2kanchoo

?? Just get forged internals and you can get +650rwhp out of the stock 4.6 block easy.

max2000jp

Yep, there was an article in MMFF or 5.0 (cannot remember) that referenced Ford's own engineers stating that the 05+ aluminum block is one of the strongest they've ever made.

65sohc

Sorry Sociopath, I mean Jake, my mistake. Ford does it to add more "road-hugging weight."

Stoenr

No blower here, but when the time comes all I want it 420 rwhp. Hell at 300 rwhp now Im keeping up with guys with a 100 shot or FI.
Riskin blowing a motor over .5 or so in the 1/4 is not worth it to me.

65sohc

Note this exerpt taken from Sean Hyland Motorsports: The production aluminum block is rated for 600 hp while the production iron block is good for 700 hp.

COBRA 5.0L STROKER SHORTBLOCK (96-01 MUSTANG COBRA)
PN 78700- Production SVT Cobra Aluminum Block
- 600 HP capable
- NEW Forged Steel Stroker Crankshaft
- Manley I Beam Connecting Rods
- Manley Forged Pistons (2618 high strength material)
- HD Molybdenum Steel Piston Rings
- ARP Race Main Bolts
- FM Race Main and Rod Bearings
$4595 Exchange**
Optional Components
- HO Oil Pump w/Pick Up Tube and windage tray- $95
- HO Oil Pump w/Pick Up Tube, windage tray and Billet Oil Pump Gears - $395
- Dowels, Pins, Rear Cover and oil seal $120
5.4L IRON BLOCK SHORTBLOCK (96-08 Ford F-Series 2V/3V/4V (SVT Lightning), Shelby GT500)
PN 83000E- New 2004 Windsor Iron Block
- 700 HP capable
- Forged Steel 5.4L Crankshaft
- Manley H Beam Connecting Rods
- Manley Forged Pistons (2618 high strength material)
- HD Molybdenum Steel Piston Rings
- ARP Main Bolts
- FM Main and Rod Bearings

Bullitt995

So that makes you a pro too. Again, zero personal experience.

Here's a clue:

IT'S THE TUNE THAT MATTERS NOT THE HORSEPOWER NUMBERS

I'm suprised none of the "pros" that you've talked to have told you that. I'd be sceptical of anyone that preaches 450rwhp or bust.

Been there done that. Infact I'm pretty sure this section is dedicated to the fact that I am, indeed, awesome.

Bullitt995

The blocks themselves are not limiting the hp numbers. I don't believe there's record of an aluminum teksid block failing at this point. It's a VERY rare occurance that the physical block actually fails on these cars. Only ones I've heard of were some of the stock 302's from the fox body era warping and giving out on high boost applications.

SoundGuyDave

Dude, you have GOT to lay off the coffee, it's making you cranky... First off, if you actually READ my post, I NEVER SAID that it's 450RWHP or bust. I said that approximate HP level is considered to be the max SAFE level. Power is NOT just a function of boost, but fuel and spark as well. It's pretty obvious that the tune is the deciding factor, and is directly related to the HP output from the motor. In sum, you have three factors that interrelate: boost, AFR, and total timing. You can play with those three factors to adjust your HP output. The Whipple HO tune is conservative. Period. With 11-12PSI of boost, the rig is more than capable of generating well in excess of 600HP at the flywheel, but the tune is deliberately rich and the timing is deliberately low. Am I going too fast for you? Any tuner worth his/her salt can alter the tune to produce more power. What do you get with more power? Increased cylinder pressures. What do you get when you increase the pressure of a gas? Heat. What happens when you heat an air/fuel mixture to excess? An explosion. Not a burn, an explosion. What happens when the mixture explodes violently? Even more pressure. Still with me? What happens when the pressure spike exerts downward force on a powdered metal connecting rod that's being pushed upward (compression stroke, remember) by the crankshaft? The rod breaks. What happens when you have broken pieces of metal flying around inside an engine block? Holes in the block. I haven't lost you yet, have I? Not getting too complicated or technical for you, am I? I know the LAST post you mis-quoted got translated in your brain as "blah, blah, blah." I just don't want you to get confused by the polysylabic words, or anything. You do agree that holes in an engine block are bad? Okay, back to tuning.

You can run leaner, with more spark, at the expense of boost on a given fuel octane, and still not detonate. You can increase boost, if you run richer and/or run less total timing. Oddly enough, BOTH solutions generate approximately the SAME HP levels. Do you REALLY think that Whipple would sell a 600HP blower, but just call it a 500HP blower because they thought it would be fun? No. On the stock bottom end, that's about all you can push (tune factor+boost factor) before you start getting hate mail from the customers with the "weaker" engines (low end of the standard deviation curve) that popped. A forged bottom end allows for more aggressive tuning because the components are physically stronger and can tolerate higher pressure levels. A small amount of detonation that might be shrugged off by a forged assembly could shatter the rods in a stock bottom end.

Now, let's take a look at what you've contributed to this thread...

POST #51:
Nice, an insult.

POST #56
Sarcasm.

POST #59
More sarcasm and another insult, or at least an accusation of incompetence.

POST #66
More sarcasm and another insult.

POST #67
Finally, some real information.

So far, five posts, four containing ZERO information, just insults, with nothing to back you up besides your own inflated sense of self-worth, and then one final post with some actual usable information. So as far as I can see, you're 80%at this point. If your whole point is that I personally don't own a supercharger-equipped 2005+ Mustang GT, you are correct. I CAN back up my statements, and I have the background to do it with. Do you? How many 4.6L 3V motors have you worked with to show that my statements are incorrect? Have you blown any up, and if so at what power levels, and with what failure modes? Your sig says you're making more power than the majority (all except you, I believe) are saying is safe. Congrats. How long has the motor lasted? When will it blow? Tuned for 450RWHP or less, Saleen and Whipple equipped motors are regularly going 50,000+ miles on the stock bottom end with no problem. FAR too many stock rod failures are occuring with setups beyond that number.

Yeah, uh-huh. You have fun with that...

Torched05stang

LOL back @ ya. ................I want to be like everyone else.
So lets take it outside........................................... .to the track.

holeshot

Dude, they peed on your f'ing rug!

07 HOSS Mustang

I hope he had spare underwear in the glovebox..............

max2000jp

That's not entirely correct. The rods can only take so much power. You can the best tuner on earth dyno tune your car, but the rods can only hold so much. Anything over 450whp is pushing it. I’ve read that 05 3V’s have a bit stouter rods for some reason. I am not sure if the metallurgy was changed from 06 on, but that’s what I’ve read from a few reputable sources. As with any engine near the edge, you need to keep the motor from detonating. Proper maintenance, watching you’re a/f, filling up with good gas, etc. are all good ways to reduce that chance of detonation.

65sohc

The limiting factor is the fact that Ford could not achieve their power target with the small 4.6 and still be able to warranty the engine. It is common knowledge that during the development of the Cobra enough engines blew to convince SVT to go to a stronger foundation which they concluded was their truck engine. In the case of the GT500 I suspect part of the reason is that because their power goal was even higher and they felt a higher displacement displacement could achieve the same power at a lower stress level.
Although not part of my sig, I had a 94 Supra Turbo that I personally tuned, via an AEM programable ems, to 635 rwhp with help from a methanol injection system, also controlled by the ems. Unlike you I am neither a pro nor a narcisist, but I do have some level of automotive knowledge.

Bullitt995

GT500 has an iron block because of cost, not strength.

RRRoamer

Not to get into you guy's ****ing match, but you DO realize that you are quoting magazine writers??? Not always the best source for technical excellence. Heck, given some of the crap I have read in assorted Mustang mags, not even the simple truth...

Oh, and the block in the s197 isn't the same block as the aluminum blocks used on the two and four valve engines. Different beast. Different issues.

Bullitt995

I'm not saying iron blocks aren't stronger, they are in general. But saying an aluminum block can't hold a **** ton of power is stupid.

Bullitt995

Everone knows iron blocks are stronger, no one is debating that. That doesn't mean aluminum blocks are worthless for high hp. There really isn't a reason to go for an iron block other than cost because there are aluminum blocks that can take you way over 1000rwhp.

I assume the GT could afford the aluminum block because the GT model required much less R&D and it is composed of cheaper parts. The GT doesn't have forged internals, bigger fuel pumps, a supercharger, on and on and on. Plus the weight saved on the higher sales volume GT means better gas mileage which helps Ford fight the ecoterrorists one more day.

And by the way, quoting car magazines like car and driver for technical info is not exactly the best route to go to prove a point. Though they happen to have found the truth by some kind of blind *** luck in your quote.

Stoenr

Ahhhhh these post are getting placed out of order, lol

65sohc

So the GT, at $15,000 less, has an aluminum block because....

65sohc

Car and Driver:
"So it took an extensive development program to produce the 2003 SVT Mustang Cobra, during which it was decided to base the engine on a cast-iron version of the 4.6-liter V-8's block. As in the SVT F-150 Lightning pickup, the iron block promises better durability in the heavy-duty environment of a high-torque drivetrain."

Automobile Magazine:
"The Eaton blower--similar to the one used in the SVT F-150 Lightning--is the hero of this story, but this was not a simple bolt-on application. The supercharged Cobra reverts to an iron block, which was deemed necessary to handle the higher power output."

'Nuff said.