? if anything the straight line performer would be the cheaper of the two, you dont need much in the way of chassis or powertrain dynamics to gobble up 1320 feet of concrete or asphalt. Now a total package car that has to be able to go full throttle off the corkscrew at laguna, that takes some sophistication and as has been proven time and again, complexity = sophistication = added cost

 

You just made the Ford's Marketing Department's bulletin board...
"... you see? I told you they would pay!"

 

I always thought the the GT500, while objectively a better car than say the 2004 Cobra, is a far WORSE value overall. While probably is will be a similar step up from the Stang GT in terms of performance as was the SN97 Cobra, at least straight line, it will be a far greater step up in relative price for, part for part, significantly LESS content.

Mid $30s would have been a fair price, $40K was pushing it, $45 simply takes it out of the ballpark except for all but the most dyed in the wool Stang fanatics. Beyond a big motor, there simply is not enough "there" there to justify such a price. I think once these google-eyed fanatics ****** up the first run of these, that the demand will quickly soften in the face of more discerning buyers.

With the expected onslaught of competitors in the next few years (Dodge Challenger, Chrysler Cuda, new GTO, GM F-cars, etc.), I think Ford/HTT, is really setting themselves up badly to compete here and will eventually be forced into significant price cutting to then compete, which will not bring joy to those spendthrift GT500 owner's resale values.

While the Mustang/GT500 are, now, the only real Pony cars in the market, I fear short-termgreed and hubris will bite them in the butt when real competition does appear.

 

Does anyone know what the proposed or projected production numbers are for the Z06?

 

This is why the most important thing we can do for a GT500, is to all insist they all sit on the LOT if they are marketed more than $42500.. I am willing to pay a dealer $2500 bucks to acquire for me a GT500.. But thats it.. Anything above that is the appreciation of the vehicle which belongs to me..

Anyone paying a dealer $55K, has agreed with himself, that he is willing to give away $15K of appreciation over the next 10-20yrs... Thats $750 a year for the car.. You deserve this as an owner.. This is your money..

Now take this, plus a modest 4% interest rate, lets say for 60Months based on 55K.. This is $2200 bucks a year, and $11,000 to finance the $55K..

So your GT500 cost you $66,000 in 5 years.. You have over paid $15,000.. So instead of you being around $51,000 after 5 years your at $66,000.

Lets say the car loses $10,000 once you leave the lot.. So now the car is worth $40,000.. You pay it off, and your appreciation of $750 per year is $3750 in 5 years..

So lets take these numbers..

$51,000= After 5 years-$3750=$47,250After 10 years=$7500=$39,750

$66,000= After 5 years - $3750 =$62,250After 10 years=$7500=$54750

Now looking at this, you can see how troubling this is.. The idea is to allow the appreciation of the vehicle to catch up with the amount invested, and how this interacts with the vehicles net worth.. You can see, that by paying $15K more for the car, you have extended yourself out with your money, and that value wont catch up to the cars net worth for several years.. Now should you decide to sell the car, you will need to sell the car for $15000 more than an owner who paid $40,000..

So its up to you.. We all know that getting $39K for the car in 10 years is out of the question.. We need to keep it longer.. So this absolutley mens getting $54K for it in 10 years, is ridiculous.. You need to keep it even longer for the value to catch up..

This is just a rough look at it.. Please dont argue over actual values.. But this is whats gonna happen to those that think paying $55K is ok..

No flames please..

 

By $45k he MIGHT mean $35k MSRP + $10k ADM.

Personally I'm okay with the $35k MSRP, but no ADM

 

Now if you look at his $35K, and incorporate it into the scheme put together, you can see how you would catch up quicker over several years, as opposed to $55K.. $55K is obsurd!

 

Sort of makes you want to buy up a bunch of 03-04 Cobras right now so you can sell em for for a $5k profit when people figure out how much the GT500s are gonna ultimately cost eh?

If the 5.4 liter is whats driving the price up, I say stick to the 4- valve 4.6.

Additional displacement is great, but the Terminator mill had noo problems making huge hp #s.

I mean...really, with a KB blower, big psi pulley, exhaust and tune--with 03-04 Cobras with those mods making 600 rwhp-- the GT500 should make, what 800 rwhp? No one needs 800 rwhp.

Then again, never mind all of this, as Im sure its Shelby's now-shameful name that is behind the price spike.

 

Will get the choice of a free idiot or moron self portrait. What a deal!

 

You must have one of those zero principle mortgages as what you've decribed is a zero principle loan where all you are paying is interest.

On a conventional loan, for $55,000 / 5 years /4% the actual amount of interest that would be paid is $5,775 NOT $11,000.

The monthly payment would be $1012.91 and after 60 payments you own it outright.


However, if I understand what you are trying to say, I agree with you. That is, a car, any car including a GT-500 is NOT a good investment, especially if you are financing it.

Using your example of a 4% interest loan, you also have to add inflation into the equation. Say inflation is also 4%, that means your car has to appreciate @ 4% / year, compounded plus the interst cost to break even in your investment.

So looking 10 years out, in the year 2017 you would have to be able to sell your GT-500 for $89,328 to break even and this is not counting on going maintanence expences, property taxes, insurance, etc. When you add all those costs in, you'll probably have to sell your GT-500 for over $100K in 10 years to have made any money.

So go ask yourself, what is a 1995 Mustang Cobra worth today and what did it cost back in 1995?

 

Agreed! (darn as an avowed SRA guy I find this hard to beleive that I am in agreement with this IRS guy). IMO some suit somewhere is letting the current mustang phenomena go to thier heads.

 

Well put Rhumb as usual.

I would add that while I am a dyed in the wool Mustang Fanatic (hence my user name!), I am not going to blindly pay an excessive price for a Mustang GT with a big engine and a old man's name on it. (Sorry to offend all those Shelby lovers out there).

The GT500 would be an exceptional car if offered for 40 large with the same content as displayed in the concept. Offering significantly less car for now $45K is not only ridiculous but also an insult to Mustang enthusiasts who have waited and sacrificed to obtain the "ultimate" production Mustang. Just my $.05 (arbritary price increase with no subsequent increase in value)

 

Not Flaming, but:

1. Even paying $2500 over sticker is absurd. This is a special car, but, not a super rare supercar. WE should all let them sit until Sticker or less.

2. I'm not quite sure what your numbers are supposed to mean. It's probably just me having a hard time following them. The car starts at retail (MSRP). Let's say $40k as that is what was supposed to be its target price. If some moron pays $55k for the car, he takes the initial loss (you used $10k) from the MSRP, not what he paid. SO he loses $25 grand by driving the car off the lot (15k over plus the 10k loss). Used buyers are not going to pay a portion of the AMV that the first bonehead paid.

3. I think you meant depreciation (loss) rather than appreciation (gain). It will depreciate a lot more than $750/year

(The rest of this is not to you, but, to anyone who thinks this car will appreciate), You should never look at this car as an investment. There is no way this car is going to be worth a lot of money for a very long time. A good mutual fund is nowhere near as much fun to drive, but, it will make you a lot more money, sooner and with far less risk. Just because it is a Shelby, does not guarantee future value (neither do mutual funds, but, there is a lot less risk of loss). This is a modern day car that Ford used a legendary Mustang's history to sell more cars. It might be valuable someday, but, it will depreciate just like all other cars until they become rare and desirable.

in 10 years this car will be lucky to bring $10-$15 thousand total. Paying over sticker is only going to get you the first one on the block. Your neighbor will laugh at you when he gets his 6 months later at below sticker.

We have seen this happen with the Bullitt, Mach 1 and Terminators. Each time the price drops once the "gotta have the first one" people thin out. It is happening right now with the Ford GT and it is a lot more car than the Shelby. If Ford thought it was worth 50 or 60k, they would have priced it there. Why didn't they? because is won't sell very many there and neither will the dealers. Be patient, you will get it at sticker or less depending on how long you wait.

I have my name first on the list at my dealer. He has promised me sticker price for the first car after the Powerlease cars are cleared. If he comes back on me, I'll also be first on his "see you later, dude, I'm not paying over sticker for it" list. Don't buy into the hype. It will come down.

 

LOL!! Thanks V10, far draggin me out of the water.. I was just trying to make a point, shown alittle easier through a less sophisticated means.. You did a very good job, putting alittle more reality into it.. I knew someone would eventually take it apart piece by piece.. Atleast you came somewhat to the same conclusion..

Here is your anology my friend..

Here is the 1995 Cobra $21,300

http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/time...8/95/index.htm


Here is the same guy trying to dump it on Ebay, 10 years later..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mustan...589833892QQrdZ1


I hope we have all learned something today.. We all want the GT500.. But what it all really boils down to, since the car still has yet to prove itself as a legend, we are basically getting a S/C 5.4L engine.. Lets agree that we will pay $5000 over the price of a GT for it.. This places us at about $32K MSRP... Lets then give the dealer a $1500 markup.. This places the car at $33,500 plus tax and license.. Converts are about $36,000...

In 10 years lets hope we can get $21,688 for the car.. If the car does good in terms of a legendary track record, and wins LeMans 24Hrs a few times, maybe we can ask $26000, to an eager buyer..

 

There is a price difference between the 4.6 and the 5.4 and if the previous Cobra engine is used as a blueprint, the 5.4 will include forged internals. A top quality S/C upgrade is usually in the $7K neighborhood. Add suspension, body, interior, wheel and tire upgrades and you are right there at $40K.

 

Ok! Sounds good, $40K.. Any higher, and we all agree we will let them sit on the lot! LOL!

 

I was #1 on the local dealer's waiting list with a 2% over invoice, a courtesy extended by the dealer for several purchases I've made and a bunch of referrals I've sent. I thought about it for a while and declined due to uncertainties (see '03 Cobra, '05 GT for references).

There is a good possibility that issues will develop as it happens often with many first model year vehicles. I prefer to wait.

 

originally about 5k. This months issue of Vette has a blip about upping production to 6-8 thousand. Even though this is obviously more car than the Shelby and has collector heritage, it is losing its AMV. These cars are selling more Sticker and below. Within 2 years these could realistically be going used in the low 50s. Might be worth the wait if Shelbys really do bring 50-55.

 

ONLY if you are talking about aftermarket prices (and even then it sounds a little high). The point of an SE from the factory is you are supposed to get the good stuff at big savings. If any average Joe can replicate GT500 performance stats with a stock GT and aftermarket parts for the same money -- then I would call the GT500 a poor value. And, even at $40k, that looks to be the case, let alone $45k.

Of course, meaningless names and badges never meant much to me anyway.

 

Yeah, but you're forgetting that Ford has to factor in all the associated costs that go with those parts (i.e. assembly) AND make a profit on them as well, in order to even justify this venture.

I do believe that $40K is fair. North of $45K is questionable, UNLESS they offer all the stuff we saw on the concept in NY and then some. ADM on top of that is just a rip off for suckers.