That's weird...I was just thinking the same thing about you!

My arguement has been consistent, rather I am getting off on tangents.

Read this:
http://www.yeald.com/Yeald/a/35231/this_mo...ir_decline.html

Yeah...tangents.
So, back on topic for a second. If the Mustang is competitive, to say the least, racing with this SRA set-up and beating IRS cars, why do you want an IRS?

The line between want and need gets fuzzier all the time.Tell me why we NEED(not want) an IRS. Mustangs have always been about bang for the buck.I don't want to lose sight of that. If you want something complicated ,but a Ferrari and get your own personal mechanic.

I'm not denying Ford and GM haven't dug themselves a hole (and a deep hole at that). I'm just not buying the argument that the SRA is symptom of a bigger problem. I believe it's the direct result of Ford marketing to the core Mustang demographic (and quite successfully I might add). In other product segments they're offering things like AWD and CVTs where the competitors don't offer them. They still haven't made a dent in import sales. What does that tell you? It tells me these techno gizmos aren't necessarily the answer as you contend. The issue is perception of quality. Ford has taken a big hit in that area and it's very tough to overcome.

You are right, I never said I had any type of internal documentation. Would you actually read my posts before you reply please.

Perception of quality is very easy to change. I will point you to Hyundai as a perfect example.

The SRA, might not be a problem, but the mentality behind it is. Technical gizmos like AWD do sell, but in the 500's case the car is underpowered, bland, and handles very poorly for a sedan(read last weeks AW). Instead of matching the competition, Ford chose to push out a mediocre product. Let me use engines as an example.... How long has Nissan been offering a 260 hp V6? Since 2002. Honda introduced a 240 hp V6 in 2003. Even Hyundai has a 265 hp engine coming out. Ford??? Last I heard 2007

Look at what Hyundai was able to produce. It looks like a great car for the money.
http://www.hyundaiazera.com/Home.aspx

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...auto-182558.htm

According to this article, the 500 tied with the Nissan Maxima for best large cars. It sounds like they're doing something right even it is underpowered.

You know, I have been wondering why the G6 sales haven't been better, it won it's category. It also has the most powerful base engine in it's class, actually every other car in it's class starts with a 4-cylinder I believe.

I wouldn't call the Five Hundred mediocre. It does offer 5-star safety on a Volvo Chassis, AWD, 6-speed or CVT Transmission (not sure for how much longer on the CVT). Our Limited stickered for ~28K, which is a good buy. They aren't selling them to fleets in HUGE numbers ~10-14% compared to ~24-25 for the 300. I'm not sure on the Camry's fleet numbers but they are higher than Fords. Heck one of the main reasons Ford bought Hertz was to use it as a source to dump their vehicle they produced as opposed to paying workers, suppliers for not producing anything.

The Chicago Twins have been increasingly selling higher each month.

I agree the 3.5 would have been a much better engine and Ford should of had it ready for launch, but Mr. Nasser was busy buying up other car companies, and other ventures that he didn't focus on future Fords. What was Bill to do? Wait until the 3.5 was available for the Five Hundred? And sit on the Taurus?

In my opinion Ford did what it had to do given the options on the table. The Mustang, and GT created good car buzz (darn those TSB's on the GT), and Five Hundred has at least put some life back into a depleted car lineup, and if the Fusion can come off as a hit, the styling direction of the Five Hundred in 2007 with the 3.5 should continue the momentum for Ford. Long term . . it just might work. Heck look at Mighty Toyota and the ~780,000 recall, and Prius "quitting" issues they are having.

Because, like Ford, GM is facing that perception problem that Max2000jp discounts. They can put competitive vehicles out yet they don't sell without heavy incentives or fleet sales.

Finally! Someone who fully comprehends the situation! :worship:

The G6 is a step in the right direction, but it still doesn't match the imports. Sit in a G6 and then an Accord. The Accord uses better materials. If thats the quality you are talking about, I agree 100%.

:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

The 500 is definetly a step in the right direction. In fact, if they did a few simple things they could definetly have a winner on their hands. Ford needs to upgrade the suspension and put stickier A/S tires on the car. Next, they need a 260+ V6 in it. Lastly, transplant a Fusion-like front facia on it. The interior is quite nice.

The problem I have is that Ford is playing catch up(and they are way behind). When the 3.5L VQ came out, Ford should have started development on a similar enigne. When the 500 was given the green light, development should have been pushed. I mean how long does it take to design an engine? Definetly not as long as Ford has taken.

Wow...you've actually admitted that Ford is moving in the right direction. Hope springs eternal. :-D

Most of the improvements regarding the 500 that you mentioned are in the works. Maybe they should have been done in the beginning but you have to remember that the old Ford would have just heavily discounted the 500 to move it instead of improving it. To me, that's a sign that the "good enough" attitude IS changing.

The words I highlighted are the reason why I still feel Ford has that attitude. Sure it is changing, but it needs to be gone. In regards to the 500, if those changes happened at launch, I wouldn't be of the opinion I am.

I was planning on doing a comparison of features and specs of cars, but it didn't really work out. The criteria for the comparison was that it had to be 2 door coupe starting under $30,000, be capable of sitting 4 passengers and have at least 250 hp. The Mustang GT was the only one that fit in the above criteria. Did I miss another car that met those?

Mazda and Nissan didn't reverse their misfortunes overnight.

Bingo! As an employee of a very, very large corporation, I know for a fact that changes move like a glacier, especially when it comes to a shift in the business "culture". Bill Ford realized that the old Nasser way of doing business wasn't working and he's moving toward changing it but it won't happen overnight. It could be that's too late for Ford, who knows? :dunno: But at least he's making the attempt to change it and I'll give him kudos for that.

Just for the record, I think an IRS in the Mustang would be great. But I don't have a problem with a well designed SRA and it wouldn't keep me from buying.

actually, that V6 has been used in Nissan for over ten years (won top ten best engine award every year the award has been given out) They just add and replace components. They've been adding hp to it every years it seems