Little Black Pony

Hey gang,

I have finally started to gather the parts necessary to upgrade my V6 to the GT brakes. I've been talking about this for months now and finally have the time to pursue it.

All you need is four parts -- That's it. Two GT Brake Brackets and two GT front brake rotors. Easy enough. I just got the brackets from my parts dept. I think the parts retail for about $28 each. There is no R or L it's the same part either side. (for those wondering and haven't been up on the previous discussions, the backing plate and calipers are the same for V6 and GT)

Here are photos of the GT Bracket.

This is the bracket along with new mounting screws and the box.


This is just the part number.



This is the back side of the bracket. After I take the V6 ones off i'll get a photo of them for side by side comparison.



The last two are the TRW logo and the S197 GT cast into the edge of the bracket.



(Note: the V6 part has "S197 V6" cast into the bracket.)



I have the GT rotors on the way from newtakeoff.com. They only cost $39.99 for the pair, it's a steal! Compare that to about $85 to $90 from the parts department for ONE! Shipping with FedEx is a bit pricey but still cost me less than on new GT Rotor. I was considering getting Powerslot rotors but I'm doing this upgrade on a strict budget. Buybrakes.com has the best price on slotted GT rotors at $256.52 for the pair and free shipping.



I'll update more later as I get the install set-up.

mhconley

Cool - nice to know this can be done so easily and inexpensively. Keep us posted.

Martin

slowjoe24

Good Info!! Please do post more after the install.......I'm about to do the same project!!

Little Black Pony

Ok, so the new brake set-up has been on the car for a few hours now. WOW! huge difference.

I did a few simulated panic stops and I nearly got whiplash each time. Also, this is the first time I have readily felt the ABS kicking in under hard braking. So they are doing their job much better. Most of the benefits will be seen over time with more brake surface area and better heat dissipation. I can't wait to try them out on the track. My next upgrade will be the braided stainless steel brake lines, and mild performance brake pads.

On to the remainder or the conversion photos.

Here is the parts explosion.



This is the V6 Bracket. It has S197 V6 cast into it for easy identification.



This is the height different between to GT and V6 caliper bracket. It's about 1/2 to 3/4 inches. I didn't think to measure it at the time. Yes, the V6 one is very dirty. I need to clean my brakes more. DOH! you caught me being lazy. HAH!



This is the view from the top. No difference in these dimensions. The V6 looks shorter but it's a trick of the camera.



Here's a comparison between the V6 rotor (on top) compared to the GT Rotor (on bottom). A little more meat and surface area to work with.



The removal of the bracket is pretty straight forward. It's made very simple by the fact that you have to remove the caliper and bracket every time you change the brakes on these cars. The bracket is held on by two bolts from the back side. Once those are off you just slip everything off the rotor. Change out rotors, swap the bits and pieces from one caliper to the other, compress the pistons and slap it all back together.

Here's the new rotor and bracket in place during the test Fit. The service tech working on my car was like "Wow, it fits. How did you figure out it would work?" TMS of course, the best forum to get info on Mustangs, period! (hee hee shameless plug)



While all this stuff was getting replaced I decided to go ahead and replace the Brake Pads as well. Might as well start off with a new slate. The old pads only had about 5mm of lining left. Actually one end had 4mm and the other end 5.5mm there was a noticeable slope to the pad wear. Pads get replaced at 3mm so I figured it wasn't a big deal to just do it now. Except, I would have got the pads for free if I had waited. I have the extended maintenance plan and you get free brake replacement at 3mm. But, after seeing how cracked and worn-out my old pads were you would have opted with new as well.

Ok, here is the finished result after everything gets buttoned back up and a quick road test.



Looks just like a base GT don't it.

Here is a Pony V6 with 17"s and stock V6 brakes for comparison.



Yikes, that looks small! Notice you can see daylight between the edge of the rotor and the inside wheel rim.

I really like the way the rotors fill up the inside of the wheel rim now.

Here is some close-ups.

Tiny rotor... you can see the dust shield.



Big Rotor, dust shield is covered by rotor.

Little Black Pony

Oh, just a few notes.

You CANNOT do this conversion if you have 16" wheels. Your rims will not fit back onto your Mustang. This brake conversion is only for 17" and larger wheels sizes.

FRPP will release a V6 big brake kit for purchase this year if you want to upgrade to 18"s. I don't have enough info as to what is included in their kit. I'm guessing it might be similar to what I just did.

GT rotors are cheaper then V6 rotors if you replace them with factory parts. Huh, who would have thought. You'd think "It's bigger so it should cost more, right?" That would be the logical conclusion except for the fact that Ford tends to lower the price of parts that it purposely over produces. If you make more of an item then the price actually decreases the more you make. Same goes for Super Duty tail lights. I had to replace one that get cracked and it cost me a whopping $40 bucks. I was fearing the worst and thinking along the lines of $100-150. Gotta love Supply and demand.

Bandit1

Great info.What did you use to compress or how did you compress the cylinders to allow the brake pads back in when you put them back on over the rotors?Was this an issue?Thanks-

Little Black Pony

I had the parts replaced here at the dealership. I'm not sure what the service tech used to compress the pistons. I had to get back to work so as I wasn't there for that step. Only popped down long enough to take photos.

I've used a thin block of wood and channel locks to compress brake pistons on one of my last cars.

I-70 west

A big C clamp works nicely
But not on the rears ! ! ! use the proper tool.

mustangcr8z

I upgraded to Gt last year,and it does make a noticeable difference,
not that much expense if you consider the end result... I would post a pic but, for some reason it won't let me.

Little Black Pony

Day two.

Some things I've noticed about the upgrade.

A) I've had to change the way I do heel toe braking. Before I could mash on the brake pretty hard and blip the throttle with my heel. Now I have to apply less pressure on the brake while doing the same action. I just have to re-train my muscle memory and shorten my braking points by a few feet.

B) The steering is a bit heavier. Gone is the light "import car" feel to the steering input. The front end feels a little more like a stock GT "planted". The added unsprung weight really makes a difference in the handling. I actually prefer the slightly heavier feel as it gives better feed back to what the front end is doing. I also feel more feedback in the steering wheel from the added unsprung weight. A side benefit is that the rear feels a bit lighter and easier to do a controlled over steer maneuver. (or maybe my rear tires are getting balder from breaking the rear loose, Hee hee )

C) I did half-a-dozen or so controlled decelerations from 70mph. (Good thing I live out in the country, lots of deserted roads to mess about on.) I could easily slow to about 40 in about 2 seconds. This is fantastic for the track where we do this repeatedly. With the old set-up i was averaging about 3 to 3.5 seconds to slow from 70 to 40. The big brakes are a big improvement.

Full Throttle

This might be a stupid question (noob) but can you use stock v6 breaks (i got the 16" wheels) on larger wheels say 18" Billets or is a break upgrade a must?

Five Oh Brian

The added weight of 18 inch wheels and the bigger tires on them will demand more of your car in terms of starting, stopping, and turning, so any improvements to power, braking, and handling will offset that added weight. Is a brake upgrade a must? No, but it sure is a good idea.

slowjoe24

I'm Waiting on parts now to begin this project!!

mceachrw

EDIT: made the trade w/ someone local

JonK

I've got a favor to ask, if anyone is going to do this swap on their V6 and/or has access to 15" American Racing Torque Thrust or similar rims (borrow from a friend with a classic Mustang?) and can test fit the 15" rims on your V6 brakes to see if the rims clear the caliper?

I've got a '67 Coupe w/4 wh. drum brakes and would like to upgrade to your newer V6 brakes (the rotors will fit the 5 lug front drum hubs) but I don't have any way to verify if the v6 brakes (calipers) will clear these rims before I start or if I need to do a little grinding on the caliper that's ok too. There is a kit being made to put the GT brakes on classic mustangs but it requires 16" wheels minimum. Being that V6 brakes are 11.535" and GT's are 13" I'm hoping the 1 1/2" will allow the 1" smaller rims to clear. Stock early mustangs w/disc brake option had 11.3" rotors and I believe came with 14" wheels.

Any takers? If they clear I'd also be interested in buying someones takeoff V6 brackets/rotors.
Thanks, Jon

Tungsten Bullitt

Did you do the rear brakes also? I was just wondering. Does your car have the Anti-lock brakes?
Just wondering if that would be different.

frank s

Late to the party, but someone even later might come by looking for something I can provide: the rears take a tool (borrowable from local parts stores, or cheap purchase) to twist and compress. For the fronts I have a ball-peen hammer with an oval wood handle that fits narrow and with a twist opens the gap.

My newtakeoff.com "set" of GT brake upgrade items was only half successful: the calipers and brackets were OK. They sent the wrong disks (rusty V6 rotors) and then grooved, rusty, greasy GT rotors. Still owe me the "five-miles-from-new" disks I paid for.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fyougit...7603826441123/

I did the conversion with mail-order rotors, epoxy-painted the calipers and brackets "Tungsten Gray". Is Tungsten Gray actually a dark shade of purple?

Deric

That sucks by getting screwed by newtakeoff . Your pics just made me never order from them. Did you paint your wheels or did they come that way?

frank s

I "won" an eBay auction by http://www.hardcoremustangs.net, and they apparently had the wheels powder coated black. There was a set of silver ones on auction at the same time. I see from their store site the price has gone up.

I was able to avoid shipping by picking up the wheels at their business location, about 20 miles from me. They always have some interesting cars around there. Nice folks, too.

Tungsten Bullitt

Do you have ABS? Also where did you get your Tungsten paint?