Procharger is back in the race
2/16/06, 03:18 PM
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Called Procharger doing my due diligence investigation on Vortech and Procharger. Procharger rep said it did not come with a tune and a tune was necessary and I needed to find an installer that had a dyno. She gave me a name of a dealer/performance shop about 90 miles from me. I called him and he was a great guy who has done a dozen '05 and '06 GT procharger installs and no V6 yet. He said for the 7psi kit, which means no new injectors, that he could provide the Procharger with all install and dyno tuning services complete for $4300. He said just about every Procharger he has installed on the many older and new Mustangs he has worked on, that the procharger claim of HP increase has been slighlty less than what he ended up getting. He said he was very confident in the 50% increase on the 7psi. That would be about 273 at the wheels and 315 flywheel. I could easily live with that.
I am not a racer and never would be into that. I want more power without making it a difficult daily driver. I have some thinking to do.
I am not a racer and never would be into that. I want more power without making it a difficult daily driver. I have some thinking to do.
2/16/06, 03:43 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PaulC @ February 16, 2006, 5:21 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Called Procharger doing my due diligence investigation on Vortech and Procharger. Procharger rep said it did not come with a tune and a tune was necessary and I needed to find an installer that had a dyno. She gave me a name of a dealer/performance shop about 90 miles from me. I called him and he was a great guy who has done a dozen '05 and '06 GT procharger installs and no V6 yet. He said for the 7psi kit, which means no new injectors, that he could provide the Procharger with all install and dyno tuning services complete for $4300. He said just about every Procharger he has installed on the many older and new Mustangs he has worked on, that the procharger claim of HP increase has been slighlty less than what he ended up getting. He said he was very confident in the 50% increase on the 7psi. That would be about 273 at the wheels and 315 flywheel. I could easily live with that.
I am not a racer and never would be into that. I want more power without making it a difficult daily driver. I have some thinking to do.
[/b][/quote]
Just a heads up... Belial ended up getting 302 RWHP with the 7psi kit and a custom tune. I ordered the complete 9psi kit for $3809 shipped. The kit comes with everything you need to install it, including plugs, pump, 42lb injectors, Diablo tuner, and unlimited tune support from CMR.
Supposedly, they've nailed the tune for both the manual and the automatic. Plus, if something changes in your setup later on down the road, you can always e-mail them and they'll send you a new tune.
Keep in mind, if you want the absolute best HP/AF results, you'll need to have it dyno tuned. I plan on seeing what they have to offer, then maybe going someplace to have it "fine-tuned".
Called Procharger doing my due diligence investigation on Vortech and Procharger. Procharger rep said it did not come with a tune and a tune was necessary and I needed to find an installer that had a dyno. She gave me a name of a dealer/performance shop about 90 miles from me. I called him and he was a great guy who has done a dozen '05 and '06 GT procharger installs and no V6 yet. He said for the 7psi kit, which means no new injectors, that he could provide the Procharger with all install and dyno tuning services complete for $4300. He said just about every Procharger he has installed on the many older and new Mustangs he has worked on, that the procharger claim of HP increase has been slighlty less than what he ended up getting. He said he was very confident in the 50% increase on the 7psi. That would be about 273 at the wheels and 315 flywheel. I could easily live with that.
I am not a racer and never would be into that. I want more power without making it a difficult daily driver. I have some thinking to do.
[/b][/quote]
Just a heads up... Belial ended up getting 302 RWHP with the 7psi kit and a custom tune. I ordered the complete 9psi kit for $3809 shipped. The kit comes with everything you need to install it, including plugs, pump, 42lb injectors, Diablo tuner, and unlimited tune support from CMR.
Supposedly, they've nailed the tune for both the manual and the automatic. Plus, if something changes in your setup later on down the road, you can always e-mail them and they'll send you a new tune.
Keep in mind, if you want the absolute best HP/AF results, you'll need to have it dyno tuned. I plan on seeing what they have to offer, then maybe going someplace to have it "fine-tuned".
2/16/06, 04:37 PM
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procharger was never out of the race... they have the better product. An ATA intercooler and a self contained supercharger that you have to change the oil on every 6k. They make gains with 7psi what Vortech made with 9psi. Now imagine dropping that 9 in a ProCharger..... The customer service was kind of shady, but that's something that will get worked out, Belial just had to be the mule for em as an early adopter. I still think that the turbo is probably the way to go, but so far ProCharger is the SC for me. There's plenty to be said about customer service, but if you want to order the tuner kit from a dyno place anyways, what does it matter about the tune since they're going to be building you one?
2/16/06, 05:20 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goliath @ February 16, 2006, 6:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
procharger was never out of the race... they have the better product. An ATA intercooler and a self contained supercharger that you have to change the oil on every 6k. They make gains with 7psi what Vortech made with 9psi. Now imagine dropping that 9 in a ProCharger..... The customer service was kind of shady, but that's something that will get worked out, Belial just had to be the mule for em as an early adopter. I still think that the turbo is probably the way to go, but so far ProCharger is the SC for me. There's plenty to be said about customer service, but if you want to order the tuner kit from a dyno place anyways, what does it matter about the tune since they're going to be building you one?
[/b][/quote]
I have it from a very reputable source... Belial experience is very typical for Procharger... Their customer service (or should we say NO SERVICE) and poor technical support has been this this way since at least the mid-90's.. as far as your last line "what does it matter"... Your tuner may still need technical support from the S/C supplier... As far as being a test mule... I don't believe they asked Belial if he wanted to be a test mule! Test mules usually get things for free! LOL! Belial was led to believe he was receiving a complete, finished product! Then again is very typical behaviour for this company... Rush things to market before they are complete!!!
also curious why you're so sure they have the better product? I certainly see a lot more unhappy Procharger customers than I do other brands..
procharger was never out of the race... they have the better product. An ATA intercooler and a self contained supercharger that you have to change the oil on every 6k. They make gains with 7psi what Vortech made with 9psi. Now imagine dropping that 9 in a ProCharger..... The customer service was kind of shady, but that's something that will get worked out, Belial just had to be the mule for em as an early adopter. I still think that the turbo is probably the way to go, but so far ProCharger is the SC for me. There's plenty to be said about customer service, but if you want to order the tuner kit from a dyno place anyways, what does it matter about the tune since they're going to be building you one?
[/b][/quote]
I have it from a very reputable source... Belial experience is very typical for Procharger... Their customer service (or should we say NO SERVICE) and poor technical support has been this this way since at least the mid-90's.. as far as your last line "what does it matter"... Your tuner may still need technical support from the S/C supplier... As far as being a test mule... I don't believe they asked Belial if he wanted to be a test mule! Test mules usually get things for free! LOL! Belial was led to believe he was receiving a complete, finished product! Then again is very typical behaviour for this company... Rush things to market before they are complete!!!
also curious why you're so sure they have the better product? I certainly see a lot more unhappy Procharger customers than I do other brands..
2/16/06, 06:00 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scrming @ February 16, 2006, 7:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have it from a very reputable source... Belial experience is very typical for Procharger... Their customer service (or should we say NO SERVICE) and poor technical support has been this this way since at least the mid-90's.. as far as your last line "what does it matter"... Your tuner may still need technical support from the S/C supplier... As far as being a test mule... I don't believe they asked Belial if he wanted to be a test mule! Test mules usually get things for free! LOL! Belial was led to believe he was receiving a complete, finished product! Then again is very typical behaviour for this company... Rush things to market before they are complete!!!
also curious why you're so sure they have the better product? I certainly see a lot more unhappy Procharger customers than I do other brands..
[/b][/quote]
When it comes to SC/TC, I prefer to wait till the market matures to see what the power house 411 turbo will do. And I would stick with the customer service oriented vendor, like Vortech in this matter. They have a good reputation.
I have it from a very reputable source... Belial experience is very typical for Procharger... Their customer service (or should we say NO SERVICE) and poor technical support has been this this way since at least the mid-90's.. as far as your last line "what does it matter"... Your tuner may still need technical support from the S/C supplier... As far as being a test mule... I don't believe they asked Belial if he wanted to be a test mule! Test mules usually get things for free! LOL! Belial was led to believe he was receiving a complete, finished product! Then again is very typical behaviour for this company... Rush things to market before they are complete!!!
also curious why you're so sure they have the better product? I certainly see a lot more unhappy Procharger customers than I do other brands..
[/b][/quote]
When it comes to SC/TC, I prefer to wait till the market matures to see what the power house 411 turbo will do. And I would stick with the customer service oriented vendor, like Vortech in this matter. They have a good reputation.
2/16/06, 06:47 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goliath @ February 16, 2006, 3:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
procharger was never out of the race... they have the better product. An ATA intercooler and a self contained supercharger that you have to change the oil on every 6k. They make gains with 7psi what Vortech made with 9psi. Now imagine dropping that 9 in a ProCharger..... The customer service was kind of shady, but that's something that will get worked out, Belial just had to be the mule for em as an early adopter. I still think that the turbo is probably the way to go, but so far ProCharger is the SC for me. There's plenty to be said about customer service, but if you want to order the tuner kit from a dyno place anyways, what does it matter about the tune since they're going to be building you one?
[/b][/quote]
I wish everyone the absolute best of luck with what ever decision they make.. Just remember that Procharger is so in-effective your cars will not come with tunes designed for the 4.0, but rather the GT.. Belial has tried to warn everyone.. For some reason, the company who has tried to do right by you the first time is getting somewhat of a backlash..
Next week, on Wednsday make sure you attend this forum.. I will be presenting the first 2005 Vortech Supercharged Mustang V6 above 400HP.. Reliably.. Since I have found an appreciation through time for what Galaxy along with the other mods have done, I feel this will be my best way back into the community.. With a dyno sheet above 400HP on 91 octane gas, as a dailey driver..
I give alot of credit to Belial sticking to his guns, and giving us the honest truth in regards to his experience.. Next week, on Wednsday about Mid-afternoon, you will witness my Vortech Experience in full color.. Until then, keep the faith!
I believe there is a possible slight of hand taking place.. has everyone forgotten Procharger cant even write a tune for the SOHC 4.0's computer? Also, the SOHC 4.0's engine management system is more complex than the 2005 GT Mustangs.. Its not an easy task and is why Procharger may not have written it... At any rate, please buy the product your heart most desires.. My heart is at a reliable 400HP, Vortech makes this possible.. A big thanks to Ford for giving the V6's 310LPH Focus Fuel pumps.. Also, the 39LBS Cobra injectors are good for 400RWHP.. How someone thinks they will benefit from 42lbs injectors is beyond me.. Especially if the motor is in pieces in the garage with holes in the block from exploded aluminum pistons..
See ya next week.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
One more thing.. Vortechs Kit is delivering a 67% proven increase over the factory! 210HP + 67% = 350HP! Facts are what you must live by.. Not promises.. This is created with an 8psi pulley on the S/C unit itself.. The additional 2 psi to make 10psi is through an effective use of air to water cooling.. so lets call a spade a spade.. Vortech uses an 8psi pulley or 3.25in pulley while Procharger uses a 7psi pulley.. Vortechs 8psi pulley system, through the efficient use of cooling gives an end result of 10psi..
procharger was never out of the race... they have the better product. An ATA intercooler and a self contained supercharger that you have to change the oil on every 6k. They make gains with 7psi what Vortech made with 9psi. Now imagine dropping that 9 in a ProCharger..... The customer service was kind of shady, but that's something that will get worked out, Belial just had to be the mule for em as an early adopter. I still think that the turbo is probably the way to go, but so far ProCharger is the SC for me. There's plenty to be said about customer service, but if you want to order the tuner kit from a dyno place anyways, what does it matter about the tune since they're going to be building you one?
[/b][/quote]
I wish everyone the absolute best of luck with what ever decision they make.. Just remember that Procharger is so in-effective your cars will not come with tunes designed for the 4.0, but rather the GT.. Belial has tried to warn everyone.. For some reason, the company who has tried to do right by you the first time is getting somewhat of a backlash..
Next week, on Wednsday make sure you attend this forum.. I will be presenting the first 2005 Vortech Supercharged Mustang V6 above 400HP.. Reliably.. Since I have found an appreciation through time for what Galaxy along with the other mods have done, I feel this will be my best way back into the community.. With a dyno sheet above 400HP on 91 octane gas, as a dailey driver..
I give alot of credit to Belial sticking to his guns, and giving us the honest truth in regards to his experience.. Next week, on Wednsday about Mid-afternoon, you will witness my Vortech Experience in full color.. Until then, keep the faith!
I believe there is a possible slight of hand taking place.. has everyone forgotten Procharger cant even write a tune for the SOHC 4.0's computer? Also, the SOHC 4.0's engine management system is more complex than the 2005 GT Mustangs.. Its not an easy task and is why Procharger may not have written it... At any rate, please buy the product your heart most desires.. My heart is at a reliable 400HP, Vortech makes this possible.. A big thanks to Ford for giving the V6's 310LPH Focus Fuel pumps.. Also, the 39LBS Cobra injectors are good for 400RWHP.. How someone thinks they will benefit from 42lbs injectors is beyond me.. Especially if the motor is in pieces in the garage with holes in the block from exploded aluminum pistons..
See ya next week.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
One more thing.. Vortechs Kit is delivering a 67% proven increase over the factory! 210HP + 67% = 350HP! Facts are what you must live by.. Not promises.. This is created with an 8psi pulley on the S/C unit itself.. The additional 2 psi to make 10psi is through an effective use of air to water cooling.. so lets call a spade a spade.. Vortech uses an 8psi pulley or 3.25in pulley while Procharger uses a 7psi pulley.. Vortechs 8psi pulley system, through the efficient use of cooling gives an end result of 10psi..
2/16/06, 07:08 PM
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You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
And the fact is that Belial is running 319 rwhp @ 7psi. How much did yours put down @ 9 psi? i recall it wasn't a whole lot more than that, you can do the "hp per PSI" calculation on your own.
And the fact is that Belial is running 319 rwhp @ 7psi. How much did yours put down @ 9 psi? i recall it wasn't a whole lot more than that, you can do the "hp per PSI" calculation on your own.
2/16/06, 07:10 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goliath @ February 16, 2006, 6:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
[/b][/quote]
May God Bless you my Windveil Blue Brother! I'm here for you when the dust settles.. Dont worry! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
[/b][/quote]
May God Bless you my Windveil Blue Brother! I'm here for you when the dust settles.. Dont worry! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
2/16/06, 07:13 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goliath @ February 16, 2006, 9:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
[/b][/quote]
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
[/b][/quote]
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
2/16/06, 07:18 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scrming @ February 16, 2006, 9:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
[/b][/quote]
I'm basing this off quotes from local shops I got from the procharger site based off the 9 psi tuner kit. I'd rather have the ATA cooler, and I've heard of vortechs eating up egines as well, I mean it's the internet there's no "end all" place for facts, and if you've found it, I'd love to see it. I just have a better taste in my mouth from ProCharger than Vortech, and you can debate aftercooler vs. intercooler all you like, but for daily driving, I'll take the intercooler. If I was JUST building a track car, then I might rock the aftercooler, but wendy hasn't made it to the track yet, and with this new job turning up, she might not make it to the track.
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
[/b][/quote]
I'm basing this off quotes from local shops I got from the procharger site based off the 9 psi tuner kit. I'd rather have the ATA cooler, and I've heard of vortechs eating up egines as well, I mean it's the internet there's no "end all" place for facts, and if you've found it, I'd love to see it. I just have a better taste in my mouth from ProCharger than Vortech, and you can debate aftercooler vs. intercooler all you like, but for daily driving, I'll take the intercooler. If I was JUST building a track car, then I might rock the aftercooler, but wendy hasn't made it to the track yet, and with this new job turning up, she might not make it to the track.
2/16/06, 07:23 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goliath @ February 16, 2006, 6:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
And the fact is that Belial is running 319 rwhp @ 7psi. How much did yours put down @ 9 psi? i recall it wasn't a whole lot more than that, you can do the "hp per PSI" calculation on your own.
[/b][/quote]
Thats 319RWHP without a dyno sheet.. Not saying Belial is lying, but he did mention something about 280RWHP I believe..
Goliath.. Please, I intend to come back on next Wednsday.. Please allow me this priviledge.. If you keep posting wrong info, I am forced to come clean it up.. Please my friend.. Please! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif[/img]
You can misdirect and point at the tune all day, the hardware that comes with the ProCharger kit is better, that's what I'm saying. Buy the tuner kit, get a tune built for it by a local shop. I'd love Belial to push 9 PSI and see where that gets him, pound for pound I'm confident ProCharger has the better set up.
And the fact is that Belial is running 319 rwhp @ 7psi. How much did yours put down @ 9 psi? i recall it wasn't a whole lot more than that, you can do the "hp per PSI" calculation on your own.
[/b][/quote]
Thats 319RWHP without a dyno sheet.. Not saying Belial is lying, but he did mention something about 280RWHP I believe..
Goliath.. Please, I intend to come back on next Wednsday.. Please allow me this priviledge.. If you keep posting wrong info, I am forced to come clean it up.. Please my friend.. Please! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif[/img]
2/16/06, 07:35 PM
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@Goliath
Agreed. I think the turbo would be the best choice of all available, not just because it's a turbo... but also because of all the time and testing Mike has put into it. For me, I just couldn't justify the extra $1000+ when I could get the Stage II PC for $3800.
@ALL
Well, I'm not one to subject myself to bad customer service, which is why I didn't order directly through ProCharger. Belial, while getting decent hardware, showed us that going directly through them is a bad idea. It's a shame he had to experience that, but at the same time, he took the bullet for a lot of us thinking about that system.
The fact that it's self-contained, along with the fact that it comes with an awesome intercooler makes it the better kit, just so long as you choose a vendor who's willing to kit it up with the necessary parts and provide the service you'd expect for spending 4k on a product.
Again, while I'm excited about what the ProCharger has to offer.... let me repeat do not go directly through them if you're considering this kit. Not only can you get it cheaper from other suppliers, but you'll be happier not having to deal with them directly.
Agreed. I think the turbo would be the best choice of all available, not just because it's a turbo... but also because of all the time and testing Mike has put into it. For me, I just couldn't justify the extra $1000+ when I could get the Stage II PC for $3800.
@ALL
Well, I'm not one to subject myself to bad customer service, which is why I didn't order directly through ProCharger. Belial, while getting decent hardware, showed us that going directly through them is a bad idea. It's a shame he had to experience that, but at the same time, he took the bullet for a lot of us thinking about that system.
The fact that it's self-contained, along with the fact that it comes with an awesome intercooler makes it the better kit, just so long as you choose a vendor who's willing to kit it up with the necessary parts and provide the service you'd expect for spending 4k on a product.
Again, while I'm excited about what the ProCharger has to offer.... let me repeat do not go directly through them if you're considering this kit. Not only can you get it cheaper from other suppliers, but you'll be happier not having to deal with them directly.
2/16/06, 07:36 PM
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checking the post on this right now if it was wheels or flywheel, I recall it being wheels. Look for a future edit, meanwhile, don't be so defensive.
edit: it was 302 rwhp w/out a dyno sheet. As much time as he put into it I don't feel like belial is going to lie about his reporting.
and based off the HP per PSI thing I suggested, the ProCharger @ 7 psi puts down 43.14 per PSI based on 302 rwhp. now based of 310 rwhp @ 9 psi = 34.44 hp per PSI. There are some more 'facts'.
edit: it was 302 rwhp w/out a dyno sheet. As much time as he put into it I don't feel like belial is going to lie about his reporting.
and based off the HP per PSI thing I suggested, the ProCharger @ 7 psi puts down 43.14 per PSI based on 302 rwhp. now based of 310 rwhp @ 9 psi = 34.44 hp per PSI. There are some more 'facts'.
2/16/06, 07:45 PM
#14
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scrming @ February 16, 2006, 10:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
[/b][/quote]
Well the ProCharger is putting up better numbers. Plus it has an intercooler. All due respect to MSP, he has awesome numbers also.
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
[/b][/quote]
Well the ProCharger is putting up better numbers. Plus it has an intercooler. All due respect to MSP, he has awesome numbers also.
2/16/06, 07:50 PM
#15
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Ok I have voice my opinion because I am also deciding between the ProCharger a and the turbo, first of the Vortech seems to be running good for MSP 9psi@310RWHP (with dual exhaust) per last dyno with a Vortech tune and according to him no problems and that is great!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] The Procharger also seems to run nice when setup right with a good tune Belial 7psi@302RWHP, the Procharger 9psi@321RWHP (single stock exhaust) from 5.0 magazine.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>MSP
I believe there is a possible slight of hand taking place.. has everyone forgotten Procharger cant even write a tune for the SOHC 4.0's computer?[/b][/quote]
I would like to mention a few things the first Procharger does not write the tune for it's system Diablo writes the canned tune.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>MSP
How someone thinks they will benefit from 42lbs injectors is beyond me.. Especially if the motor is in pieces in the garage with holes in the block from exploded aluminum pistons..[/b][/quote]
Flapjack (I think also) and I (incase this was about me) never said more there would be more HP because of the 42lb we just wanted to know what the reason was for going to 42lb injectors. See link below
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...ic=40330&st=120
Going to 42lb injectors is not going to blow the engine!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
I have spoken with Procharger a least 4 times, last about a week ago no canned tune from them as of last week, its up to your shop to make a custom tune and its the best way to go I wouldn't even want their tune.
IMO I will go with the Procharger any day of the week over the Vortech because I do not want a oil line tap, I prefer the self contained system of Procharger I do not want a air to water intercooler/aftercooler and its baggage, I prefer a air to air intercooler which is more efficient in cooling , also so far the Procharger does seem to make more HP than the Vortech per Flaps post but not a big deal to me but it is a plus.
The above does not mean the Procharger is better than the Vortech or that the Vortech is better than the Procharger IMO I like the procharger per my research.
I would say do your own research and choose the system you like whether it be Vortech, Procharger or Mikes turbo.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>MSP
I believe there is a possible slight of hand taking place.. has everyone forgotten Procharger cant even write a tune for the SOHC 4.0's computer?[/b][/quote]
I would like to mention a few things the first Procharger does not write the tune for it's system Diablo writes the canned tune.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>MSP
How someone thinks they will benefit from 42lbs injectors is beyond me.. Especially if the motor is in pieces in the garage with holes in the block from exploded aluminum pistons..[/b][/quote]
Flapjack (I think also) and I (incase this was about me) never said more there would be more HP because of the 42lb we just wanted to know what the reason was for going to 42lb injectors. See link below
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...ic=40330&st=120
Going to 42lb injectors is not going to blow the engine!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
I have spoken with Procharger a least 4 times, last about a week ago no canned tune from them as of last week, its up to your shop to make a custom tune and its the best way to go I wouldn't even want their tune.
IMO I will go with the Procharger any day of the week over the Vortech because I do not want a oil line tap, I prefer the self contained system of Procharger I do not want a air to water intercooler/aftercooler and its baggage, I prefer a air to air intercooler which is more efficient in cooling , also so far the Procharger does seem to make more HP than the Vortech per Flaps post but not a big deal to me but it is a plus.
The above does not mean the Procharger is better than the Vortech or that the Vortech is better than the Procharger IMO I like the procharger per my research.
I would say do your own research and choose the system you like whether it be Vortech, Procharger or Mikes turbo.
2/16/06, 08:04 PM
#16
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Ok guys! One thing is good, that the debate is about V6's.. Thats a good thing..
Now do we all have a date for next Wednsday? Debate is good for the spirit guys.. It makes you consider other aspects of the arguments..
At any rate, I would like to invite you all back next week.. It promises to make history, and I am the featured speaker.. LOL! Seriously, good conversation and its nice to see we can have an exchange of opinions without losing friendships.. However, no excuses when the dyno sheet is produced.. No trying to justify this or that, just except it for what it is..
@Jimp
LOL! No problem my friend.. You have sold me down the river of no hope.. Hopefully next week, you will understand alittle better.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
Now thats it... No more from me until next week.. Peace!
Now do we all have a date for next Wednsday? Debate is good for the spirit guys.. It makes you consider other aspects of the arguments..
At any rate, I would like to invite you all back next week.. It promises to make history, and I am the featured speaker.. LOL! Seriously, good conversation and its nice to see we can have an exchange of opinions without losing friendships.. However, no excuses when the dyno sheet is produced.. No trying to justify this or that, just except it for what it is..
@Jimp
LOL! No problem my friend.. You have sold me down the river of no hope.. Hopefully next week, you will understand alittle better.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
Now thats it... No more from me until next week.. Peace!
2/16/06, 08:05 PM
#17
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
MSP
How someone thinks they will benefit from 42lbs injectors is beyond me.. Especially if the motor is in pieces in the garage with holes in the block from exploded aluminum pistons..[/b][/quote]
Wow dude. We've been cool up until now, but you're getting a little wild here. Why is it that you can say whatever you feel about the ProCharger... with premonitions of blown pistons and sh\\t*y tunes, but the SECOND anyone says anything good about the ProCharger (not even saying anything bad about the Vortech), you fly off the handle?
Since when are people not entitled to their opinions? Since when is there any sort of definitive evidence of Vortech's superior quality? The internet is just that... the internet. But if you're going to use it and depend on it, in my journeys, I've found many more favorable reviews of the ProCharger.
In fact you're talking about blown pistons?? Let's see who's pistons are blown once the ice in your aftercooler evaporates. I can't even imagine how you're thinking of running 12psi w/o upgrading to an intercooler!
.....and you still haven't explained the scientific process of how air running through an aftercooler GAINS pressure w/o a chemical or mechanical process! ...nor has anyone else explained it for you!
**EDIT** Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I don't appreciate 200F+ oil, with all the contaminants from the engine, "attempting" to cool my supercharger. Independent tests have shown the ProCharger coolant pegs out at 125F.... not 200+. That heat has to go somewhere.... at that point, the air flowing through the supercharger is helping cool it. That means the air takes on additional degrees of temperature. Add that to the temperature gain associated with using an aftercooler vs an intercooler, and you have the perfect recipe for.... you guessed it, DETONATION. You can argue about putting ice in the aftercooler, and that's just fine and dandy. However, the majority of us superchargers that won't tire with extended use. Aftercoolers are high maintenance, and I for one don't need it.
...all in the name of saving a few bucks in coolant. Not worth it.
MSP
How someone thinks they will benefit from 42lbs injectors is beyond me.. Especially if the motor is in pieces in the garage with holes in the block from exploded aluminum pistons..[/b][/quote]
Wow dude. We've been cool up until now, but you're getting a little wild here. Why is it that you can say whatever you feel about the ProCharger... with premonitions of blown pistons and sh\\t*y tunes, but the SECOND anyone says anything good about the ProCharger (not even saying anything bad about the Vortech), you fly off the handle?
Since when are people not entitled to their opinions? Since when is there any sort of definitive evidence of Vortech's superior quality? The internet is just that... the internet. But if you're going to use it and depend on it, in my journeys, I've found many more favorable reviews of the ProCharger.
In fact you're talking about blown pistons?? Let's see who's pistons are blown once the ice in your aftercooler evaporates. I can't even imagine how you're thinking of running 12psi w/o upgrading to an intercooler!
.....and you still haven't explained the scientific process of how air running through an aftercooler GAINS pressure w/o a chemical or mechanical process! ...nor has anyone else explained it for you!
**EDIT** Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I don't appreciate 200F+ oil, with all the contaminants from the engine, "attempting" to cool my supercharger. Independent tests have shown the ProCharger coolant pegs out at 125F.... not 200+. That heat has to go somewhere.... at that point, the air flowing through the supercharger is helping cool it. That means the air takes on additional degrees of temperature. Add that to the temperature gain associated with using an aftercooler vs an intercooler, and you have the perfect recipe for.... you guessed it, DETONATION. You can argue about putting ice in the aftercooler, and that's just fine and dandy. However, the majority of us superchargers that won't tire with extended use. Aftercoolers are high maintenance, and I for one don't need it.
...all in the name of saving a few bucks in coolant. Not worth it.
2/16/06, 08:11 PM
#18
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scrming @ February 16, 2006, 8:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
[/b][/quote]
Scrming I haven't seen any reports on the P-1SC leaking would happen to have any links?
This is also not the same system as there D-1SC or other competition systems which are loud the P-1SC for the Mustang is there quit unit and Belail also said in a post it wasn't a loud system. You get a 3 year warr for $49.00 also>
Scrming it depends how good you tuner and when they quote you a price with a custom tune its what ever it takes them you still just pay your quoted price.
why do you say the hardware is better? I see a lot more complaints about noisey, leaky Prochargers than I do for example Vortech? Building an S/C tune is not easy either! How many hours did they spend on Belial's car! Can you imagine if they charged him $75 an hour for every hour they spent on his car!!! Tuning for an CAI is one thing... tuning for an S/C is completely different!
[/b][/quote]
Scrming I haven't seen any reports on the P-1SC leaking would happen to have any links?
This is also not the same system as there D-1SC or other competition systems which are loud the P-1SC for the Mustang is there quit unit and Belail also said in a post it wasn't a loud system. You get a 3 year warr for $49.00 also>
Scrming it depends how good you tuner and when they quote you a price with a custom tune its what ever it takes them you still just pay your quoted price.
2/16/06, 08:11 PM
#19
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ February 16, 2006, 11:07 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
@Jimp
LOL! No problem my friend.. You have sold me down the river of no hope.. Hopefully next week, you will understand alittle better.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
Now thats it... No more from me until next week.. Peace!
[/b][/quote]
Awww man, don't be like that. I didn't say anything negative about you! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
@Jimp
LOL! No problem my friend.. You have sold me down the river of no hope.. Hopefully next week, you will understand alittle better.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
Now thats it... No more from me until next week.. Peace!
[/b][/quote]
Awww man, don't be like that. I didn't say anything negative about you! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
2/16/06, 08:15 PM
#20
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 16, 2006, 7:08 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Wow dude. We've been cool up until now, but you're getting a little wild here. Why is it that you can say whatever you feel about the ProCharger... with premonitions of blown pistons and sh\\t*y tunes, but the SECOND anyone says anything good about the ProCharger (not even saying anything bad about the Vortech), you fly off the handle?
Since when are people not entitled to their opinions? Since when is there any sort of definitive evidence of Vortech's superior quality? The internet is just that... the internet. But if you're going to use it and depend on it, in my journeys, I've found many more favorable reviews of the ProCharger.
In fact you're talking about blown pistons?? Let's see who's pistons are blown once the ice in your aftercooler evaporates. I can't even imagine how you're thinking of running 12psi w/o upgrading to an intercooler!
.....and you still haven't explained the scientific process of how air running through an aftercooler GAINS pressure w/o a chemical or mechanical process! ...nor has anyone else explained it for you!
[/b][/quote]
I honestly dont think you and I can be friends FlapJack.. I have come to a decision about you, and I think I'll go with my gut instinct.. Say what ever you like about the Vortech, but until your posting Dyno sheets I would suggest you stop posting from a factual standpoint..
I'm dead serious about not liking you, you get on my nerves.. Sorry, just being honest [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] .. This situation will find itself being settled in between 13 and 12 sec.. Like I said before its gonna happen.. But I want you to post a dyno sheet of your car, no quoting from anything else.. Does not look like I will be able to stay away until next week..
Wow dude. We've been cool up until now, but you're getting a little wild here. Why is it that you can say whatever you feel about the ProCharger... with premonitions of blown pistons and sh\\t*y tunes, but the SECOND anyone says anything good about the ProCharger (not even saying anything bad about the Vortech), you fly off the handle?
Since when are people not entitled to their opinions? Since when is there any sort of definitive evidence of Vortech's superior quality? The internet is just that... the internet. But if you're going to use it and depend on it, in my journeys, I've found many more favorable reviews of the ProCharger.
In fact you're talking about blown pistons?? Let's see who's pistons are blown once the ice in your aftercooler evaporates. I can't even imagine how you're thinking of running 12psi w/o upgrading to an intercooler!
.....and you still haven't explained the scientific process of how air running through an aftercooler GAINS pressure w/o a chemical or mechanical process! ...nor has anyone else explained it for you!
[/b][/quote]
I honestly dont think you and I can be friends FlapJack.. I have come to a decision about you, and I think I'll go with my gut instinct.. Say what ever you like about the Vortech, but until your posting Dyno sheets I would suggest you stop posting from a factual standpoint..
I'm dead serious about not liking you, you get on my nerves.. Sorry, just being honest [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] .. This situation will find itself being settled in between 13 and 12 sec.. Like I said before its gonna happen.. But I want you to post a dyno sheet of your car, no quoting from anything else.. Does not look like I will be able to stay away until next week..