own brand, and he charges a premium for that. That's not evil, and he has a heck of history. He deserves respect for what he's done. But that doesn't mean Ford should pay homage to that, or shouldn't move past their past. (Looking backwards is OK, as long as you're looking forward, and to the sides/at the competition as well).

I think the GT40, and even the new GT(almost 40) were/are great cars. But a race car isn't a daily driver. The Cobra is a nice car that caters to the retro drivers, or the young that care about performance/ego more than convenience. I'm on the cusp of buying it myself (so I'm not mocking others, just being realistic). But at their stated goal of going after the BMW's of the world, they fell far short. BMW's are about balance, convenience (luxury) and technology. The Mustang is about retro-style and economical performance (serious punch) and to do that they gave up on the rest. Again, not that bad. Engineering is about tradeoffs. But not what they sold it as.

 

"FYI, Shelby had nothing to do with the original GT-40s from the 60s."- mr-mstng

You can't be serious. Please do some research before putting such incredibly incorrect information out on a Ford enthusiast web site.

Ford's GT40 program wasn't going anywhere until Shelby was brought on board in early '65. Afterwards, the program came around with the GT40 winning at Sebring, Daytona and Le Mans in '66. The GT40 won again at La Mans in '67, '68, and '69 (though in '68 & '69, the program was in the hands of the British).

You are correct if you are saying that he was not present at the inception of the GT40 program, but he is a major reason for the program's success.

 

FYI, Shelby had nothing to do with the original GT-40s from the 60s.
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I can't believe you said that... wow. I've got the Shelby Registery and a few other muscle car books that say you're dead wrong. Anyone who knows anything about American racing knows that Carroll Shelby turned the GT40 into a winner. Just like the Mustang program, Shelby took the GT40 and molded it into something no one thought it could be - a fiercely competitive race car. Sheesh.

Thanks dig-it for saying the CORRECT series the GT40 participated in, La Mans. It was late when I posted it was in Grand AM.

 

I agree with most of your points above - the Mustang - along with most Fords, falls short of what the state-of-the-art European and Japanese brands are now offering...which is also a big part of why they are losing so much money while Toyota (for example) is making record profits.

Frankly, I find it flabbergasting that the North American automakers could have fallen so far behind, but hey, we gave our consumer electronics industry away in 1970 and are beginning to do the same thing with our computer technology, so I guess its some sort of indemic, cultural dysfunction.

But, I digress...

Incidentally, the new Mustang GT does offer variable cam timing, and the one place where they did spend money was on the new chassis design, which is definitely world class. But, yeah, it's like they're always doing a half-way job, catering to their lowest common denominator buyers which their research would appear to tell them are mostly lower middle class buyers and hardcore rednecks.

They still haven't clued in that they're getting beaten on their own soil by the imports. Talk about a narrow-minded corporate philosophy. No wonder the company is losing sales and losing money.

 

We wouldn't have ANY 2005 Mustang GT to oogle over it weren't for the Shelbys of '67/'68. The reason the current Mustang is in such high demand is because it has the styling cues of the '60s Shelbys.
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I disagree. The 05 takes cues from the 67/68 Mustangs in general. That fact that some of the mustangs from those model years happened to be tweaked by Carroll Shelby is irrelevant.