Originally Posted by mustang_lurkers

They are??? Why pay $800 to fix a TSB that the dealer would fix for free if you were under warranty?...

definitely not a 'joke'......

Originally Posted by Burke0011

When you mod a car it does not void the entire car's warranty, only the item which was modified is in question. For example if I put a supercharger on my car but I have the TSB problem of the fuel tank not accepting fuel my warranty still covers it. Now lets say for example I put the Saleen Suspension on but prior to that I had the clunking noise from the front suspension because of the loose bushin hardware, well I wouldn't need the TSB now would I Lets use a little common sense in here. The 36,000 warranty is a joke when it comes to the car. There is no documentation of any engine or transmission failures due to supercharging the engine at a safe 4-6 psi of boost with the suggested tune. If you can find such a write up I would be definately interested in seeing it. I am putting down 475hp on an 05 mustang and currently have 22,000 miles on the car and it has never seen the dealership since I bought the car. Ford is so confident with the car that they moved up the warranty on the cars to 60,000 miles on the 06 and 07 models. Remember the odds are always in favor of the dealership when it comes to buying extended warranties.

Originally Posted by Burke0011

Ford is so confident with the car that they moved up the warranty on the cars to 60,000 miles on the 06 and 07 models.

Originally Posted by mustang_lurkers

Uhhhh...sure. You keep on believing that.

I would bet my bank account that if your engine fails, and you take it in to try and fix it under warranty, as soon as the tech pops your hood, and sees your S/C, he'll close your hood and start writing an estimate. Same thing for your fuel system, or really any part of your engine. The S/C puts more stress and strain on every part of your motor and related system, even if its running at 3 psi.

The service manager has the right to refuse warranty work on any part of your car that may be affected by a mod you perform.

I'll take a 36,000 mile warranty, even with the little pain in the azz it entails with it...any day of the week over not having one at all.

Originally Posted by mustang_lurkers

Um that'd called COMPETING with GM, Toyota, Lexus, etc..... that's what that is.

You can debate the whole issue of mods all you want (Magnusson act). When it comes down to it, it depends on the DEALERSHIP itself, as your fate is in their hands - as some will honor exactly what you are talking about (ie - car is modded but mod has nothing to do with the probelm area so no issues). Others will notice anything but a stock car and instantly tell you 'warranty void'.

I think you are missing my point - I am simply addressing your 'warranty is a joke' comment - simple fact of the matter is, it isn't because a problem such as the cruise hesitation or the limited slip moan etc comes up and you go in and get it fixed - for free.


And as for the value of the Saleen serialzied cars, I think looking at the value NOW is just silly. All of the new Saleens out there are still pretty much 'new'....

Check on the S197s 15 years from now after some have been worn down, beat on, accidents, etc.... and find a mint one then and see what it could go for...

Originally Posted by TP121

Can we see YOUR NADA book?

Lets look at a reasonable scenerio..2004 Mustang GT, NADA value with 15,000 miles and all options: Trade Value-16,700. Retail Value 19,300.

2004 Saleen Coupe, S281 (not S/C) 15,000 miles.

Trade is 29,700, retail is 34,300.

Quite a bit more difference than the 5K that you suggest.

Originally Posted by TP121

Can we see YOUR NADA book?

Lets look at a reasonable scenerio..2004 Mustang GT, NADA value with 15,000 miles and all options: Trade Value-16,700. Retail Value 19,300.

2004 Saleen Coupe, S281 (not S/C) 15,000 miles.

Trade is 29,700, retail is 34,300.

Quite a bit more difference than the 5K that you suggest.

Originally Posted by mustang_lurkers

I see your example and raised it by comparing an average 2004 mustang GT against a 2004 Saleen SC. The Saleen SC's MSRP was $43,322 and now has an average retail value of $33,500 which is a 22.6% depreciation. The average mustang GT had an MSRP of $23,245 and now has an average retail value of 18,000 which is a 22.5% depreciation. You will note that the retail value I found was even less than yours and you are right the difference is more than the 5,000 dollars in the 1990 comparison. You are a genious since the Saleen in your example held its value an astounding 00.1 percent better As an added note the 2005 Saleen SC had an origional MSRP of 46,134 and now has an average retail value of 40,300 which is a 12.6% depreciation. I built my saleen clone and even put the glass roof in for less including the original cost of my GT. Don't you realize how much people got milked by buying a real Saleen? I can tell you exactly how much and it is 20,000 dollars. I added up all the parts cost that it took me to build my clone vs buying a real saleen and it was 14K but still 20k less than buying a Saleen SC with a glass roof for a total cost of 41K (My 27K GT and 14K in Saleen Parts vs a Saleen SC with Glass Roof 62K). Now of course I did most of the labor but even if I paid for labor I would have saved money. Is a paper certificate and a dash plaque in your car worth 20K? A 00.1 percent better depreciation rate doesn't support that theory to me! Don't be too mad we all get milked and or juiced sometimes. If you don't beleive my original Mustang GT numbers it is listed below. You know how to get to nada.com

The Mustang GT coupe ($23,245) and Mustang GT convertible ($27,585) come with a 4.6-liter V8 with single overhead cams and two-valves per cylinder rated at 260 hp at 5250 rpm and 302 lbs.-ft. of torque at 4000 rpm. To manage all that power, GT models are equipped with gas-pressure shocks with unique model calibrations, P245/45R17 performance tires on 17-inch alloy painted wheels, a Traction Loc rear axle, ABS and traction control. GTs come with sport bucket seats and fog lamps. The V8 mates with a Tremec five-speed manual gearbox with a tall fifth gear for improved fuel economy. A four-speed automatic ($815) is optional. Optional audio systems include the MACH 460 ($550) with in-dash 6-CD changer and the MACH 1000 ($1,295).
As I said before clones rule and real Saleen buyers are fools!

Originally Posted by TP121

Yeah...why don't you just cherry-pick your numbers?

Lets remember a GT mustang usually is driven daily, and a car like a Saleen is not- they are mostly sought by collectors, or people who show them and drive them during weekends/cruises, etc.

Don't know where you go your numbers, but the avg MSRP on a GT was 24,845. (just in case http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Overvie...4-Mustang.html ) MSRP on the Saleen was 43,322.

Now, the only way you get 18000 high retail for the GT is by plugging in less than 30,000 miles- which is doubtful for a 3 year old GT. Go above 30k miles, and its a whole different story. Suddenly, the value drops to 17375. I will give the benefit of the doubt though. So we will say you have a 2004 GT with less than 30K miles on it. So, you have to assume I have a Saleen with less than average miles on it, right?

In that case, the Saleens value jumps to 40,600 for retail value. Average retail is just that..value for a car in average condition. We can only assume the Saleen is above avg if the GT is being classified as such.

So lets look at those numbers again. The Saleen MSRP'ed for 43,322. Retail for a low miles 04 is 40,600. Heck, we will even roll up the miles a little and get a retail of 38,000. Thats a depreciation of 12%.

Now- look at those GT numbers again. Using the original MSRP for the GT, and the low mileage scenerio..we get a high retail of 18,325. Thats a depreciation of 26%. Even if I use your NADA "review" number, you still get a 21% depreciation...almost twice that of the Saleen. Now who's the genius?

We'll do even better. Tell ya what..since there are so many variables in mileage and condition when evaluating cars..lets do this. You put your "home built Saleen clone" on eBay (where you of course tell everyone that you built it yourself ) and I'll put my factory Saleen on there..and we'll see who loses the most money in the end.

I mean, I'm sure a guy who installed his own S/C, hacked up his roof, got a backyard paintjob on his body panels and installed his Saleen parts in his garage SURELY would have guys bidding 41K for a semi-fake Saleen with a warranty...ummm..well a shot at warranty work if they spend 8 hours pulling the non-factory parts before dragging it to the dealership ... ...right?

Originally Posted by TP121

Yeah...why don't you just cherry-pick your numbers?

Lets remember a GT mustang usually is driven daily, and a car like a Saleen is not- they are mostly sought by collectors, or people who show them and drive them during weekends/cruises, etc.

Don't know where you go your numbers, but the avg MSRP on a GT was 24,845. (just in case http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Overvie...4-Mustang.html ) MSRP on the Saleen was 43,322.

Now, the only way you get 18000 high retail for the GT is by plugging in less than 30,000 miles- which is doubtful for a 3 year old GT. Go above 30k miles, and its a whole different story. Suddenly, the value drops to 17375. I will give the benefit of the doubt though. So we will say you have a 2004 GT with less than 30K miles on it. So, you have to assume I have a Saleen with less than average miles on it, right?

In that case, the Saleens value jumps to 40,600 for retail value. Average retail is just that..value for a car in average condition. We can only assume the Saleen is above avg if the GT is being classified as such.

So lets look at those numbers again. The Saleen MSRP'ed for 43,322. Retail for a low miles 04 is 40,600. Heck, we will even roll up the miles a little and get a retail of 38,000. Thats a depreciation of 12%.

Now- look at those GT numbers again. Using the original MSRP for the GT, and the low mileage scenerio..we get a high retail of 18,325. Thats a depreciation of 26%. Even if I use your NADA "review" number, you still get a 21% depreciation...almost twice that of the Saleen. Now who's the genius?

We'll do even better. Tell ya what..since there are so many variables in mileage and condition when evaluating cars..lets do this. You put your "home built Saleen clone" on eBay (where you of course tell everyone that you built it yourself ) and I'll put my factory Saleen on there..and we'll see who loses the most money in the end.

I mean, I'm sure a guy who installed his own S/C, hacked up his roof, got a backyard paintjob on his body panels and installed his Saleen parts in his garage SURELY would have guys bidding 41K for a semi-fake Saleen with a warranty...ummm..well a shot at warranty work if they spend 8 hours pulling the non-factory parts before dragging it to the dealership ... ...right?

Originally Posted by mustang_lurkers

There is no need to be angry. I think that you are just angry because you got milked for the extra 20,000 dollars.

Originally Posted by mustang_lurkers

Your Quote lists high retail value not average retail value. Only an idiot would pay for the high retail value. The drop from the MSRP to the average retail value is 22.6 percent which is slightly better than for the same year GT. Using your numbers with higher mileage on the 2004 GT it does show a slightly higher 24.2 percent depreciation. So now we are talking about a whopping 1.6 percent better depeciation value rate for the Saleen over the GT. I didn't "Cherry Pick The numbers. They are right in front of you. Average to Average it is a 1.6 percent difference. It is true that there will be some idiot who will buy at the high retail rate for the Saleen but there will also be idiots who will buy a GT at a high retail rate. If I were trying to Cherry pick the numbers I would have matched the low retail rate to the GT's average. Enjoy your 1.6 percent better depriciation rate for the extra 20K you got gouged for to get it. For anyone else who wants to review the numbers for themselves go to the link below my examples posted below. I am just trying to show that it is a wiser economic choice to build a Saleen. I am not a Saleen basher, I love the cars it is just that I think that they have a unfailrly high mark up!

2004 Saleen SC Original MSRP: $43,322 Low RetailAverage Retail ValueHigh RetailBase Price$28,200$33,500$40,600TOTAL PRICE$28,200$33,500$40,600
2004 Mustang GT Origional MSRP: $23,245

Clean Trade-InClean Retail ValueBase Price$14,875$17,375Mileage - 36,000 miles$250$250TOTAL PRICE$15,125$17,625
http://www.nadaguides.com/UsedCar/Va...1-1-5005-0-0-0

Originally Posted by TP121

Are you kidding? I paid EXACTLY 41K out the door for my Saleen, it is authentic, has a 3 year factory warranty, and I don't have to "pretend" its a real factory Saleen. Trust me, there is not 20K difference.

I would have to see a scan of that one to believe it unless it is the the 3v and not the SC If it is not the SC then mine is faster than yours






Ummm yeah..and I have a factory warranty..because it was built by Saleen trained techs in their FACTORY, and not a backyard garage. It also has a PROVEN resale track record, and factory support.

You do get factory support and tech support for buying their parts also. My car has 21,000 miles on it with no issues. If I have any warranty problems before my car turns 3 years old I will put a post on here and "kneel before ZOD for you"!





Dude..are you THAT stupid? All Saleens are real, factory produced cars. The Saleen Mustang is very real, and is not a "tuner" car. They are partnered with Ford Mo Co, are listed in the NADA database and IIOA as a factory car. You can also finance the car. Wait till a guy comes along to buy your car- you are asking 40K for it, but the Bank will only loan 22K on it. Ya know..cause its not a FACTORY Saleen. Do some research before you post ignorant stuff like that.

You are utilizing a loop hole agreement that they made with ford. Factory produced cars come from factories not artisan shops which Saleen uses to upgrade a car which is what a tuner does. If you need a transmission, altenator, throtle body, ABS sensor, AC compressor, car door, axle, engine, fly wheel etc... where is it going to come from. FORD! How much of the car is actually SALEEN? Dude your car is still a Ford but you can hear what I am saying




So now you are a skillfully trained auto-builder? Good luck with that one.
Take my challenge..lets put our cars on ebay and see who loses the most money in theory. You don't have to "sell" your car, you can put a ultra high reserve on there just to check market value. Actually..call your bank and check LOAN VALUE on your car. I already did. 41K isn't even in the same zipcode. Loan value matters, ya know..cause people normally don't have 40K in cash laying around to buy a car.

No I am not a skillfully trained auto builder. I am an Aerospace Engineer who works for the military on the worlds most advanced fighter jets. I payed my way through college by working as an ASE certified mechanic for Ford, I have an FAA Airframes and Powerplants license and a BS in Aeroanautics and a MAS in Aeronautics. I have over 8000 documented hours through the government as a Jet engine mechanic and other Thermodynamic operations. Doing things on my mustang is like working on a kids tinker toy compared to what I do for a living. Believe me you would have wished that I was the guy who built your Saleen Just look at the picture I posted in my earlier posting their are no flaws in my gaps between my body panels and the hood. I build my car out of the love for look and performance where as yours was built by a guy who was under a time schedule to make profit. Who do you really think did a better job?

I accept your ebay challenge only if you pay for my sellers account! I am not about to waste money to prove this to you since I already know that I made the right choice.


Yeah, and you will be a crying boy if and when you go to sell your car. We will see how much of that 41,000 dollar "investment" you get back.