Ford can create the capacity to manufacture more Mustangs however there are other factors that will limit that reality such as the CAFE standards. While I didn't state it well in my last post, the intent of the message was that by offering a few options such as an IRS, Ford can broaden the appeal of the GT500 while also satisfying the core demographic. Ultimately, they could make more profit per car by offering options such as the IRS as premium add-on.

They also don't weigh 3700+#. They also have better weight distribution. They also have lower centers of gravity. The list goes on....

The reality is that even with IRS, the mustang still wouldn't hold a candle to the C6, Viper, or Elise.

Why is everyone so enamered in the 450 hp stat, again you guys are getting to hung up on it? Power to weight ratio is what counts. I am guessing that the GT500 will weigh 3750+ lbs. I am trying to keep in mind that the figures you state are all hypothetical. What about the unmeasurables, such as ride comfort and the improved feel you will get with an IRS? What about a car thats easier to drive near the limits or when just driving spirited?

I am aware that Ford stated the 5K and 180# numbers. For 5K Ford better be giving us a race suspension. I don't buy those figures one bit.

Because the rear suspension has to be able to handle the 450hp, the more power and torque you are putting to the wheels, the stronger the SRA or IRS has to be.

So does the CTS-V....Take a quick look at its lap times at the Nurburgring. You can have your cake and eat it too. I am all for a lightweight Mustang, but it seems that manufacturers are using HP as a bandaid to combat the increasing weight of cars. Ford can adjust CG by using lowering springs, so that point isn't a big issue.

'04 Cobra:
3665 #
hp: 390
#/hp: 9.4 (less is better)

GT500:
est. 3700 #
hp: 450
#/hp: 8.22

You're right power to weight ratio is what counts and the GT500 bests the Cobra.

As for ride comfort. See my post near the top of the page. It has a link to the C&D review of the '05 Mustang.:
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...ic=24245&st=100

<!--QuoteBegin-max2000jp@May 19, 2005, 11:50 AM
So does the CTS-V....Take a quick look at its lap times at the Nurburgring. You can have your cake and eat it too. I am all for a lightweight Mustang, but it seems that manufacturers are using HP as a bandaid to combat the increasing weight of cars. Ford can adjust CG by using lowering springs, so that point isn't a big issue.

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The CTS-V is not in the same league as a C6, Viper, or Elise. It puts up a 0.90g from C&D which is not very much better than C&D's 0.87g from a '05 GT.

Again, quit looking at the skidpad numbers, it's not a good indicator. Did you look at the Nurburgring times? Pretty impressive for a big car.

Also, the estimated wieght I feel will be around 3800 lbs. The Mustang GT gained 100 lbs in in redesign. The 19" wheels, Brembos, and larger engine will add weight as well.

You didn't post the link.

The Nordschleife at the Nurburgring - as we've discussed here before - is a 13 mile track containing 70 curves. The following was provided:

7:52 - Gemballa Porsche 993
7:55 - GSX-R 750 -98
7:55 - Kawasaki ZX-9R
7:56 - C6 Coupe (not Z06)
7:56 - Porsche 996 GT3 (in 2000)
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo (in 2000)
7:56 - NSX Type R
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV
8:05 - 2002 Ferrari 575 Maranello
8:09 - Porsche 993 GT2
8:07 - Ferrari 550 Maranello
8:13 - Ferrari F355
8:19 - CTS - V

Pretty impressive for a car that's under-tired on runflats.

I am familiar with the track. Where did you get the numbers though?

Corvetteforum....

The big question (and one which will hopefully be answered some day) is what times would a GT500 run?

We won't know until it's tested. I know that there are a few sections of the track where the SRA is going to be a real handful.

You wouldn't happen to have anything from a more trustworthy source? Not saying they are bad numbers, but I wouldn't really trust a forum as a good source of information.

Well I know that the C5, C6, and Z06 numbers are straight from Dave Hill. They are legit if you do a google search.

Here are some more:

http://nurburgring.de/?rubrik=rekorde&lang=eng

The green times are the ones you want to look at.

I pulled a few more times
http://www.supercarfreak.net/forum/showthr...19&page=1&pp=20
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06
8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Subaru Impreza Sti spec C - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
8:11 --- Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX
8:13 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 PS (10/2004)
8:13 --- BMW M5 (E60) (12/2004)

While ring times are nice, it's certainly not the be all or end all of tests. There's a lot of variables that aren't taken into account: weather, traffic, and most of all, driver. These might explain why an EVO ran a better time than the Viper, and why the Viper is nearly 20 seconds behind the Z06. I can guarantee that you take the same Viper, Z06, and EVO to Streets of Willow, allow the same driver to test all three, the order would be totally different.

Anyways, we're getting WAY off topic.

That's how all tests are though. There are a lot of variables to factor in when you are reading magazine reviews. Unless a test was performed by a pro driver, on the same track, using the same conditions, then it's not very accurate.

Vipers are hard cars to drive. It takes a real good driver to post great lap times in one. The EVO and Z06 are easier cars to drive.

Skidpad and slalom numbers are very good indicators. Much better than a single Nurburgring time which is highly dependant on driver, weather, traffic, puddles...etc. Obviously there are other handling attributes that can't be measured through skidpad and slalom but overall they're pretty good indicators of handling ability. And certainly more repeatable/comparable.

No we can't use skidpad numbers because the Mustang GT's is higher than a 350Z. :jester: What are the slalom numbers for the two anyways?

In laymans terms, the skidpad measures the tires overall grip and the slalom shows how well the suspension reacts in transition. If you want to mag race, compare slalom mph. I honestly don't know which one is higher. The Mustang is in the mid 60s and the Z high 60s IIRC. In the end, go test drive the Z and if you have a pulse it easy to feel the difference in handling.