Using a JLT CAI without a tuner
3/19/13, 05:13 PM
#21
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My bad, I skimmed. My bad. There are better forums for in-depth tech info, this is true. But keep in mind you're going to get responses like *some* of these from time to time no matter where you go. I posted a thread on about plug n' play on S197forum (those guys are awesome for tech, btw) similar to the one I posted here. And besides a couple really good responses, I got 5 pages of flaming for apparently purposely glaring other drivers and how i was as bad as serial killers and people who talk at the theater.
Good luck with it.
Last edited by Cavero; 3/19/13 at 05:16 PM.
3/19/13, 05:37 PM
#22
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Hey folks,
I have a very nice carbon fiber JLT CAI that I got for a screaming deal that I would really like to use. However, I cannot afford ~$400 right now for a tuner.
What adjustments would have to be made to the engine (idle, air/fuel, timing, etc.) to be able to put it on and use it? I have access to several good mechanics and could maybe get that done a LOT cheaper than buying a tuner right now.
The intake I have now is apparently a $99 fleaBay special that looks like two giant beer cans welded together. It sounds great and works fine (AFAIK) but I would really prefer to put the quality one to use.
I have a very nice carbon fiber JLT CAI that I got for a screaming deal that I would really like to use. However, I cannot afford ~$400 right now for a tuner.
What adjustments would have to be made to the engine (idle, air/fuel, timing, etc.) to be able to put it on and use it? I have access to several good mechanics and could maybe get that done a LOT cheaper than buying a tuner right now.
The intake I have now is apparently a $99 fleaBay special that looks like two giant beer cans welded together. It sounds great and works fine (AFAIK) but I would really prefer to put the quality one to use.
3/19/13, 05:40 PM
#23
How do you think you are going to save money??? You are going to use about 2 to 3 hours on a dyno (even if its your friend, you will own him something). Also he will have to have the Software to get into the tables (the cheapest I found is the Sniper Software at $400). So somebody is going to had to buy the software.
So why are you trying to reinvent the wheel??? I bet when you redid your Bathroom you brought a sink that was already made. Why didn't you just make one yourself to save money??? Because it was already made and cheaper and simpler to do.
So why are you trying to reinvent the wheel??? I bet when you redid your Bathroom you brought a sink that was already made. Why didn't you just make one yourself to save money??? Because it was already made and cheaper and simpler to do.
3/19/13, 05:46 PM
#24
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Not gonna read all the posts ill just reply with the answer.
NO!
The tune is modified for the larger mass air flow diameter. The air will flow slower than normal making the pcm incorrectly calculate the amount of fuel needed. A tune is the only fix. No modification you can do to fix it.
NO!
The tune is modified for the larger mass air flow diameter. The air will flow slower than normal making the pcm incorrectly calculate the amount of fuel needed. A tune is the only fix. No modification you can do to fix it.
3/19/13, 09:22 PM
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Not gonna read all the posts ill just reply with the answer.
NO!
The tune is modified for the larger mass air flow diameter. The air will flow slower than normal making the pcm incorrectly calculate the amount of fuel needed. A tune is the only fix. No modification you can do to fix it.
NO!
The tune is modified for the larger mass air flow diameter. The air will flow slower than normal making the pcm incorrectly calculate the amount of fuel needed. A tune is the only fix. No modification you can do to fix it.
BTW, despite the answers that seem to indicate otherwise, I didn't ask a Yes or No question.
Nor did I ask for advice. Just information. One guy had some and I thanked him for it.
Incidentally, I have found a speed shop that can do the dyno tune for me for a reasonable amount.
No offense intended, you just answered a question that wasn't asked.
3/19/13, 10:25 PM
#26
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LOL - I love your avatar, considering your advice that "a tune is the only fix."
BTW, despite the answers that seem to indicate otherwise, I didn't ask a Yes or No question.
Nor did I ask for advice. Just information. One guy had some and I thanked him for it.
Incidentally, I have found a speed shop that can do the dyno tune for me for a reasonable amount.
No offense intended, you just answered a question that wasn't asked.
BTW, despite the answers that seem to indicate otherwise, I didn't ask a Yes or No question.
Nor did I ask for advice. Just information. One guy had some and I thanked him for it.
Incidentally, I have found a speed shop that can do the dyno tune for me for a reasonable amount.
No offense intended, you just answered a question that wasn't asked.
And i said you would need a tune. Which you Said your gonna get. So i was right? But shouldn't have responded with no?
3/20/13, 07:29 PM
#28
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
The bottom line is this ! Once you increase the MAF size above stock, your air/fuel and timing parameters have to be remapped, as your ECM is programmed from the factory to only run the stock tuning files, otherwise your air/fuel will run dangerously lean and more than likely damage your engine as a direct result or unless the ECM goes into fail safe mode first. Unfortunately this just happens to be one of the disadvantages of modern drive by wire technology, as you can't just throw on a chip like back in the good old days.. You may also want to consider contacting Jay Tucker at JLT directly as I'm sure he can tell you exactly what size your intake tube happens to be.. IIRC the JLT series I and II had a MAF housing size of 88mm. The JLT series III MAF is 110mm.. Anyway here's the link for JLT www.jlttruecoldair.com
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 3/20/13 at 07:31 PM.
3/20/13, 10:27 PM
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Well, color me stupid as hell!
I have found out from a very knowledgeable pro tuner that you pretty much MUST use an SCT tuner to make ANY adjustments since Ford decided to screw us and make a 100% closed source interface for our ECU. He said only SCT works correctly and that the others are not reliable or precise enough. And of course, since it is VIN-locked, the guys at the speed shops can't have "one for the shop" to use on multiple cars.
He also said Diablo locked up Dodge about the time SCT locked up Ford. Only Chevy has an easily addressable ECU for tuning and it can be done with a simple USB connector and software that is readily available.
So I am finding out this fly-by-wire **** means you are FORCED into buying an expensive device to make any changes to ignition, fuel, timing, etc. settings at all (let's be honest, $400 for a tool that only does one thing for one vehicle is a bit ridiculous). If you could unlock it yourself and/or transfer tunes between vehicles, that would be different, but you can't.
In my opinion, this is a petty, bull**** thing for Ford to have done that ultimately goes against the whole car-guy (and gal) community support idea.
I would think that making their vehicles more easily customizable would result in more demand for their products.
What if you could only buy pots and pans to cook with from one company and that company had been given a virtual monopoly on that market by the maker of your stove?
You can't take your pots over to Mom's house to cook, you could only use them at your place. And if you moved and didn't take the stove with you, you would have to buy all new pots and pans.
Add to that this wrinkle - if you decide you want to try cooking Chinese, you will have to pay for a whole new special pan for that.
Pretty ridiculous huh? That's how I feel.
Maybe I can trade for a Camaro.
(Hey Trent, can I borrow your avatar?)
I have found out from a very knowledgeable pro tuner that you pretty much MUST use an SCT tuner to make ANY adjustments since Ford decided to screw us and make a 100% closed source interface for our ECU. He said only SCT works correctly and that the others are not reliable or precise enough. And of course, since it is VIN-locked, the guys at the speed shops can't have "one for the shop" to use on multiple cars.
He also said Diablo locked up Dodge about the time SCT locked up Ford. Only Chevy has an easily addressable ECU for tuning and it can be done with a simple USB connector and software that is readily available.
So I am finding out this fly-by-wire **** means you are FORCED into buying an expensive device to make any changes to ignition, fuel, timing, etc. settings at all (let's be honest, $400 for a tool that only does one thing for one vehicle is a bit ridiculous). If you could unlock it yourself and/or transfer tunes between vehicles, that would be different, but you can't.
In my opinion, this is a petty, bull**** thing for Ford to have done that ultimately goes against the whole car-guy (and gal) community support idea.
I would think that making their vehicles more easily customizable would result in more demand for their products.
What if you could only buy pots and pans to cook with from one company and that company had been given a virtual monopoly on that market by the maker of your stove?
You can't take your pots over to Mom's house to cook, you could only use them at your place. And if you moved and didn't take the stove with you, you would have to buy all new pots and pans.
Add to that this wrinkle - if you decide you want to try cooking Chinese, you will have to pay for a whole new special pan for that.
Pretty ridiculous huh? That's how I feel.
Maybe I can trade for a Camaro.
(Hey Trent, can I borrow your avatar?)
Last edited by Nunja Business; 3/20/13 at 10:28 PM.
3/20/13, 10:33 PM
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Well, color me stupid as hell!
I have found out from a very knowledgeable pro tuner that you pretty much MUST use an SCT tuner to make ANY adjustments since Ford decided to screw us and make a 100% closed source interface for our ECU. He said only SCT works correctly and that the others are not reliable or precise enough. And of course, since it is VIN-locked, the guys at the speed shops can't have "one for the shop" to use on multiple cars.
He also said Diablo locked up Dodge about the time SCT locked up Ford. Only Chevy has an easily addressable ECU for tuning and it can be done with a simple USB connector and software that is readily available.
So I am finding out this fly-by-wire **** means you are FORCED into buying an expensive device to make any changes to ignition, fuel, timing, etc. settings at all (let's be honest, $400 for a tool that only does one thing for one vehicle is a bit ridiculous). If you could unlock it yourself and/or transfer tunes between vehicles, that would be different, but you can't.
In my opinion, this is a petty, bull**** thing for Ford to have done that ultimately goes against the whole car-guy (and gal) community support idea.
I would think that making their vehicles more easily customizable would result in more demand for their products.
What if you could only buy pots and pans to cook with from one company and that company had been given a virtual monopoly on that market by the maker of your stove?
You can't take your pots over to Mom's house to cook, you could only use them at your place. And if you moved and didn't take the stove with you, you would have to buy all new pots and pans.
Add to that this wrinkle - if you decide you want to try cooking Chinese, you will have to pay for a whole new special pan for that.
Pretty ridiculous huh? That's how I feel.
Maybe I can trade for a Camaro.
(Hey Trent, can I borrow your avatar?)
I have found out from a very knowledgeable pro tuner that you pretty much MUST use an SCT tuner to make ANY adjustments since Ford decided to screw us and make a 100% closed source interface for our ECU. He said only SCT works correctly and that the others are not reliable or precise enough. And of course, since it is VIN-locked, the guys at the speed shops can't have "one for the shop" to use on multiple cars.
He also said Diablo locked up Dodge about the time SCT locked up Ford. Only Chevy has an easily addressable ECU for tuning and it can be done with a simple USB connector and software that is readily available.
So I am finding out this fly-by-wire **** means you are FORCED into buying an expensive device to make any changes to ignition, fuel, timing, etc. settings at all (let's be honest, $400 for a tool that only does one thing for one vehicle is a bit ridiculous). If you could unlock it yourself and/or transfer tunes between vehicles, that would be different, but you can't.
In my opinion, this is a petty, bull**** thing for Ford to have done that ultimately goes against the whole car-guy (and gal) community support idea.
I would think that making their vehicles more easily customizable would result in more demand for their products.
What if you could only buy pots and pans to cook with from one company and that company had been given a virtual monopoly on that market by the maker of your stove?
You can't take your pots over to Mom's house to cook, you could only use them at your place. And if you moved and didn't take the stove with you, you would have to buy all new pots and pans.
Add to that this wrinkle - if you decide you want to try cooking Chinese, you will have to pay for a whole new special pan for that.
Pretty ridiculous huh? That's how I feel.
Maybe I can trade for a Camaro.
(Hey Trent, can I borrow your avatar?)
Being the owner of three mustangs its absurd to think I have to buy three tuners exactly the same device to do the exact same thing... makes me furious... that's over a grand... pissed
3/21/13, 05:48 AM
#31
For you DYI guys and multi-Mustang owners. Take a look at this software. I think it will work out for you. I don't own any of it, I just found it.
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/Snipe...20Software.htm
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/Snipe...20Software.htm
3/21/13, 06:34 AM
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For you DYI guys and multi-Mustang owners. Take a look at this software. I think it will work out for you. I don't own any of it, I just found it.
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/Snipe...20Software.htm
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/Snipe...20Software.htm
Unfortunately, the guy I talked to said they had tried Sniper and it was lacking. Maybe they tried an older version and it has been enhanced though?
3/21/13, 08:25 AM
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And if you do research on this site, you'll find that most people will tell you that it's the tune that really makes the difference as opposed to the bigger intake. There's even some who just got a tune with the stock air box.
If it were me, I'd leave the stock intake on the car until I could get a tuner with the appropriate tune(s).
EDIT: Yeah, I see some have already provided that answer.
Last edited by MusicMan66; 3/21/13 at 08:30 AM.
3/21/13, 02:16 PM
#34
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For you DYI guys and multi-Mustang owners. Take a look at this software. I think it will work out for you. I don't own any of it, I just found it.
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/Snipe...20Software.htm
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/Snipe...20Software.htm
Specifically your engine will run lean due to getting more air with the same amount of fuel. Is it enough to cause problems with the O2 sensors? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, you won't like the way you car runs. A tune adjusts for the increased air intake.
And if you do research on this site, you'll find that most people will tell you that it's the tune that really makes the difference as opposed to the bigger intake. There's even some who just got a tune with the stock air box.
If it were me, I'd leave the stock intake on the car until I could get a tuner with the appropriate tune(s).
EDIT: Yeah, I see some have already provided that answer.
And if you do research on this site, you'll find that most people will tell you that it's the tune that really makes the difference as opposed to the bigger intake. There's even some who just got a tune with the stock air box.
If it were me, I'd leave the stock intake on the car until I could get a tuner with the appropriate tune(s).
EDIT: Yeah, I see some have already provided that answer.
And to the op. What about owning a car made you think mod would be cheap
3/21/13, 02:37 PM
#35
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Is a tuner kinda pricey?...Sure. That's why I bought a used one. It's not like anyone actively "uses" it all the time, so it's basically brand new. I also think CAI's are way overpriced, so I bought that used as well. I knew what I was willing to pay for each one, and I stuck to it. I ended up finding each one in my price range (half price or less) within' a month, and I'm very satisfied with both.
If you could use a tuner as many times as you wanted, then no one would need to buy them. We'd all borrow them and none of us would actually pay for it. So the price of tunes would go up dramatically as a result. You can't use the same CAI on multiple cars simultaneously, so why should you be able to use a tuner in that same fashion?
The tuners also have more than one function. They can be used for data-logging, checking/clearing codes, changing parameters without the need of a new tune, etc.
If you could use a tuner as many times as you wanted, then no one would need to buy them. We'd all borrow them and none of us would actually pay for it. So the price of tunes would go up dramatically as a result. You can't use the same CAI on multiple cars simultaneously, so why should you be able to use a tuner in that same fashion?
The tuners also have more than one function. They can be used for data-logging, checking/clearing codes, changing parameters without the need of a new tune, etc.
3/21/13, 06:16 PM
#36
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Is a tuner kinda pricey?...Sure. That's why I bought a used one. It's not like anyone actively "uses" it all the time, so it's basically brand new. I also think CAI's are way overpriced, so I bought that used as well. I knew what I was willing to pay for each one, and I stuck to it. I ended up finding each one in my price range (half price or less) within' a month, and I'm very satisfied with both.
If you could use a tuner as many times as you wanted, then no one would need to buy them. We'd all borrow them and none of us would actually pay for it. So the price of tunes would go up dramatically as a result. You can't use the same CAI on multiple cars simultaneously, so why should you be able to use a tuner in that same fashion?
The tuners also have more than one function. They can be used for data-logging, checking/clearing codes, changing parameters without the need of a new tune, etc.
If you could use a tuner as many times as you wanted, then no one would need to buy them. We'd all borrow them and none of us would actually pay for it. So the price of tunes would go up dramatically as a result. You can't use the same CAI on multiple cars simultaneously, so why should you be able to use a tuner in that same fashion?
The tuners also have more than one function. They can be used for data-logging, checking/clearing codes, changing parameters without the need of a new tune, etc.
3/22/13, 02:01 PM
#37
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Well, color me stupid as hell!
I have found out from a very knowledgeable pro tuner that you pretty much MUST use an SCT tuner to make ANY adjustments since Ford decided to screw us and make a 100% closed source interface for our ECU. He said only SCT works correctly and that the others are not reliable or precise enough. And of course, since it is VIN-locked, the guys at the speed shops can't have "one for the shop" to use on multiple cars.
He also said Diablo locked up Dodge about the time SCT locked up Ford. Only Chevy has an easily addressable ECU for tuning and it can be done with a simple USB connector and software that is readily available.
So I am finding out this fly-by-wire **** means you are FORCED into buying an expensive device to make any changes to ignition, fuel, timing, etc. settings at all (let's be honest, $400 for a tool that only does one thing for one vehicle is a bit ridiculous). If you could unlock it yourself and/or transfer tunes between vehicles, that would be different, but you can't.
In my opinion, this is a petty, bull**** thing for Ford to have done that ultimately goes against the whole car-guy (and gal) community support idea.
I would think that making their vehicles more easily customizable would result in more demand for their products.
What if you could only buy pots and pans to cook with from one company and that company had been given a virtual monopoly on that market by the maker of your stove?
You can't take your pots over to Mom's house to cook, you could only use them at your place. And if you moved and didn't take the stove with you, you would have to buy all new pots and pans.
Add to that this wrinkle - if you decide you want to try cooking Chinese, you will have to pay for a whole new special pan for that.
Pretty ridiculous huh? That's how I feel.
Maybe I can trade for a Camaro.
(Hey Trent, can I borrow your avatar?)
I have found out from a very knowledgeable pro tuner that you pretty much MUST use an SCT tuner to make ANY adjustments since Ford decided to screw us and make a 100% closed source interface for our ECU. He said only SCT works correctly and that the others are not reliable or precise enough. And of course, since it is VIN-locked, the guys at the speed shops can't have "one for the shop" to use on multiple cars.
He also said Diablo locked up Dodge about the time SCT locked up Ford. Only Chevy has an easily addressable ECU for tuning and it can be done with a simple USB connector and software that is readily available.
So I am finding out this fly-by-wire **** means you are FORCED into buying an expensive device to make any changes to ignition, fuel, timing, etc. settings at all (let's be honest, $400 for a tool that only does one thing for one vehicle is a bit ridiculous). If you could unlock it yourself and/or transfer tunes between vehicles, that would be different, but you can't.
In my opinion, this is a petty, bull**** thing for Ford to have done that ultimately goes against the whole car-guy (and gal) community support idea.
I would think that making their vehicles more easily customizable would result in more demand for their products.
What if you could only buy pots and pans to cook with from one company and that company had been given a virtual monopoly on that market by the maker of your stove?
You can't take your pots over to Mom's house to cook, you could only use them at your place. And if you moved and didn't take the stove with you, you would have to buy all new pots and pans.
Add to that this wrinkle - if you decide you want to try cooking Chinese, you will have to pay for a whole new special pan for that.
Pretty ridiculous huh? That's how I feel.
Maybe I can trade for a Camaro.
(Hey Trent, can I borrow your avatar?)
so in review.. everyone was right.. you were very wrong.. and you are also wrong about modding a car... buying a car is the cheap apart!! modding costs far more in the end then buying the car.. Now you are mad at ford and the mustang bacuse they built in protections to save the car from cheap people trying to ghetto mod the onboard computers? FYI the camaro and the chally are even worse to tune and mod...
3/22/13, 02:02 PM
#38
Keep it clean, respectful adn constructive. If I have to delete more post, accounts will go with it.
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