PaperTarget

That's why I was asking if the 5.0L cammer had been tested. I wouldn't rule out a Factory Boss though. The GTR has Boss written all over it. Shinoda doesn't own the "Boss" name. They own "Shinoda Boss" from what I recall.

((ShocK))

My personal feeling is that that part of the press release is being misinterpreted. I think the press release was refering to the price range of _factory produced_ Mustangs for the 2005MY going forward. I'll bet that the actual cosumer cost to put together a car like the GTR would be anywhere from $75k to $100k. [/b][/quote]
Agreed. We'll see I guess...

mkoesel

The reason I suspect that there will be no factory Boss Mustang has nothing to do with copyright issues or even a lack of a federalized 5L motor. Instead, the primary reason I suspect no Boss Mustang is that Ford will concentrate their marketing on the Shelby brand instead.

crazyhorse

I agree I think the next SE is Shelby. No facts, just based on the new "partnership"

Dan

I concur. We've heard GT350 rumours. Probably with the old cobra engine.

GT40 2

I concur. We've heard GT350 rumours. Probably with the old cobra engine. [/b][/quote]
yes its true.

airforcepunk

I don't know if this has been brought up but what if they put in the the enigne that is going in the new shelby cobra, in to the new mustang cobra R or whatever the name of it is going to be. I mean these numbers not supercharged are pretty d@mn sweet.

Shelby Cobra :worship:

mkoesel

Yes it has been discussed. Ford already built a prototype Mustang (an SN95, not an S197) with a very similar motor (5.8L using stock bore/stroke, instead of bored/stroked to 6.4L like on the Shelby).

It would make an awesome powerplant for a high end Mustang. However, I'm not sure at this point that it will make a better business case (in a Mustang) than a supercharged 5.4L. It remains to be seen just how much power it will make in production form.

rhumb

My guess for any putative GT350 would be that it has the DOHC 4.6, naturally aspirated, tuned to put out 350hp. This would be backed up by a tight 6-speed and chassis tuned for road racing, perhaps with IRS, as opposed to a drag-strip only setup.

rhumb

...and my other guesses...

That the GTR-40 would form the spiritual basis for a later day Boss 302 type car with either the 5.0 cammer or perhaps the current Cobra motor (done in AL for better weight?).

Further prognostications:

Mach I, which would have a naturally aspirated 3V 5.4 of around 400 HP and be aimed for drag strip use (live axle and appropriate suspension tuning).

Cobra: This would be Ford's M3 killer, with a version of the GT40's SC 5.4 with "500" hp rated, sophisticated IRS to give it the broadest possible performance envelope and a lot of unique trim and body work. Price will be a jump over the current Cobra (+$10K) but will be a truly world-class GT car.

GT500: While using the Cobra's 500hp motor and basic suspension, this would be a more stripped down, bare-knuckle, hard core performance race track car sacrificing the Cobra's creature comforts for light weight componentry and firmer chassis tuning.

Well, those are my guesses, at least for the moment:-)

Joes66Pony

My personal feeling is that that part of the press release is being misinterpreted. I think the press release was refering to the price range of _factory produced_ Mustangs for the 2005MY going forward. I'll bet that the actual cosumer cost to put together a car like the GTR would be anywhere from $75k to $100k. [/b][/quote]
Ok..if that's true....then somebody please explain to me why a road racing car that's going to cost approximately 75,000 dollars...doesn't come with IRS?!? :angry:

You know...it's bad enough the GT won't even have IRS as an option...how does Ford expect to compete against Ferrari and Porsche in ALMS GT or SCCA SWC with solid axle rear end?

Stop listening to the drag racers, Ford! Where's John Coletti when you need him?

crazyhorse

This is still a concept. It is not production. If they produce it, they probably will still put IRS in it. My guess is that they don't have the IRS worked out yet (SVT is now rumored to be at least 2 years away). So in order to be ready for the 40th ann., they had to put the GT's suspension in it. No need to blow a gasket, Ford will make a Mustang that fits everyone's needs. If you have $75k to spend, you have a lot of other choices as well.

Joes66Pony

Nah..not really blowing a gasket. I already blew it when I found out the 05 GT wasn't getting the IRS...even as an option.

Besides the fact that I don't have 75,000 (and if I did..it would be used as a down payment on a Ford GT), the way I look at it is that if Ford were serious about offering a Mustang racer that can be competitive, they would at least offer a product on equal footing as a Porsche GT3 RSR or Ferrari 360 GTC.

Plus I don't buy into the idea that Ford is having trouble developing the IRS. Considering that the car shares the same basic platform as the Lincoln LS, and it's my basic beliefe that 05 Mustang was designed for IRS all along only to be changed to solid axle late in the game, I think dropping an IRS system into a GTR would have been fairly easy to do and not cost prohibitive at all.

Then again, this is concept. So I doubt there's been any real development that has gone into the car to make it competitive.

97RedSnake

Well, since we are making guesses...i have a few myself. B)

I think we will see no more than 3 performance models at any given time. That is not including the R model. By this, i mean a GT, a Special Edition (think Mach 1), and a Cobra.

I could see a Shelby GT350 for the special edition. However, i think it will have either the current Cobra's engine, or perhaps a supercharged version of the new GT's 3-valve motor. I don't see them sticking with a N/A 4.6 DOHC. Using the Mach 1 as an example, Ford likes to take the previous Cobra's engine and sort of "de-mote" it to their new special edition Mustangs.

This of course leaves the new Cobra needing a new engine. I think we will see a blown 5.4 DOHC in the new Cobra. It will be similar to the Ford GT's engine, but probably not identical. My guess would be that the new Cobra will have no less than 450hp, and no more than 500hp. I could see them doing one with 495hp, or something like that. Ford, for some reason, doesn't seem to like nice round numbers, like 500.

Now, i know there are people who are hoping for the V10 out of that test mule for the new Cobra. I don't see that happening. Ford has had great success with supercharging lately. And personally, i would rather have a blown Cobra with strong forged internals. It leaves room for big, cheap power increases with just a pulley and chip swap.

I do think it is very possible we will see that V10 in the next R model. The R models are intended for racing, and it is usually hard to find a sanctioning body that will allow a vehicle with a power adder. So, you need a strong running N/A motor in the R model.

Anyway, sorry the post was so long, but wanted to play the guessing game with everyone else.

PaperTarget

I just don't see the 4V head coming back on any 4.6L motor for two big reasons:

1) The 3V flows the same

2) The 4V doesn't have VVT

The 3V head is better, period. Nobody is going to want to buy a Special Edition Mustang if the regular GT has better techology. I think it would be more likely that you'd see a 4.6L 3V S/C motor than a 4V. VVT makes up for the low end torque loss of the 4V head.

crazyhorse

All I can say is, bring 'em on. Whatever the engine choices are, are going to make for some of the best Mustangs ever. I just hope I can hold out long enough for the SE or Cobra.

Joes66Pony

Never say never. It's still possible that all the technology in the 3v will make it into the 4v, such as the VVT and fly by wire.

In the end though, if you want high rpm high horsepower...the 4 valve is the way to go.

PaperTarget

Never say never. It's still possible that all the technology in the 3v will make it into the 4v, such as the VVT and fly by wire.

In the end though, if you want high rpm high horsepower...the 4 valve is the way to go. [/b][/quote]
But the 3V head flows the same, so the 4V gives you no more advantage at high RPMs than anywhere else...

Emil

For the next SE no quesses if it's gonna be 3 or 4 valve but I bet it will still be n/a and around 330-350 hp.

PaperTarget

I think a n/a 4.6L with 3V heads can hit 350 hp without a problem as long as they up the compression and switch to premium (91+ octane).