WarningSLO

I thought that the production design was practically finalized before the concept was unveiled.

Not trying to flame just thought that there were some people here with CAD models of the production design before the concept came out at the auto shows.

Now if features were promised during the concept's unveiling (IRS?) that got canned then I understand your perspective...

crazyhorse

That is actually my understanding as well. I was just using that as another example. Truthfully, that concept was destined to change (2 seater, glass roof, gear driven gauges,etc.).

The chrome engine cover on the Production GT unveiled at NYIAS and the 18in Fanblades are two more examples.

I'm a Mustang man down to the bone. I'm just aggravated that we are starting to see changes from the, IMO, perfect GT500 concept. I just don't want Ford to cheapen it and sell it just on Shelby's name alone. I was thrilled to see the twin screw, leather interior and 19" wheels. Now it looks like all 3 of those are going to be gone.

edit: the IRS was promised along time ago. It never made it to the concept. I can understand that. We were told the Shelby concept was 95% complete. The 5%. however, seems to be the important stuff (to me at least). I think the GT interior looks cheap. I've shown the car to several friends and relatives. That is the first thing they comment on. I think the Cobra needs the leather to upgrade it in the class catagory.

68notch

Actually, it's pretty apparent that you have no idea what you're talking about--despite long you've been "following" it. First, they haven't *promised* anything. What everyone's seen so far is a concept car, with close ties to the production version--that's it.

I'm particularly amused by your huffing and puffing about the absence of a twin screw. In stock form, with the roots blower, this motor will make more power than most people will ever need. A smaller pulley and a ported blower will probably take people into low 11 second ET's, easy. Gee, Ford, you really let us down there.

Now, according to Hot Rod here is list of what will be changing:

1) Urethane/vinyl decals vs. hand laid stripes
2) 18 x 9.5 wheels vs. 19's
3) Changes to front splitter to "accomodate breakover and approach angle requirements"
4) Hood extractor grilles.

Notice the absence of "leather interior," "5.4L forged, S/C engine," "T56," and "4-piston Brembos."

<!--QuoteBegin-Robert@May 15, 2005, 9:58 PM
Ah, Ford sales are down...import sales are up. It's common knowledge that Ford and GM are hanging on by a thread while companies like Toyota are gaining a dominant foothold in the North American market. THAT import competition.

As big a seller as the Mustang is, it can't keep Ford afloat by itself. Stang sales account for less than 5% of Ford's total volume. Now they want to bait & switch with the one hit they have??

Quoted post

[/quote]

Alright, I'll try to wade through this mess. First, I was referring to import competition to the GT500, of which there is none. Next, you say that Ford is hanging by a thread. I woundn't go that far but, yeah, they're hurting a bit. Then, you tell me that Mustang sales account for less than 5% of Ford's total volume. Fine. How is that the GT500, which will account for a signifcantly lower percent of Mustang volume itself, can affect Ford's bottom line so dramatically?

crispy23c

Let me jump in here. You think that by exquisite feeling release of liquid waste product off the hardcore Mustang enthusiasts that Ford will gain market share???

C'mon. I couldn't agree with C-Horse more. I, too have been rabidly waiting for this car, following it since the rumored new body was coming. Yes, they developed the prodiuction Mustang GT, then they came out with the concept. Were you around for the 20th Anniversary Mustang GT350 in 1984??? I was. They promised 300, then 350 horse. You know what came through?

1) The same Mustang engine as in the GT (225 HP);
2) GT350 Stripes on the rocker panels;
3) Special Badge & number plaque ;
4) Red interior

And....an optional TRX suspension. Nothing special.
Ford Promised the moon, and delivered a Pez

This has happened before, and it will happen again if we don't speak out.

So, I agree with Crazy Horse. Make a loud stink now, don't wait until the bean counters destroy this product.

My .02

crazyhorse

So, if these changes are not important, why would Ford list list them as highlights in the press releases? They specifically say screw type blower as though it is better. why tout it if it isn't an advantage. In stock form, the roots will be adequate. If you want to mod, the twin screw is capable of highter boost (see Ford GT).

the press releases also say 4 piston brakes. Again, that is more than most people "need", but, most of us noncomplacent buyers would be very dissappointed if they don't show up.

Hot Rod doesn't mention leather, but, Automobile does. I doubt any of the Rags are 100% correct, but, it bothers me to think Ford can (and probably will) cheapen this fabulous concept.

This car isn't about what we "need", it is what we want. I want the baddest Mustang to ever be produced. So far this car is it. If they start taking away the goodies, the distance between it and the previous ones gets closer.

BTW, I don't see how you have proven I "don't know what I am talking about." I know just about every detail of every press release and mag article. Unless you are a Ford insider, you can't possibly know more than I. No, they haven't "promised" us. I'm stretching there, but, we were told the car is 95% complete. IMO, swapping SCers, changing interior, changing wheels/tires and making the hood non-functional is a lot more than 5%. The splitter and stripe material are not going to make a difference to me, but, still adds to that 5%. The IRS was never on the concept, it was in early press releases that it would have it. The Mustang GT engine cover doesn't apply to this car and as I said above, the concept was destined to change.

So, before you go spouting off about how I "don't know what I'm talking about." Learn who I am and how much I know. If you disagree with me fine, but, don't call me out on my knowledge.

crazyhorse

I was typing the previous post when you posted this. That is whole reason I am arguing this. Ford needs to know how we feel about the Concept. That is what concepts are for. They present it, gauge reaction and and make the production decisions based on that. Well, I am reacting. I want the concept like is.

jwenger

Yo Crazt and Crispy, I agree with you guys 100% I too am sick and tired of being shown a Steak and being given a freakin hamburger. Case in point the sorry 05 GT. That was a huge let down after getting all jacked up after seeing the Concept(Beautiful) in Atlanta and then seeing the actual production car. I can see history repeating itself. Do I need this car? NO! Do I want this car? Yes!! In my estimation dropping the Whipple alone is >5% change. I can live with 18" rims. But to cheapin up the interior WTF Come on Ford for once get with the program

holderca1

I am not following how this is relevent to the GT500. First off the majority of import sales in this country are midsize and compact cars (i.e Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, ect...) I don't see too many people that are sitting there considering the GT500 on one hand then a Camry on the other.

68notch

Yeah, a twin screw blower is more efficient than a roots type. But most people will have trouble managing the 550+ whp a ported/pullied roots blower will be capable of producing. A pullied/ported roots blower on a tuned 03 Cobra makes between 475-500 whp--that's with 4.6L displacement. The performance ceiling of a modified roots blower is much higher than you give it credit. Hence, absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Hot Rod says in the article they'll be on the car, so they're confirming the press release. But I guess you already knew that.

What are you so afraid of? That only the seats will have leather? Heh. Vanity.

Wow, every detail? Really? I guess you also know that Ford never really "switched" the blower, except for in their press releases--the concept is powered by a roots blower.

And this 95 percent business. Has it every occured to you that the person who said that and you yourself may have different opinions of what percentage a particular part constitutes the makeup of the total vehicle. Or, has a system been standardized without my knowledge?

ArkAngelx3

I Got an idea, if you want to gripe and complain, then go read NEWSWEEK. Im sure they have an unamed source with accurate information on the new GT500!!!!

mr-mstng

The concept was a screw type blower.

Robert

Hey, Bubba, there are two kinds of people in this world: leaders and followers. Leaders question, followers blindly accept everything they're told and question nothing.

Apparently, you're a follower.

Robert

I was making an analysis of Ford Motor Co's overall situation, symptomized by an endemic bait & switch, lowest common denominator manufacturing philosophy - not a linear vehicle comparison.

No, Camrys and Accords don't compete with Mustangs, but Toyota competes with Ford, and are kicking Ford's butt overall. So Ford shouldn't be "dumbing down" features on the one hit they have right now.

Robert

I WOULD go that far, and most financial experts are. Ford is hemorrhaging money while Toyota enjoys record sales. Ford stock has been reduced to junk bond status while Lexus expands its market share.

Yes, the Mustang accounts for less than 5% of Ford sales, but you're missing the whole PR element here. The Mustang is their one hit; their 'halo' car for the masses. Start messing with that and doing the old 'bait & switch' (which Ford is notorious for) with the Shelby, and all you do is reinforce what the pundits and an increasing percentage of the public believe: that imports are better quality overall - and offer a better ownership experience - than domestics.

68notch

Not according to the Hot Rod journalist who saw the delivery of the engine and the assembly of the GT500 at SSV. He could be wrong, but here's what he wrote:

"The concept and the production GT500 are both powered by a 5.4L supercharged DOHC modular V8 that uses a production F-150 iron cylinder block mated to Ford GT heads and cams with a Roots-style positive-displacement supercharger."

Whoever he spoke with about the concept engine must have been knowledgeable because the writer also learned the concept prototype engine was mated to a 5-speed transmission w/ a 6-speed ****.

68notch

Oh no! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

No, I'm not missing the PR element. Your suggestion that the GT500 is losing its appeal as a halo b/c of the changes occuring between concept and production is ludicrous. 999 out of 1000 people won't even know there's less leather inside or a roots blower instead of a twin screw. Face it, the only people Ford will disappoint are snooty journalists from mainstream (Motor Trend, Road and Track, etc.) auto mags and their gullible readership.

mr-mstng

A lot of people refer them as 'roots style'. I saw it in person and spoke to the Ford people about it.

ArkAngelx3

Yup, couldnt argue with that. Im a follower. I follow the millions of other of people who loves Mustangs, and are greatful we even still have it around. You're more than welcome to lead the gripers and complainers over to Toyota, and get their 450+ HP/TQ Car at around 40K. Meanwhile me and the other thousands of people will discuss and complain about how the heck we are going to get one at MSRP, X, D, Z, A Plan!!!!!

68notch

That's cool. The distinction I was making was that the GT500 concept had a roots-type (03 Cobra-type) blower and not the twin screw (Whipple/KB Blowzilla-type) people expected/claimed.

holderca1

I agree and disagree. I think in order to compete with imports on total sales, they have to improve the cars that people are buying. This means improving their midsize and compact car lines. I for one when I go looking at cars, say I am in the market for a midsize and I am considering a Five Hundred, Camry and Accord. The fact that they don't include everything on a concept version of the GT500 has no relevance on whether I decide on the Camry over a Five Hundred. I judge the cars that I am looking at.

Edit: Adding 2004 Sales Numbers
Toyota Camry - 426,990
Honda Accord - 386,770
Honda Civic - 309,196
Ford Taurus - 248,148