flapjack

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ February 16, 2006, 6:20 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Be prepared to back this up some day buddy! I sure hope that Procharger makes good use of those 42Lbs injectors!
[/b][/quote]

Geez man... just curious as to why he chose it. I'm not sure what exactly I have to "back up", but I'm pretty sure my kit will put out a few more ponies, if that's what you're talking about! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PaulC @ February 16, 2006, 7:50 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
My biggest concern is screwing up the tap needed to get at the oil.

I am leaning towards Vortech because of the customer service problems I have read about with the ProCharger folks.
[/b][/quote]

If that's the only thing holding you back, just go through a reseller like RPM Outlet. They provide injectors, pump, tuner, tunes, etc.... all your customer service needs go through them.

Belial ordered directly through ProCharger, which is why he had problems.

05V6inMD

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 16, 2006, 5:34 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Geez man... just curious as to why he chose it. I'm not sure what exactly I have to "back up", but I'm pretty sure my kit will put out a few more ponies, if that's what you're talking about! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
See my new thread on the Procharger. I may be switching camps. Due diligence continues.

flapjack

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackLX4.0 @ February 16, 2006, 3:21 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I really don't see what could be so hard about them. I'm not paying anyone $2000 for something I could do myself. If I get the Pipeline I'll be doing it myself. So far I've done every mod on my car myself except the rearend work. And I'm no mechanic.
[/b][/quote]

+1

I've seen too many shops, even "good" shops, jerry-rig stuff because they broke something or stipped a bolt during a repair/installation. Luckily, I have a lot of experience in mechanical stuff, so finding their goofs has been easy. I can guarantee I'm 100% incapable of finding everything they've done wrong.

heck, I had a top-of-the-line shop install a waterpump in my old Chevy Lumina. They stripped every darn bolt going into that thing, so they forced bolts with a different (coarser) thread in there to compensate. When the pump died again a few years later, I had a female dog of a time getting them out... not to mention all the time I had to spend "properly" tapping out new threads and finding new bolts for it.

Now, I'm the proud owner of a complete tap and die set. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PaulC @ February 16, 2006, 5:36 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
See my new thread on the Procharger. I may be switching camps. Due diligence continues.
[/b][/quote]

Checking it out now.

forced

The majority of our Mustang systems are installed by the user...having second thoughts?
Check out the installation manual...
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/pdf/ma...fu218_v6_im.pdf
Also keep in mind if you have a shop install it...you can go back to them if you have any issues.
As for a tune needed...if you buy our complete system, it comes with a tune (Diablosport Predator) which will work perfect, no custom tune needed. We spend a ton of time and money on these tunes. Who has the better hardware? Who supplies superchargers to an OE Manufacturer?

Vortech.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

Thomas S

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 20, 2006, 7:51 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The majority of our Mustang systems are installed by the user...having second thoughts?
Check out the installation manual...
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/pdf/ma...fu218_v6_im.pdf
Also keep in mind if you have a shop install it...you can go back to them if you have any issues.
As for a tune needed...if you buy our complete system, it comes with a tune (Diablosport Predator) which will work perfect, no custom tune needed. We spend a ton of time and money on these tunes. Who has the better hardware? Who supplies superchargers to an OE Manufacturer?

Vortech.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Step # 2, C: [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]

flapjack

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackLX4.0 @ February 20, 2006, 8:14 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Step # 2, C: [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Tell me about it... especially when a self-cooled system keeps temperatures so much lower. It hardly seems worth the risk.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 20, 2006, 7:51 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The majority of our Mustang systems are installed by the user...having second thoughts?
Check out the installation manual...
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/pdf/ma...fu218_v6_im.pdf
Also keep in mind if you have a shop install it...you can go back to them if you have any issues.
As for a tune needed...if you buy our complete system, it comes with a tune (Diablosport Predator) which will work perfect, no custom tune needed. We spend a ton of time and money on these tunes. Who has the better hardware? Who supplies superchargers to an OE Manufacturer?

Vortech.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Not to put you on the chopping block, because your customer service seems top-notch, but I have to ask some questions regarding the tune.

1) How can one tune fit all? Do you provide custom tunes free for the life of the system like RPMOutlet? How can you be sure your tune is good for any particular setup? (ie: location/altitude, other mods, etc...)

2) I've heard MSP mention several times he thinks his setup is running rich. Is this overcompensation to ensure a user doesn't run too lean and damage his engine? ...are you doing anything to improve his tune? I know he's talking about having his car dyno-tuned. I just wonder if this is a matter of preference... or a matter of necessity.

forced

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 20, 2006, 5:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Tell me about it... especially when a self-cooled system keeps temperatures so much lower. It hardly seems worth the risk.
Not to put you on the chopping block, because your customer service seems top-notch, but I have to ask some questions regarding the tune.

1) How can one tune fit all? Do you provide custom tunes free for the life of the system like RPMOutlet? How can you be sure your tune is good for any particular setup? (ie: location/altitude, other mods, etc...)

2) I've heard MSP mention several times he thinks his setup is running rich. Is this overcompensation to ensure a user doesn't run too lean and damage his engine? ...are you doing anything to improve his tune? I know he's talking about having his car dyno-tuned. I just wonder if this is a matter of preference... or a matter of necessity.
[/b][/quote]

The maintenance-free lubrication system uses engine oil that is pre-filtered and injected directly onto the drive gears. We chose this configuration as opposed to a "self-contained" set-up because engine oil provides faster warm-up, excellent reliability and superior cooling. The lubrication oil benefits from continuous filtration, being routinely changed along with the engine oil (instead of an additional maintenance action). This system also offers the best opportunity for thermally stable operation. Vortech firmly believes this is the best method to feed and care for a supercharger.

As for the tunes...keep in mind that the tune is for "stock" cars...if you have a modded car you buy a "tuner" system which does not have injectors or a tuneup. Costs less and then you go out and get a tune. I just don't want the feeling here to be that if you purchase a Vortech complete system, you need to get on the dyno. Not true. If that was true, what would be the point of selling a complete smog legal package?

As for MSP...he should chime in any time about his setup. I think he is still getting used to boost, his car and the Predator.

flapjack

forced:

Thanks for the insightful reply. I guess I personally don't agree with the choice in oil cooling, but it seems both ways have their benefits. For me, the only benefit I can see from using oil from the engine is filtration and cost. I still think it's too hot for the supercharger, and the added heat will be passed onto the air charge.

Anyways, I wasn't aware that if your vehicle was modified, you wouldn't get a custom tune. I guess the only reason I'd expect that is for going through RPM Outlet instead of ProCharger directly.

screaminyellin6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 21, 2006, 6:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The maintenance-free lubrication system uses engine oil that is pre-filtered and injected directly onto the drive gears. We chose this configuration as opposed to a "self-contained" set-up because engine oil provides faster warm-up, excellent reliability and superior cooling. The lubrication oil benefits from continuous filtration, being routinely changed along with the engine oil (instead of an additional maintenance action). This system also offers the best opportunity for thermally stable operation. Vortech firmly believes this is the best method to feed and care for a supercharger.

As for the tunes...keep in mind that the tune is for "stock" cars...if you have a modded car you buy a "tuner" system which does not have injectors or a tuneup. Costs less and then you go out and get a tune. I just don't want the feeling here to be that if you purchase a Vortech complete system, you need to get on the dyno. Not true. If that was true, what would be the point of selling a complete smog legal package?

As for MSP...he should chime in any time about his setup. I think he is still getting used to boost, his car and the Predator.
[/b][/quote]


So Forced... if you just have gears done on the car for instance... someone could still purchase the "Complete" kit and simply use the predator that comes with it to make the adjustment? What about other mod's like exhaust?

MSP

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 21, 2006, 3:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>


As for MSP...he should chime in any time about his setup. I think he is still getting used to boost, his car and the Predator.
[/b][/quote]


Forced is correct.. Please refer here to post # 116 in which I sum up the tune...

http://american-speed.com/collective/forum...hp?t=14&page=12

Also, I have another surprise for you later on today.. I'll post when the info is ready to be viewed!!

Goliath

lol MSP, your 'surprises' are terrible because you're so excited about them that you hint very specifically at what they are [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img], but either way i still await anxiously to see what it could be [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

Why don't injectors come with the tuner package? regardless of engine mods won't the tune lean out pretty bad if you don't get the bigger injectors?

forced

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(screaminyellin6 @ February 21, 2006, 7:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
So Forced... if you just have gears done on the car for instance... someone could still purchase the "Complete" kit and simply use the predator that comes with it to make the adjustment? What about other mod's like exhaust?
[/b][/quote]
The Predator will allow gear and tire size changes. for exhaust...a cat-back will not affect the tune...when you get headers in the mix...you will need to verify air/fuel is good. With the Predator that we send we allow up to 20% fuel addition at WOT and 20% timing decrease at WOT.

screaminyellin6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 22, 2006, 1:00 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The Predator will allow gear and tire size changes. for exhaust...a cat-back will not affect the tune...when you get headers in the mix...you will need to verify air/fuel is good. With the Predator that we send we allow up to 20% fuel addition at WOT and 20% timing decrease at WOT.
[/b][/quote]


GREAT !! Thanks .. just wanted to be sure [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

screaminyellin6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 22, 2006, 1:00 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The Predator will allow gear and tire size changes. for exhaust...a cat-back will not affect the tune...when you get headers in the mix...you will need to verify air/fuel is good. With the Predator that we send we allow up to 20% fuel addition at WOT and 20% timing decrease at WOT.
[/b][/quote]

@ FORCED -
I called Vortech with a question I had and mentioned my 3.73 gears and they stated the programmer has the gear adjustment option locked out and that the speedo/odom will be off once flashed with the Vortech tune... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img] So who is right?

forced

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(screaminyellin6 @ February 23, 2006, 9:56 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
@ FORCED -
I called Vortech with a question I had and mentioned my 3.73 gears and they stated the programmer has the gear adjustment option locked out and that the speedo/odom will be off once flashed with the Vortech tune... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img] So who is right?
[/b][/quote]

Wow, I guess we have some information issues here...That option is not locked on the Predator. you can change the gear ratio, but you also have to change the revolution for the tires....This seems to work on some cars and on others the car has fail safe issues...we are looking into it.

screaminyellin6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(forced @ February 23, 2006, 1:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Wow, I guess we have some information issues here...That option is not locked on the Predator. you can change the gear ratio, but you also have to change the revolution for the tires....This seems to work on some cars and on others the car has fail safe issues...we are looking into it.
[/b][/quote]


Thanks... it would just seem to me that the vast majority of people purchasing a s/c have also already done gears on their stangs. It would be counter productive to not allow for someone to make that adjustment and simply have them drive around adding extra mileage to their odometer and speedo. I have not heard of this being an issue with any other power adders...Getting a custom tune would also not be the solution to some buyers because they would have an added expense of a whole tune just for a diablo adjustment.

Please let us know what you find out ... we are anxious to hear [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

flapjack

I'm not sure how many people wanting to install a power adder like a supercharger would want to change their gears, too... (IMHO, 3.73/4.10s would be too tall for such a setup), but I cannot imagine a tuner with those capabilities blocked out.

I'm sure it's a mistake.

Part of the cost of the supercharger is the inclusion of a tuner. If functionality is going to be removed, it should be reflected in the total kit price.

TJ06

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 23, 2006, 9:47 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm not sure how many people wanting to install a power adder like a supercharger would want to change their gears, too... (IMHO, 3.73/4.10s would be too tall for such a setup), but I cannot imagine a tuner with those capabilities blocked out.

I'm sure it's a mistake.

Part of the cost of the supercharger is the inclusion of a tuner. If functionality is going to be removed, it should be reflected in the total kit price.
[/b][/quote]

Flap I have to disagree with you, a gear is the way to go 3.73 or 4.10 with a centi type supercharger since it doesn’t make boost down low, the gear will get the car off the line (N.A) and in the high RPM boost range faster of a centi charger faster making more boost, HP & TQ vs. the car with a 3.31.

The car with the 373 or 4.10 running a centi Procharger supercharger and sticky tires and all other things being equal will run a better ET than a car running a 3.31.

The turbo from MPH is different.

flapjack

If anything, it'll probably be along the line of a few tenths... and to me, it would not be worth the loss in MPG.

TJ06

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 24, 2006, 7:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
If anything, it'll probably be along the line of a few tenths... and to me, it would not be worth the loss in MPG.
[/b][/quote]


Flap it's pretty much a given 4.10's over 3.31 is about 4 tenths improvement N.A alone 300HP avg car, now you have to factor in you will be the boost faster making more HP & TQ vs. the car with 3.31's going down the track now how many more tenths can we add to the 4 tenths for a final better ET time? I mean your talking possibly a half second or better ET.