rygenstormlocke

In response from MSP to a post that I put up that was not 100% PC, I am starting this thread so that MSP can respond constructively. Original posts from power adders thread ( http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showth...t=39095&page=5 )as follows:
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It's based on a couple of things, but I don't think this is the place to hash it out. We should do a which is better thread, but it would be like relighting the age old debate of small block vs. big block, or V6 vs. V8. By the way, is this based on your 1/4 mile experience?

I've actually said that both can run 11's, 12's, etc in previous threads. I'm not going to hash out here what is proven and unproven. Power is only part of the equation, driver skill and suspension are the other part of it. EDIT: my bad, don't forget tires. man I need DR's.


I agree. I almost bought the Vortech, you have no idea how close I came to getting it.

Fair enough, I will focus on ETs like I always do. As far as forcing you to focus your engergy on me and EX13, I'm not sure how I did that. I didn't realize one sentance that wasn't directed at you hit so many pressure points with you.

Scrming is no. 1, and I respect that. Not sure what you mean by your statement on him being removed from the hit list. However, don't kid yourself, just because he has a Vortech dosent mean his opinions (or yours) magically change.

I don't agree with this statement at all. You take one sentance and a few disputes in other threads and come up with this. This is also a very bold statement, and could have been applied to you far more times than I.

For the most part, I am objective and supportive of everyone and thier efforts. Just like I have been with you for the most part, maybe the "wheel hop your *** down the track" comment was crossing the line though. And our last interchange, I was sincere in my posts, I was just looking out for you but you didn't see it that way.

Ultimately, I am going to do something I havent seen you do, which is admit when I am wrong. My original post was:

And what I should have said, was:

• A built motor with a power adder. Fazm has some ideas on this, and we have hashed out built motor threads multiple times. Just use the search function.

But that whole bring me to justice thing, that was over the top, even for you.

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Fazm

To think torque doesnt help in the quarter mile, is a big mistake. Especially for auto cars that cant just "launch" at 4 or 5k. Take a car like the EVO MR for example, even without usin the awd to come out of the hole with a 1.6 60' (yes they can do that stock) they can still run mid 13s. Less hp than the gt... yet a flat as can be torque curve (you really should see a dynochart on these, things, its disgusting how flat the curve is). Ive seen one with only a turboback exhaust run a 13.4 with a 1.9 60' time (thats bad for those cars). 'torque wins races, horsepower sells cars" That saying is what it is for a reason, its true. two cars of exactly equal weight, suspension, drivers, etc. Give one 300rwhp and 300rwtq, and the other one 300rwhp and 300rwtq but with a much flatter torque curve, it WILL WIN everytime.

Yes the PHP car can run 11s, but we cant stress this enough, its NOT in street trim, the powerhouse car is. Also when temps rose on the PHP car, it slipped into the low 12s, the turbo was still running 11s. The PHP car runs slicks, the powerhouse car only runs dr's. The PHP car probably weighs 150-200 lbs less. (that alone worth about a tenth or two). Why does the powerhouse car still keep up? one word... Torque.

MSP

Yes the PHP car is this, yes the PHP car is that.. Lets face it, everything else is crap except for the Turbo.. Since key players in the community have the turbo, everything else be ****ed..

The only true option is a turbo..

I have been pushed far enough with all this crap.. We will see how it turns out..

The only thing a curve is good for, is pulling a boat up a 5% grade at 2900RPM in 5th gear. LOL!

I guess my next set of mods must be all suspension related, along with DR's..

MSP

Also, so people dont get confused..

The PHP car could only run 11's once because it uses the Vortech Aftercooler, which is Water/Air cooler.. This means, after the first run, the water will remain hot for a certain amount of time.. Once the water heats up, it takes a long time to cool off..

Where as the Powerhouse Turbo is built around an Air-to-Air Intercooler, and is not subject to long periods of time to regain boost temps sufficient enough to repeat the 11 sec ET...

My car has an Air-to-Air intercooler, so it will also not be subject to the heatsoak which overcame the PHP car..

Thus it will be a fair fight.. Me against anyone who owns a 2005 V6 with a Powerhouse Turbo.. The die has been cast, and the war has begun..

rygenstormlocke

How long does it take to cool off? At the track, its pretty common that you have to wait 45 minutes before you are permitted to stage again. Sometimes more if it is busy, for large events, this could be even longer. Combine that with 20 minutes minimum in the staging lanes of sitting still with your car off, while you wait for the Jr. Dragsters and bikes have thier fun, and sometimes a quad.

It takes 30-40 minutes for the 4.0 to cool off with the hood open. I usually sit in the pits for 40-45 minutes to be on the safe side, then get back in the staging lanes.

It will be interesting to see how all the results stack up, with various configurations, tranny's, etc. I'm sure Scrming will show us what a conservative boosted Vortech can do. I think with his setup, he will suprise a lot of people. Screamingyello6 will also be hitting the track soon, so we will finally get to see what we can expect from a DD on these kits.

Here are the numbers we have so far for power adders:

1/4 Mile

• Scrming: 13.1@102MPH, 125 shot Nitrous w/DR's
• Ants2005stang: 13.3@104MPH, Procharger@11lbs?, w/street tires
• BlackLX4.0: 13.5@99MPH, 100 shot Nitrous w/DR's
• Rygen: 13.6@99MPH, 100 shot Nitrous w/street tires

1/8 Mile

• Scrming: 8.3@82MPH, 125 shot Nitrous w/DR's
• BlackLX4.0: 8.6@80MPH, 100 shot Nitrous w/DR's
• Ants2005stang: 8.7@83MPH, procharger@11lbs?, w/street tires
• Rygen: 8.7@84MPH, Turbo@8.5lbs, w/street tires
• Afixer: 9.0@77MPH, XCharger@7lbs?, w/street tires & open diff

What will be interesting is to see how the 1000ft times and trap speed on the ET's will change for those of us switching from Nitrous to FI. And compare Scrming & my ET's as we are both running conservative boost.

Plus, Scrming has 4.10s, so he should build boost really quick on his Vortech. This may prove to be an advantage combine with his 28' M&H tires. I think Ants2005stang is running stock gearing in the 8.8 GT rear end he has.

And, on this:

Did you want to expand your scope to a Procharger as well? I mean, the number two slot is occupied by a Procharged V6 on street tires, and it has been argued (not by me) that the Procharger is a more efficient unit than the Vortech when it comes to making power. Just curious. The reason I didn't consider the Procharger was quality, support and reliability. More than one shop I spoke with said the Vortech was better for the DD, and Procharger better for the professional drag car (non DD).

You still have stock gearing in yours? I know Afixer is running stock gears, but he builds boost at 2k so I don't see him needing to change them out to improve his times.

Thoughts?

scotts05custom

I love Mustangs....

rygenstormlocke

LOL, we all do, passionately.....which is what usually drives debates. I hate being without the stang. I am nearing the point where I need multiple stangs to survive when one is in the shop.

Fazm

Im not sayin your setup cant run 11s, im sayin that its highly unlikely since the PHP one is running those times with a stripped down car, and slicks and skinnies. If you do succesfully get your car to 400rwhp, yes, you (with the right suspension and tires) will probably end up running low 12s. But until you go the extra mile and go crazy with the car, its not going to be likely to run high 11s, especially if you refuse to run below your 2.0 60ft. I promise the PHP car is probably runnin 1.5 or 1.6 in the 60' and the powerhouse is probably in the 1.6 or 1.7 range.

rygenstormlocke

Scrming's 60 ft on his 13.1 run was 1.8. I'm not sure I want to attempt 11's on a my V6. Other than Scrming and his built engine plan for next year, is there anyone here that is shooting for 11's?

Fazm

<---------shootin for 17s

scrming

so where is this "fight" going to happen? On dynos? Is everyone buying a G-Tech? Or will we finally see your car at a track?

My decision to go with the Vortech was economics. The Vortech met my needs and was within my budget. Do I think the PH turbo is a better setup? Sure! Do I think Scott's Twin Turbo setup is even better? YOU BET!! The fact is regardless of what people think I have a limited amount of money... The Vortech is what I can afford and it will sever me well! Do I regret not saving some more money and getting the turbo... absolutely not! After just going around the block I can tell you I am very happy with the Vortech! The money I saved will some really nice forged pistons! LOL!

Excepcion13

Wow, I have been upgraded to a key player!! Thanks! I thought I was just an infrequent poster with a fast car!!!

BTW, I am planning to adjust my rev limiter to the 5800 range so that I will not blow my engine powershifting. As soon as boost kicks in when I am in first, that needle flies right almost faster than I can shift!!

Todd and I were planning to go to the track this Sunday, but it is Chevy Impala day, so we are SOL. So I will have to practice launching on some side roads for a while....

I am HOPING to get into the 13's. The set-up is capable of it, I know, but that doesn't mean that I am capable of it at this juncture.

rygenstormlocke

Right on man. And sure, go ahead and rub in the built motor. Grrr. Man, this time next year, your car will be unbeatable. So, what is it, built by ford, blown by Vortech, rebuilt by MRT?

rygenstormlocke

I'm impressed man, you actually did it without posting. That is bloody amazing.

So, work around plan for this weekend, tomorrow at 6PM, MIR. I'm sure the ricer girls will be there for ya. LOL.

And your setup is capable of 12's, you will hit them with practice, trust me.

MSP

It appears civility is still within the community! LOL!! I anticipated some really heated discussion.. But each and every one of you maintained a level fair dignity in your post.. Even EX13 came across alittle more friendly than usual.. Very nice guys, very nice..

I dont plan on going 11's at all.. I am still aiming for deep 12's.. This should be the area where most of us will end up..

It is going to be interesting to see what amount of abuse the clutch and tranny will tolerate..

@RaginStormLock

The Procharger is also a good unit.. However, I think your comment about it being more efficient than the V2 is off base.. Articles have already been posted showing which unit is more efficient.. But yes, I am hoping a Procharger also finds its way to represent the centrifi crowd..

@Scrming

Thats great Scrming, glad your back and ready to go... Also, it will be at a track.. No need to discuss the reasons I am headed back to the dyno.. Everyone knows what my goals are and what my recent projects have been..

@EX13

Thats a good idea EX13! I am glad you have figured out that the rev limiter is a viable safegaurd for the 5spds..

rygenstormlocke

Yea, I was going by what I read and heard on the forums on the Procharger, like in my post, I had a disclaimer "not by me".

I did mention something I would like some thoughts on, stock gearing vs. Scrmings 4.10's on the SC.

Excepcion13

Ah, diplomacy at its best!

Have you ever seen The Alamo? There is a part where Colonel Bowie turns to the Lt Col Travis and says, "Sometimes... it's just the way you say things, Travis. That's all. I swear to God."

And here I was thinking I was a nice guy....

MSP

Scrming should do fine with the 4.10's with 300RWHP as a base, as long as he is on DR's.. The stock gearing does really good on the street, but I have 3.73's which will be present in my 7.5 when I make my first trip down the track..

Overall I think the 4.10's in Scrming's car with the SC will result in the same efficiency found in most N/A GT's running 12.9's and 12.8's... Look for Scrming's performance while at 300RWHP using the 4.10's to compete quite effectively with N/A GT's making similar power and running 4.10's..

Since my goal is a much higher trap speed, I need a slightly taller gear with the 3.73..

Fazm

the stock clutch wont hold up, i can tell you that much, as mine is already hurting, as well as 3rd (and recently 4th) gear in the transmission. Powerhouse is also havin probs with 3rd gear. But we powershift the car, if you arent going to be doin that, things will last a little longer (the clutch wont, slower shifts will wear it faster, especially soft launches where u have to ride the clutch)

Excepcion13

TJ06 wrote about it before, but can you explain how you powershift? Is it basically keep WOT, depress the clutch, and shift?