What's With The Censorship?
11/11/06, 07:08 PM
#21
Legacy TMS Member
I get what 06GTwBOOST is saying. In some cases, there are only so many ways to manufacture an item that is designed to meet specific applications or perform designated duties. His examples of cold air kits and sway bars are accurate- how many different ways can you make this kind of product?
And don't preach to me Marcello, you've stated several times already that you're done with this thread- don't give yourself the same reputation that some other vendors have earned- which is basically what this thread was about in the first place.
And don't preach to me Marcello, you've stated several times already that you're done with this thread- don't give yourself the same reputation that some other vendors have earned- which is basically what this thread was about in the first place.
11/11/06, 07:28 PM
#22
And don't preach to me Marcello, you've stated several times already that you're done with this thread- don't give yourself the same reputation that some other vendors have earned- which is basically what this thread was about in the first place.
The facts will come to light. I will be happy to discuss them when they do. In the meantime - have a good night.
11/11/06, 07:55 PM
#23
Legacy TMS Member
Last time I checked, there were no pending IP rights on such things as an end link or a sway bar - to my knowledge they ran out long ago, although when they first came out, I'm sure there was a period when they enjoyed some protection.
Preaching ? - I think not. I gave a good overview of what's involved in IP rights and protections, and disagree with the notion that it doesn't matter who was the originator of the invention, as our entire economy is based upon it, and it is one of the things that allows our economy to do things that most of the rest of the world's economies can't. Others obviously don't feel the same way I do, and you are entitled to that opinion - but I don't have to agree with it. And in that respect, I am done, because I'm not going to argue about it anymore in this thread.
Preaching ? - I think not. I gave a good overview of what's involved in IP rights and protections, and disagree with the notion that it doesn't matter who was the originator of the invention, as our entire economy is based upon it, and it is one of the things that allows our economy to do things that most of the rest of the world's economies can't. Others obviously don't feel the same way I do, and you are entitled to that opinion - but I don't have to agree with it. And in that respect, I am done, because I'm not going to argue about it anymore in this thread.
Whatever....... competition is what keeps our economy stronger than other's. Its because other economies don't have as many choices and options as we do that they suffer. You see it from the manufacturer's side, I see if from the consumer's side; although for a manufacturer some of your statements in this thread seem pretty arrogant. I'll keep my business elsewhere, thank you.
11/11/06, 08:00 PM
#24
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[quote=SilverHorseRacing;778645]Thanks man, I'm glad they arrived on time as promised. It was a busy couple of days around here, but I'm glad you like them. Like I told you on the phone, wait until you see some of our new designs as they become available. Unfortunately, tooling for our new project won't be here for another week, so we're behind on that now... more of the usual
Well...if you make it I will buy. Your stuff is top quality. Thanks for a great product...Still 109.00 for the quarter windows?
Well...if you make it I will buy. Your stuff is top quality. Thanks for a great product...Still 109.00 for the quarter windows?
11/11/06, 09:00 PM
#25
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Whatever....... competition is what keeps our economy stronger than other's. Its because other economies don't have as many choices and options as we do that they suffer. You see it from the manufacturer's side, I see if from the consumer's side; although for a manufacturer some of your statements in this thread seem pretty arrogant. I'll keep my business elsewhere, thank you.
My work, as well as many others, revolves around the protection of patents. It's not competition....it's Stealing!
11/11/06, 09:22 PM
#27
Legacy TMS Member
You have a narrow, selfish view on things. Our economy is no stronger when you buy something made in China. China's economy sure is though. This so called "competition" is not within these borders...but with outside these borders. It's mentalities like this that strenthen other countries economies. My work, as well as many others, revolves around the protection of patents. It's not competition....it's Stealing!
My work, as well as many others, revolves around the protection of patents. It's not competition....it's Stealing!
11/11/06, 10:05 PM
#29
As to seeing it from only one side - I started this company because I got sick of seeing it from the customer's side - getting products that I was unhappy with, knowing that it could be done better, and done right here in the USA if someone just cared a little more. I originally chimed in on another thread because the discussion was wandering over to IP rights, and I thought it was time to let people know that UPR had blatantly copied a copyrighted image from our website and called it their own complete with a watermark. I presented proof of this, and let the readers decide for themselves as to the source of the original image in question. It wasn't enough that they were cloning our product - they were using our photos as an advertising point before they even had production pieces of their own.
This is what got me into the whole thing in the first place. Since, I have only argued facts as they are, not as I feel about them, because trust me, what I feel about a lot of this is not fit for print. If that seems arrogant, I'm sorry - but they are facts - if you can find fault with any of my legal understandings of IP rights, I will gladly retract them and publicly apologize for my error. I of course, will ask the same of you when the facts of certain other topics start coming to light.
On the strength of our economy - the net result of no IP protections like in China, Russia, Malaysia, or any of a great many other countries could be summed up in one word - stagnation. Innovation gets squashed when there is no economic incentive for it to occur - that's all I've really been arguing for quite some time. As these countries want to trade more and more with us, we are dragging them, kicking and screaming, into International IP protection, although the maze of hoops to jump through for that and the lack of real protection it offers makes for a poor investment of time currently.
There is plenty of competition within our borders. If you don't know or understand that, then you don't have a chance in the longrun. I've never said that patents don't mean jack or that I'm in favor of copyright infringement- all I've said is that competition is healthy for the environment. If you or SilverHorse comes up with a truly exclusive product that is beneficial in today's market, then you should have the exclusive rights to that product for the amount of time permissible by our standards.
But, after that, all bets are off and that is when competition comes into play.
Your new product may have great initial impact, but it's competition that determines how long you're in the game and the extent of marketshare that you maintain. That's not selfish at all- that's the truth.
Unfortunately, a great many things are no longer "patentable" due to "prior art". Things such as new designs for LCA's, K-Frames, etc... are all covered under prior art, so anyone is pretty much free to copy anyone else's work in these arenas, even if it is somewhat innovative, should they so desire. Of course, if you don't understand the dynamics of the component in question, there is always the chance that a poor weld technique or a bad choice of where to remove material could cause a structural - and catastrophic - failure of the part in question, but hey - that's competition. I'm not implying that has ever happened with any company's "competitive" products, but if it did... hopefully you're not in the car in question when it breaks.
So, while we do continue to disagree, I think there are some areas where we do agree. And while I may have lost you as a potential customer long ago in this thread, hopefully I will at least have your respect as someone who stands by what they say, debates the merits of the argument - not the people in it, and doesn't sugarcoat things just to make a sale. (heck, if you know how many sales I've walked away from because of my honesty
)
lol
11/12/06, 06:19 AM
#31
Legacy TMS Member
SilverHorse-
Your latest post contains what I was hoping that it would. Thanks for taking the time to explain your position as thoroughly as you did. The statements you made about fuel doors and cup bezels are prime examples of the point I've been trying to make all along- although you weren't the first to manufacture those specific items, you are able to release for sale the same overall product but with your own enhancements. You mention that innovation keeps you moving forward- very true but also it is the competition that I've been mentioning. I think we see more of the same points than we both thought- its good to get them out there and get closer to being on the same page.
Again thanks for taking the time to understand my position. Good luck to you and your business.
Your latest post contains what I was hoping that it would. Thanks for taking the time to explain your position as thoroughly as you did. The statements you made about fuel doors and cup bezels are prime examples of the point I've been trying to make all along- although you weren't the first to manufacture those specific items, you are able to release for sale the same overall product but with your own enhancements. You mention that innovation keeps you moving forward- very true but also it is the competition that I've been mentioning. I think we see more of the same points than we both thought- its good to get them out there and get closer to being on the same page.
Again thanks for taking the time to understand my position. Good luck to you and your business.
11/12/06, 08:31 AM
#33
Mach 1 Member
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If anyone here feels that their patents have been copied and people are reverse engineering their designs and marketing them as their own with a minor difference or two..
by all means PM me and I'll get you my Lawfirms phone number and contact information.....
The more lawsuits the better....
Odds are that aftermarket manufacturers aren't making billions and thats why I see no car part law suits at the office.
It would probably cost more money to sue for a Cold Air Intake patent violation than the profit from making and selling such an item, or a fuel door or end link...
by all means PM me and I'll get you my Lawfirms phone number and contact information.....
The more lawsuits the better....
Odds are that aftermarket manufacturers aren't making billions and thats why I see no car part law suits at the office.
It would probably cost more money to sue for a Cold Air Intake patent violation than the profit from making and selling such an item, or a fuel door or end link...
11/12/06, 09:08 AM
#34
It might also be useful for people to actually read about what is patentable.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac...x.html#whatpat
If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere in the world, or if it was known or used by others in this country before the date that the applicant made his/her invention, a patent cannot be obtained. If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere, or has been in public use or on sale in this country more than one year before the date on which an application for patent is filed in this country, a patent cannot be obtained. In this connection it is immaterial when the invention was made, or whether the printed publication or public use was by the inventor himself/herself or by someone else. If the inventor describes the invention in a printed publication or uses the invention publicly, or places it on sale, he/she must apply for a patent before one year has gone by, otherwise any right to a patent will be lost. The inventor must file on the date of public use or disclosure, however, in order to preserve patent rights in many foreign countries.
Even if the subject matter sought to be patented is not exactly shown by the prior art, and involves one or more differences over the most nearly similar thing already known, a patent may still be refused if the differences would be obvious. The subject matter sought to be patented must be sufficiently different from what has been used or described before that it may be said to be nonobvious to a person having ordinary skill in the area of technology related to the invention. For example, the substitution of one color for another, or changes in size, are ordinarily not patentable.
And remember that just because it says Patent(s) Pending doesn't mean they were granted and/or that the patents apply to the whole product.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac...x.html#whatpat
If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere in the world, or if it was known or used by others in this country before the date that the applicant made his/her invention, a patent cannot be obtained. If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere, or has been in public use or on sale in this country more than one year before the date on which an application for patent is filed in this country, a patent cannot be obtained. In this connection it is immaterial when the invention was made, or whether the printed publication or public use was by the inventor himself/herself or by someone else. If the inventor describes the invention in a printed publication or uses the invention publicly, or places it on sale, he/she must apply for a patent before one year has gone by, otherwise any right to a patent will be lost. The inventor must file on the date of public use or disclosure, however, in order to preserve patent rights in many foreign countries.
Even if the subject matter sought to be patented is not exactly shown by the prior art, and involves one or more differences over the most nearly similar thing already known, a patent may still be refused if the differences would be obvious. The subject matter sought to be patented must be sufficiently different from what has been used or described before that it may be said to be nonobvious to a person having ordinary skill in the area of technology related to the invention. For example, the substitution of one color for another, or changes in size, are ordinarily not patentable.
11/12/06, 10:03 AM
#35
Wow guys,
I have to say, color me impressed. We've taken what was turning into another complete mud-slinging event and flipped it quickly into a coherent, adult conversation on all the facts - which is all that I was hoping for all along. Maybe there is hope for us after all...
And I think all the points are completely on the mark:
* You don't see many lawsuits based upon the cost / benefit ratio
* Just because a patent is pending does not mean it will be granted
* Using sources such as the USPTO website are excellent references when discussing a topic like this
* So long as the competition plays fair, I'm good with it - they just have to expect the same in return, that's why we call it competition.
I have to say, color me impressed. We've taken what was turning into another complete mud-slinging event and flipped it quickly into a coherent, adult conversation on all the facts - which is all that I was hoping for all along. Maybe there is hope for us after all...
And I think all the points are completely on the mark:
* You don't see many lawsuits based upon the cost / benefit ratio
* Just because a patent is pending does not mean it will be granted
* Using sources such as the USPTO website are excellent references when discussing a topic like this
* So long as the competition plays fair, I'm good with it - they just have to expect the same in return, that's why we call it competition.
11/13/06, 09:48 PM
#37
Cobra R Member
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There was no reason for this thread to go past post #2. Anyway, I can't nor do I want to go into detail, but certain threads were closed due to the legal system coming into play. Im not going any farther than that, so lets please not dwell on who said what about who and all the other crap that has gone along with it.
Have a great evening.
Have a great evening.
11/14/06, 02:21 PM
#38
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Wow, and I was just curious as to why the topics were locked. I didn't know it would turn into a full blown legal discussion but it does bring out some interesting information. I am all for discussing what is good and bad about any product (as long as I actually have the product and can make a legitimate call) but some of these posts really do get off the topic and turn into a slam fest. If tomjimbob bought a cai (or any part) from anybody and it fell apart, I would want to know about it. That is the real strength of these posts and over the few years I have been on here, I have learned a lot. It just seems like it has been recently that the venom has started to spew out. Lets just get back to "My Experience" and not what "he said/she said or on another site I heard...". Nobody will get sued over this and it makes for easier to read posts (though the others are much more interesting at times)..... Plus I am getting tired of ragging on certain individuals who otherwise usually have valid points. Moderators, keep up the good work......
11/14/06, 08:07 PM
#39
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HarleyBill, Ford4ever. 
The guy who is really speaking the truth is Silver Horse, but rather than reading and understanding you would rather call it boring for a lack of understanding. I challenge you to go back and try it again. I would like to explain it to you, but I could not do it better than Silver Horse.
If you noticed the Moderators comments regarding legal issues, I'll bet you someone was threatened for allowing this discussion to continue by the person in question. Also Persons who were stating "facts" about the person in question are not chiming in. Figure it out. America at it's best.
Steal someones stuff, then threaten them if they tell someone.
The guy who is really speaking the truth is Silver Horse, but rather than reading and understanding you would rather call it boring for a lack of understanding. I challenge you to go back and try it again. I would like to explain it to you, but I could not do it better than Silver Horse.
If you noticed the Moderators comments regarding legal issues, I'll bet you someone was threatened for allowing this discussion to continue by the person in question. Also Persons who were stating "facts" about the person in question are not chiming in. Figure it out. America at it's best.
Steal someones stuff, then threaten them if they tell someone.
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