BlackRiderX

I could be wrong, but I honestly don't see Ford waiting two whole years before bringing out a more upscale Stang - whether it's a special edition or the Cobra. Not with a 400 bhp M3 coming out September '05 and god only knows what else from other manufacturers for the '06 model year.

Two years is too long for Ford - or any manufacturer in today's competitive marketplace - to sit back on their laurels, IMHO. Also, since they're already testing the Cobra, I don't believe they'll need two more years to bring it to market.

I think the GT will stand by itself for a year, then we'll see a more upscale version bow in '06. [/b][/quote]
I agree. Everyone also has to remember that the Cobra never followed a set in stone release plan like the v6 and Gt models usually do. They could release it next Christmas if they wanted to and call it a 2006.

BillP

300hp + 20% = 360hp, not 320....

Steve

300hp + 20% = 360hp, not 320.... [/b][/quote]
Well, the word was "as high as" - realistically, he was saying that most likely, we'll see GT's in the 320-325 hp realm.

360 would be nice but that HP rating will most likely be in an SE, such as a Boss or a Mach.

Good point though.

Dan

I agree. Everyone also has to remember that the Cobra never followed a set in stone release plan like the v6 and Gt models usually do. They could release it next Christmas if they wanted to and call it a 2006. [/b][/quote]
FYI: I said an SE would probably not come out till 06 as an 07, not the Cobra. I actually believe Ford will get the Cobra out a.s.a.p.

BillP

Yes, but 325 horsepower is already here, with minor tweaks. My car is running at/around that with a mild SCT tune and removal of the HC trap.

Steve

Yes, but 325 horsepower is already here, with minor tweaks. My car is running at/around that with a mild SCT tune and removal of the HC trap. [/b][/quote]
No Bill, 325 RATED GT horsepower is NOT already here. They come from the factory RATED at 300.

And while they are RATED at 300 hp, the 3 valve is certainly capable of more - so is ANY engine with the right mods. But when they come from the factory rated at 325, then most likely with the mods you have done you will be good for 350 hp.

See the difference?

And how do you know you actually do have 325 hp? Did you run it at the track? Dyno it? A gain of 25 HP is certainly doable but maybe you got an additional 10 or maybe you got 35 - how do you know for sure you got ~325?

One thing is for certain - never, EVER believe that just buying something and bolting it on will give you a FOR SURE "X" number of additional horsepower. Believe it when you see it in actual, measurable results.

Dan

Bill had it dynoed.

V10

A little bit of history for you guys:

The Mach 1 was sort of a general purpose street performance version of the Mustang in 69 & 70. As was noted above it was sold with 3 different engines and the Mach 1 was sold in large #s. It was not intended to be a race car per say, but as we know a lot of them made it to the drag strips.

The Boss 302 was made specifically so Ford could race it in the Trans-Am road race series. Back in the "good old days" race cars were modified street cars, not the funny cars that NASCAR and todays Trans-Am use that have NO relationship to the street car other than the name plate.

To race in the Trans-Am you had to sell at least 5,000 cars of the exact same configuration that the street car had. This included the engine block, heads AND the race car had to use the EXACT same bore and stroke as the street car did. In the 60s and early 70s, Trans-AM race cars had to be made from production street cars including the unibody and ALL sheet metal down to the grille and tail lights. Today's Speed World Challenge is the closest race series today as the Trans-Am of the 1960s. The "Boy Racer" 2005 Mustang is very much like a Trans-Am car from the 1960s.

The Boss 429 was made strictly to get NASCAR to approve the Boss 429 engine for NASCAR racing. At that time NASCAR required that the manufacturer sold at least 600 engines per year in street cars of a similar (but not exactly the same) design as the race engine. They did not require that the engine be sold in the same model that was raced in NASCAR. Ford raced Torinos and Montegos in NASCAR, but they were NEVER sold with Boss 429s in them

mercury

A little bit of history for you guys:

The Mach 1 was sort of a general purpose street performance version of the Mustang in 69 & 70. As was noted above it was sold with 3 different engines and the Mach 1 was sold in large #s. It was not intended to be a race car per say, but as we know a lot of them made it to the drag strips.

The Boss 302 was made specifically so Ford could race it in the Trans-Am road race series. Back in the "good old days" race cars were modified street cars, not the funny cars that NASCAR and todays Trans-Am use that have NO relationship to the street car other than the name plate.

To race in the Trans-Am you had to sell at least 5,000 cars of the exact same configuration that the street car had. This included the engine block, heads AND the race car had to use the EXACT same bore and stroke as the street car did. In the 60s and early 70s, Trans-AM race cars had to be made from production street cars including the unibody and ALL sheet metal down to the grille and tail lights. Today's Speed World Challenge is the closest race series today as the Trans-Am of the 1960s. The "Boy Racer" 2005 Mustang is very much like a Trans-Am car from the 1960s.

The Boss 429 was made strictly to get NASCAR to approve the Boss 429 engine for NASCAR racing. At that time NASCAR required that the manufacturer sold at least 600 engines per year in street cars of a similar (but not exactly the same) design as the race engine. They did not require that the engine be sold in the same model that was raced in NASCAR. Ford raced Torinos and Montegos in NASCAR, but they were NEVER sold with Boss 429s in them [/b][/quote]
My memory may be going but I remember an article a few years back saying a handful of Mercury Cyclones getting Shotgun motors.
It may be along the lines of the rare and elusive 427 Cougar.

Wolfie351

What if that automatic had a real clutch and paddle shifters? If they put in a regular converter type of automatic, I will agree with your statement.

Steve

My view is this - IF (and I said "IF") Ford does indeed offer a high-performance automatic in the Cobra (paddle shifters or not), they will sell more cars. No, I would not want one - but there is a market out there for automatic transmission equipped performance automobiles and thus, an auto-equipped Cobra would sell; possibly OUTsell the manual if the transmission is done right.

Just my opinion but I think it's valid reasoning.

crazyhorse

What if that automatic had a real clutch and paddle shifters? If they put in a regular converter type of automatic, I will agree with your statement. [/b][/quote]
I don't know of any real clutches and paddle shifters. usually the SMGs have no user activated clutch. They are a regular clutch, but, controlled by the tranny.

crazyhorse

I agree that they would sell more cars, but don't agree that it would be more than the manual. The tiptronics don't outsell the manuals in 911s (last I looked it up anyway).

I hope they do offer one, as long as it is optional. I want a traditional manual.

TomServo92

I would agree with that reasoning as well. Offering new options that brings in a whole new customer segment is not lame. It's good business sense from Ford and will help keep the Cobra viable in the marketplace.

slegos888

I agree that they would sell more cars, but don't agree that it would be more than the manual. The tiptronics don't outsell the manuals in 911s (last I looked it up anyway).

I hope they do offer one, as long as it is optional. I want a traditional amnual. [/b][/quote]
you are correct but a porsche is not a straight line racer its made for the twisties!! thats where a manual will own! but in a straightl line especially when speaking of high performance like the cobra an automatic will be more consistant and will outshift most good manual drivers! since thats what the mustang tends to do is drag race the cobra with an auto tranny will sell like stated above alot and quite possibly more then the manual!

crazyhorse

you are correct but a porsche is not a straight line racer its made for the twisties!! thats where a manual will own! but in a straightl line especially when speaking of high performance like the cobra an automatic will be more consistant and will outshift most good manual drivers! since thats what the mustang tends to do is drag race the cobra with an auto tranny will sell like stated above alot and quite possibly more then the manual! [/b][/quote]
I agree that a lot of Mustang owners drag race theirs, but, the Cobra is designed more for road racing. that is why it has IRS. They are supposedly going after the M3 with the next Cobra, which is also a "track" car and not drag car.

In truth, most Mustang owners don't race at all. They are performance enthusiast. For most Cobra buyers that are buying as enthusiast, they want that "connected" feel of a traditional manual.

I understand that SMG shifts more quickly and might cut a few tenths of a second off your lap time or even 1/4 mile time. But I still think more buyers are more into the sports car feel of the clutch.

V10

Some of you guys seem to be missing the point.

With the paddle shifter, we're not talking about an auto. What it is is a manual trannie that is shifted by hitting the paddle, not moving a normal shift lever. It uses a regular manual clutch and a regular manual trannie that has solenoids to select the gears instead of a shift lever.

hatsharpener

I'd like to believe it all, but some things just don't sit well! Here's to hoping

crazyhorse

I really don't think they have a manual clutch. Not with a foot pedal anyway. It has a clutch with pressure plates and so forth as opposed to the torque converter type like regular automatics use, but, it is controlled by the computer and tranny, not the driver. If you want to shift, you hit the paddle and the tranny does the rest (quickly, I might add).

crazyhorse

From bmwworld.com:

The new SMG II gearbox has these features and benefits:

You can choose between two shift modes, the sequential ("S") mode or the automated ("A") mode.
"Drivelogic" allows you to individually match the SMG's shift characteristic to your preferred driving habits, with eleven different driving programs.
When downshifting, the engine will automatically double-declutch.
There is no need for a clutch, clutch pedal or torque converter.
It is easy to select the optimum shift point with the "shift lights", LEDs in the cockpit indicating the optimum shift point on the tachometer.
With SMG, you can use S mode (sequential manual) or A mode (automated). The "A" Mode was called "E" Mode (economy) in SMG I.

A Mode provides the convenience of an automatic transmission for start and stop driving, while S Mode provides lightning fast gear shifts even with the accelerator pedal fully depressed.

You can easily perform a racing start! Select the S mode, push the gear lever forward, and depress the accelerator.

You can change modes "on the fly" at any time.



Other than sheer driving pleasure, there are many benefits to using SMG:

The life of the clutch, gearbox and drive line components are extended due to the precise control of clutch and gear actuation.
SMG uses less horsepower, provides better fuel efficiency, is lighter, less complex and cheaper to manufacture.
Since there is no clutch pedal, SMG reduces driver fatique