Saw it with my own 2 eyes last weekend. There were 5 cars that had an intake that supposedly did not require a tune. The intakes were:
3 GMS
1 K&N
1 MRT

All the intakes with stock tunes were in the 14's-15's a/f range. I'm just posting info on what I saw. Here is a link with more info

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=56231

 

were the A/F ratios you state (14s-15s) throughout the curve, or just at WOT? This is concerning, as GMS stated their CAI w/ calibrated MAF sensor stays in the range of 11.8 - 12.2.

 

My GMS CAI/wMAF was 12.5 through the range during my dyno.

-danny

 

Mine leveled out at 12.5 too

 

What was the a/f w/ the K&N (no tune)?

 

That was not the case with these cars. They were lean throughout. People can say what they want but I saw 3 cars with the same problems with the GMS, K&N and MRT kits.

 

Mine was the K&N, started out around 15 at from 3000 to about 4000 then completely droped to below 10. Doug now has it reset to 13 from 4000+ to over 6000. nice flat line. The car runs a lot better now. I did notice a difference after I got the K&N put on, and then another jump after the tune. I agree with Goose any CAI needs tuning. Kinda like putting on clean cloths with out taking a shower, you need both.
Will post copys of Doug's dyno and one done previous at another site when I get them scaned.

 

i still don't get the sense of why people don't want tunes anyway.. hell, its worth it to just get a tune and no intake at all, rather than just an intake..

 

I'm sorry but I gotta call

Making a blanket statement that all these "no tune needed" intakes need a tune is brash given that its presented with TOO LITTLE supporting data.

Ok... so you saw instances that lead you to believe that these intakes ran lean during testing in Missouri. What was the weather like? Was the city in the midst of a high pressure system? a low presure system? What was the ambient temperature? What about the condition of each car? What about the gasoline used? Was the test result easily re-creatable on other similarly equipped cars? Was similar testing done on other local dyno's?

There very well may be a basis for what you present. Unfortunately I think you need more data to substantiate your theory...

 

Say what you want. The weather in the dyno room was:
Temp- 66*f
29.84 in-Hg.
Humidity 23%

Here is a link from the first post in case you missed it. http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=56231

 

We were all there and saw the same thing. Several different cars. same results. If you don't want to believe it then just don't.

 

I want to get a CAI and I want to tune my 07 Mustang GT but until I see proof that there is no long term issues I'm stearing clear.......As long as it sound good I'm happy.....

 

This isn't news to me and the reason is simple engineering. The air transfer function programmed in your PCM calibration is specifically for the factory airbox, factory MAF, and factory air filter. Anytime you mess with either the airbox or MAF, it will skew the air transfer function. In the case of these conical cold air intakes, there is going to be a lot more air going in than specified in the air transfer function. The engine will run lean.

I'd like to see data on a dynotuned stock GT and then data on a dynotuned GT with a cold air intake kit. This is a much better comparison than a stock GT versus a dynotuned GT w/ CAI.

 

Sure hope people post their dyno graphs... I'm getting very confused.

What I would like to see are the baseline runs (no changes) and then the afters.

Did Doug say that he replaced all the GMS sensors (after first sesion) with the OEM ones to do his tunes?

Posting the before/after charts sure would be helpful here people.

 

+1

I saw the same results as everyone else. The factory program was designed to work with stock components, not an aftermarket intake with with chip to trick it into being compatible.

 

A wise powertrain engineer once told me to not even consider drilling drain holes in the stock airbox!!!!

 

The question is why would you want to chance it? Get your car on a dyno, much cheaper than having engine damage down the road due to a lean mixture. Heck I checked my tune from Doug and it was lean and I am glad I did. Best 50 bucks I have spent on the car yet.

 

How do you know when your EFI system is moving into open loop and closed loop operation? Will your tuner tell you that if you use it for data logging?

 

If you have an X-Cal 2, you can use LiveLink (free software from SCT Flash) to datalog various stuff from your car. the open loop flag is one of these readings.

I've gone down the road of using another factory Ford MAF and airbox on my car and using the correct air transfer function. It runs smoothly but all in all, I'd prefer sticking with stock due to less headaches in the long run.

 

Sorry, but I'm with Martimus on the for it being "required".

Why? Ask Doug himself. He did a shootout of most of these "no-tune" required intakes (not GMS) on his own dyno over a year ago and never found any of them to be in the 15.0 range with the stock tune. In fact he thought the MRT to be one of the better one's of the bunch at the time.

"Required" -- NO

"Beneficial" -- You bet

"Dangerous" without a tune -- NO (depending on which one you're talking about anyway)