mkoesel

It's somewhat naive to compare the all-new 3V modular head to the relatively-unchanged-for-5-years 4V modular head, and conclude that the 4V head is going away on the 4.6L

Ford has already said that they will continue development of 4V modular motors. VCT will be added to the 4V head soon. Expect a VCT equipped 4V head this decade.

People don't give a rats behind which head has "better technology", if the 4V is making more power. Ask people in Australia who own a Falcon GT or XR8 if they care that the base Falcon has VCT.

97RedSnake

But then, you are pushing the 4.6 3V engine to its limit right out of the box. I just don't see alot of interest in a 350hp SE model that is just a mildly pumped up version of the regular GT's engine. The only way i see that sort of SE selling is in a Bullitt type car with no more than a $3,000 premium over the normal GT's price. Maybe i am just speculating on how i want the car to turn out, but i am hoping for a S/C'd engine in a SE. It can be either a blower on top of the 3V engine, or a version of the current Cobra's motor. In the end, i just want a SE with some real bite. And a N/A 4.6 3V won't do it for me. Just my opinion.

PaperTarget

BTW, I was speaking specifically about the Mustang...

What's naive about it? It's a comparison. People have been comparing it to the 2V head too, are they naive? :angry:

Anyway, I have no doubt that Ford with update the 4V head to VCT. My point was strictly that no one with common sense would want a 4V head without VCT over a lighter 3V head that flows the same with VCT. Which would you choose if you had the choice??? I'd pick the better head - the 3V.

You Australian arguement doesn't really apply here in the States. They have 5.4L motors, not 4.6L. Plus, they already have VCT on their 4V heads.

Emil

There needs to be a middle ground between the Cobra and the GT. 350hp and a price jump of $3000 would be perfect for me. It would make it a mid 13 sec car, just what I'm looking for without the most likely $40K price of a Cobra.

mkoesel

You didn't say that, but I still disagree anyway.

The naivete I was refering to was the implication made by your words, that the 4V heads would not be updated. You've changed your tune in the post I'm responding to here, but obviously I was making my statements based on your original post.

Its a poor one. Your words were:

"I just don't see the 4V head coming back on any 4.6L motor for two big reasons:
1) The 3V flows the same
2) The 4V doesn't have VVT"

You said on any 4.6L motor. If that's not what you meant, fine. But your words certainly imply that you were including all 4.6L motors from here and into the future.

I don't know. I can't make that sort of observation about those particular people without seeing specifically what they are saying.

What if the 4V was supercharged? That's a very real possibility. So now, it
doesn't really matter that the 3V heads have "better technology". Obviously
the supercharged 4V will have better performance.

I'd never build a modular motor without 4V heads. Of course, I'd use FR500 or Navigator heads, which will outflow the 3V heads handily.

Why does engine displacement matter here at all?

So, are you saying that, if the Mustang motors were 5.4L, then you would not automatically prefer the 3V head? Why not?

Nope not on the modular they don't. 4V Heads are the same ones we use here.

PaperTarget

The whole thread has been about Mustangs, I was clarifying it to make sure you understood.

Just to clarify this point, I don't see the CURRENT (and only ones I know of at this point) 4V heads on the 4.6L coming back on a Mustang.

Again, not really. Stay in context.

Speaking of Mustangs, again.

Ok, but I wasn't talking about a s/c motor. If the 3V was s/c I'd still pick it because it would be better on the low end.

Those aren't the same 4V heads we've been talking about are they???

You tell me. Why does it matter if the 3V heads flow the same as the 4V heads?

If the 3V heads flow the same as 4V heads and have VCT where the 4V heads don't, I'd pick the 3V heads.

I'll have to check into that. Someone brought heads over from there and put them on a 5.4L here (they were VCT) but they didn't have the ability to use the VCT technology on them. I'll see if I can't find the story.

mkoesel

Which is fine. If you had done it from the beginning, much of this discussion could have been avoided. When someone makes a blanket statement, I don't presume to know it should have any specific context. People make off-topic or generalized comments all the time in online forums. I would never have responded if I did not actually believe that you were standing behind the words you wrote exactly as they were stated. I am not here to antagonize you or anyone. I was simply making sure that misinformation was not going unchecked.

I agree only if we are strictly talking about non-supercharged motors.

So basically what it boils down to then is that the 4.6L 4V found in the Mach I will not make it into an S197. And had you just said that, I'd have agreed. But you didn't say that. And somehow I don't think you meant your words to be that specific at that time either. But that's neither here not there now.

In the context it was originally delivered (i.e. "all") it was poor.

It might be. It would be highly dependent on the rest of the components on the motor.

No, although I was merely adding detail to the first sentence, where I said I'd
never build a modular without 4V heads. Even if my choice were the current stock 3V or 4V heads, I'd still choose the 4V heads. However, I would do so only because the 4V heads have a more established aftermarket.

I can't tell you because I do not believe it to be true, nor would I make any statement that implies it does, as you have.

Because flow numbers are not the sole factor for determining an engine's power. This is especially true for stock motors.

So, you'd rather have a base model V8 Falcon than an XR8 and GT???

Come on man, now you're just lying for the sake of supporting your argument.

Check all you want. I guarantee you that the 4V 5.4L Falcon motors do not have VCT.