IMO, Ford is losing market share for two reasons:

1. quality issues

2. an aging lineup of car offerings

The 500 (bland though it may be) and the Fusion are addressing #2. #1 is a deeper problem that Ford needs to address, although I believe much of it is perception more than reality.

I don't believe the SRA is symptomatic of anything other Ford trying to hit their demographic. Right or wrong, the perception is that more Mustang owners go fast in a straight line rather than through the curves.

Since it might have been missed earlier I thought that I would repost a snip from the C&D review on the '05 Mustang:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...8&page_number=2
C&D recorded a 0.87g on the '05 Gt. If history is any indication, then the GT500 will only be better.

Basically my point is that the current MGT already is a fairly good handling car. The GT500 will likely improve upon it. So how much could a IRS improve upon that? HTT has stated that IRS would add $5k, 180# and is only marginally better. IMO, I could care less about spending $5k for a marginal improvement.

It has a lot more to do than that.....Quality is a minor one. American car companies are simply for the most part, out of touch with the market.

That's where the ageing line-up of cars comes in...or did you miss that part?

Aging is also where the SRA part comes in - the SRA is arcane technology that no-one uses on automobiles anymore. Sorry, no-one but Ford. So again, it's a valid symptom of your assertion that Ford has an aging line-up of cars.

But it also has to do with attitude, or as max2000jp correctly points out, Ford being out of touch with the desires of consumers. Consumers today want quality, reliability and STUFF.

There's no excuse not to have options for the Mustang that include heated seats, mirrors, dual climate control and navigation. Sub compact econo-boxes are getting these features now...why not the Mustang? Just because Skeeter from the trailer park says it doesn't "belong" on a go-fast, straight line car? Gimmie a break.

It all comes down to whom is Ford targeting with the Mustang...and why. And I think it's becoming more and more clear who that is...which is too bad, because I think the car could have broader, longer lasting, and possibly international appeal, were Ford to offer a more "complete," globally competitive Stang. But again, this is part of the company's myopic approach to the marketplace: Ford doesn't give car buyers what they want...they give them what they think is good enough.

Today, "good enough" will get you a one-way ticket to an extinction event.

It's a pity Ford isn't as in-touch with car buyers as it is with truck buyers. It spends so much time concentrating on the latter - which is now a falling market share - that it thinks car buyers want truck axles in their cars, too!

Back to the original topic:

Did anyone think HTT might be playing to the crowd?

Of course Hot Rod will support the SRA -- look at what their pub and their follow up quote about how most of their readers will approve the SRA decision.

I just find it very interesting that HTT started off saying "the next gen Cobra will have IRS" and now he is saying "we will never be able to appease the IRS snobs." Wasn't he an "IRS snob"?

In one of the other pubs (C&D IIRC), they had a very good summation of the pro-IRS debate and lamented the decision. So the publications are having the exact same debate we are.

The hard-core, "hp is king" camp will always want the SRA. And those wanting a more well rounded car will want the IRS (though one that is done well -- not the old Cobra or Z, but more like the RX8, G35, and 330i's of the world).

To be fair, I'm happy to wait till the car comes out, and then see what the automotive journalists have to say once they've put it through its paces.

But if the vast majority lament the SRA at that point, I think the debate will be over and the IRS supporters will be declared the victors in this argument.

I'm surprised at HTT's comments too. To go from "the next generation Cobra will have IRS" and "The BMW M3 is our competition benchmark" to "We'll never appease the IRS snobs," strikes me as odd at best and bipolar at worst.

Okay, let me spell this out for you since some of you take awhile to comprehend it. The fact that the GT500 has a SRA and not an IRS rear suspension has ZERO affect on the rest of their car sales. If you don't believe, why don't you go down to your local Ford dealership and ask every person that comes in whether or not the type of suspension in the GT500 will effect whether they will decide to buy a Five Hundred or a Camry. Do you know how rediculous that sounds? Ford will sell every single GT500 they make and probably at a premium. What they need to improve is the rest of their car line. When I go shopping for a car, I do research on and evaluate the cars I am looking, not the freaking halo cars for their respective companies. I swear, you guys are trying to dig up stuff that doesn't exist. Also, take into consideration, Ford sales have been hurting long before they unveiled the GT500, and long before they unveiled the new Mustang as well. So how do you explain why Ford was having problems when the Cobra did have an IRS? Oh I guess it was just bad luck then.

This topic has taken on a life of its own and will continue with or without me. I'm going to drop out because opinions haven't nor will they ever change as far as I can tell. But I will leave with this last comment: if Ford is so out of touch with Mustang buyers, why is demand so high? Do you honestly believe if they added heated seats, they'd sell another 50,000? It seems to me Ford is dead-on with the Mustang market. They give us a car that's "good enough" as you say because it's the car the market wants at the right price. I suspect buyers like you that want all the gizmos and gagdets are a vast miniority in the big scheme of things and Ford knows it. The sales numbers just don't bear out your assertions. After all, Ford puts heated seats, et al into vehicles that have a different market segment where there is an actual demand for such things.

With that, I bid you all adieu and wish you good luck with this never-ending argument.

I for one could careless if this new Cobra has IRS or not. I myself will never race my GT500 when I get one. It will be my daily driver with little to no mods on it. My opinion is for every person not buying a GT500 due to it not having an IRS....you'll have 4 others waiting in line because they could care less what suspension it has. People will buy it because they like it, it'll have oggles of hp, and a great Retro styling, not because it has an IRS. The Mustang has ALWAYS been the best bang for the buck car. People are b***hing now because of the potential price hike from dealerships. If you'd tack on the extra $3k+ for IRS, the price would be even higher. Do you people honestly think that HTT cares that maybe 1000 Cobra owners won't buy the new Cobra because it doesn't have IRS knowing Ford will cover that number plus more in people wanting to buy this car because of everything else? Someone earlier asked the question would I buy a Mustang GT with IRS for $25k? Sure I would, but the only $25k IRS '05 Mustang GT would be a used one because that Mustang would cost $28k+ new due to the IRS. Guys, this vehicle isn't even out yet. The GT500 you see is a CONCEPT. When the production model hits the showroom floors and all the Mag racer articles come out with all the so called "factual" performance numbers, then criticize or praise all you want. I love the GT500 whether it has IRS or not. I'd prefer to pay less for my GT500 than pay $3k+ for one with an option I could careless about. Hopefully in the future Ford will have an option for the IRS in the Cobra for you people who want one. Then Ford would have a product that everyone would like......nah, you freaks would probably b***h about something else. :-D

I dropped out of the convo a while ago....but I do have one thing to add.
It'll probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

Think about this:

Let's say you add the IRS for a 5000 addition over onto the car.
(don't crap me about the numbers, this is just a comparison to get the idea)

-would you rather alienate the couple hundred buyers by NOT adding the IRS
(and at this time it would be unknown as stated, but a good guestimate that regardless, there will be people who will buy it knowing full well it'll out perform the previous gen...SRA/IRS asside)
or
-would you rather alienate the couple thousand buyers by upping the price from 40,000 to 45,000

Some people may think 5,000 isn't much when it comes to that price car. For some, your right...but for most....your wrong.
5000 is a big difference in price.

And just keep this in mind.
The previous generation mustangs had a lot of nice additions over time as the platform paid for itself over and over.

This car's platform is new, and yes Ford has to follow a BUDGET...this may not ring within your ears, but you don't run the company.

Honestly, If you are trying to be a smart hiney, go somewhere else. Did you miss the part where the competition is updating their cars every couple of years? Again, it's goes back to Ford being out of touch with the market place.

My .02:
IRS DONE RIGHT would have been very nice. It is not life-or-death for me. I think that when HTT said those words "IRS Snobs" he was trying to accomplish 3 things:
keep the car relatively inexpensive, and justify this decision;
play to the Hot Rod crowd;
open up the minds of IRS followers.
Lets not forget that the Ford Mustang just wiped BMW's (M3) and Porche's (996) butts in the last race.
With a spruce log out back.
What do I believe? This car with the spruce log will pull about 1g. Call me crazy, or quote me later. :-D

Well you can keep living in fantasy land, but I have facts to prove my point. Pick up an Automotive News and flip to the back, then look at the sales figures. The Mustang is the exception. People will always buy Mustangs because of the brand recognition. The last generation of the Stang was a peice of junk by modern car standards, but it sold.

I would have bought heated seats as well as many others whom live in a cold climate. You can get them in other coupes in the Mustangs price range.

Do those coupes also have 300 hp and 320 ft-lbs of torque, the answer is no. You can't have everything. And heated seats can easily be added via the aftermarket. There have been a couple people on this forum that had them installed by the dealer.

Do you guys not understand the concept of "optional"? It doesn't add to the base MSRP. I am sure many people in the midwest and northeast would have checked that option. The 350Z has 287 hp and you can get heated seats. You also get an IRS and HIDs in the Enthusiast.

Yes, increasing the number of options does increase the base MSRP.

And the base 350Z Enthusiast has a base MSRP of $29,330. The Mustang GT outhandles the the Enthusiast version.

And you can keep living in the fantasy land where you're the champion for all the fictional disillusioned would-be Mustang buyers that aren't buying it because it doesn't have heated seats and dual-zone climate control. I'm sorry, but they just don't exist in any number for Ford to pay attention to them. Just as you state, the Mustang is the exception. To me, that says something. Ford came out with a car that is dead-on with what the general public (and apparantely the automotive press) consider to be the essence of "Mustang-ness" (wow..I just made up a word!). It has struck the right cord with the buying public. You can deny it all you want but Ford hit the bulls-eye with the Mustang. Yes, brand recognition is a part of it. But what if Ford had taken a similar path that GM did with the GTO? IMO, the Mustang wouldn't be the sales success it is now and you'd be whining that it should have had more "Mustang-ness".

So you are telling me that adding an already engineered system which is readily available is going to increase the MSRP? Ford could have charged 300 dollars, made a profit, and covered all its added costs. I guess using your logic that by adding the Cobra, the base MSRP will increase for the Mustang :rolleyes:

How does adding a new car use my logic, I am talking about options. :rolleyes: