Hollywood_North GT

No one was discussing SilverStar candle power vis-a-vis HIDs. That would be foolish. Nevertheless, SilverStars are brighter than standard halogen bulbs, and provide an aesthetic that many here - myself included - want.

Now if someone designs a relatively straightforward plug & play HID assembly for the S197 in the near future, that would be great - though one is still forced to find a solution for the fogs.

Treadhead

Just out of curiousity, have you used the SilverStars in your Mustang? With what you keep saying I should be able to see better with the stock bulbs (big time yellow) than with SilverStars which is the opposite of my experience.

classj

Here is some more data. If after reading the below, you still still think Silverstars make more light, I do not know what to say. But to each his own.

The following is the brightness in lumens----

low beam/high beam

H4 standard bulb= 1000/1650
H4 +50 bulb (clear, uncoated, phillips vision +, etc)= 1148/1830
H4 Sylvania Silverstar= 954/1570 lumens

(converted from MSCD... lumens=MSCD*4*pi)

I do not have all the H13 data, but it should be similar. All the other silverstar bulbs in fact produce less light output than the std clear bulbs, and significantly less than an uncoated +50 bulb.

From Daniel Sterns site:

H1 Bulb VariantOutput LumensLife Hours</B>Standard (plain)1550 lm650 hrLong Life1460 lm1200 hrPlus+30
High Efficacy</B>1680 lm400 hrPlus+50
Ultra High Efficacy1750 lm350 hrBlue glass
"Extra white"1380 lm250 hr
Part of the impetus for the development of these bulbs was for the makers of good-quality bulbs to take away a portion of the dangerous "crystal blue" (spark blue, 8500K blue, etc.) type bulb sales and satisfy consumers desiring a different headlamp appearance with a legal and safe product. The retail-level marketers have an easy sell here; Pep Boys offers a "Silverstar Upgrade" service for fifty bucks, for instance. And there are always going to be people lining up to offer glowing testimonials about how much better they think they can see with these bulbs. But can they really?
There's no good evidence that the type of light produced by this sort of bulb actually allows drivers to see better than the type of light produced by a regular, clear bulb. And there've been no studies on the effect of this type of light upon seeing and glare in bad weather, for instance. It has, on the other hand, been shown that these bulbs cause more glare than clear bulbs. Can you see better with this sort of bulb? No, probably not. Some people vigourously defend blue-glass bulbs, insisting they can see better. But that's another problem: they think they can see better than they actually can. There've been no studies to determine exactly how dangerous it is to think you can see better than you really can, but it probably doesn't help safety.
It should be mentioned that while these are critical questions that ought to be asked, they are academic to some degree if what you're deciding is whether to use a no-name bulb or the product of a reputable manufacturer, such as Narva, Candlepower, Osram, Philips, or GE.
OK, So These Extra-White Bulbs Aren't The Best Choice For Maximizing My Headlamps' Performance. What Should I Get Instead?
For those who want the best possible performance from their headlamps and are more concerned with their ability to see rather than the appearance of their headlamps, the major bulb companies offer optimized bulbs without the light-stealing blue glass. Narva RangePower+50 and RangePower+30, GE Night Hawk, and Philips Vision Plus.................... They produce the maximum legal amount of light while staying within legal power consumption limits. They have colorless clear glass.
The Sylvania Silver Stars have blue glass. Light output is of legal levels, but as with all blue-filtered bulbs, you do not get more light from them. The Sylvania SilverStar bulbs have a very short lifetime, because the filament is overdriven to get a legal amount of light despite the blue glass.
To get the best possible seeing performance at night, don't choose extra-white bulbs.

SlamMan02

LOL Wow...This thread has turned into a huge argument. If you don't like the D-a-m-n lights don't get them- Its as simple as that! What does it matter if someone believes they emit more light and help visibility or not. They are going to continue to think whatever they want regardless of what random facts you pull out of the air.


Edit: Sometimes people amaze me. Does it really matter if they emit more light or not? If the owner is happy with them and thinks they are better than stock, than thats all the matters. Would you come argue with my cousin when he says putting 93oct. in his V6 makes it faster?

mikes rx

FWIW, I used a set of Silverstars for about 5 years in my car, and they were still good when I took them out to replace with Ultras (I wanted to "see" the difference...pun intended). I've used Silverstars in all my cars, and have never had a problem with them in terms of premature burning out.

But, I guess it's: "Results may vary"

Hollywood_North GT

Here's a hot tip >> I trust my EYES - THE FINAL RECEPTOR THAT ENABLES ME TO JUDGE WHETHER OR NOT I CAN SEE BETTER ON THE ROAD - more than I trust some allegedly accurate or meaningful "facts" cut and pasted into this board.

I'm a photographer, so I probably know more about light, its spectral properites and the refectance characteristics obtained when it bounces off different objects and surfaces than most of the people in this discussion. For example, certain wavelenghs of light will render reflected illumination upon certain objects more clearly than others - one of the reasons why amber foglights have been so often used to see through fog. Also, increased illumination isn't always preferable. I know from personal experience that HIDs can be nightmarish under heavy rain. It's not the "whitish" light of HIDs that precipitates (no pun intended) this effect, it's the number of lumens they kick out; part of the reason that the nonsensical argument about SilverStars making it hard to see in the rain is idiotic. It's not the volume or color temperature of the light you kick out, it's how it reflects off the objects it illuminates. Reflected light - not "point source light" is what enables all of us to see.

SilverStars are brighter than the standard halogens that come with your Mustang; 4000 Kelvin vs. 3000 Kelvin. Moreover, some people prefer the aesthetic on their cars and don't want to shell out big $$ for an HID kit. What part of this is so hard to understand?

classj

I am not really arguing here. Just putting some info out there so people can make a informed decision. The first post was the following:

That is all we are discussing. My answer to the above was yes I had a problem with seeing in bad weather, and no, they are not brighter by standard measures.

If you guys are happy with them, thats great. I loved them too at first. I ran them for quite a while and after a crappy night driving home in the rain questioning whether the lights were even on or not, I threw back in some std +50 bulbs, and whattta ya know, they are better in poor weather.

But I do miss the look of the whiter light. That I will admit.

classj

Sure..... but.. whiter light does have a tendency (to my knowledge/ expirience) to reflect off of rain/fog/water vapor more when compared to yellow cast bulbs.

So combine the whiter bulb, with brighter light, and you have a nice diffused flood that does a great job of lighting the rain/fog but not the road. Exactly the problem with HID's you mentioned that I have expirienced myself at times.

As far as the look of the silverstars, I like the way they look. That was not the question raised though.

metroplex

Backdazzle becomes a problem with overly bright white lights, which is why some foglamps/driving lamps are sometimes designed to project in a selective yellow color to prevent backdazzle in fog, rain, and snow. The human eye tends to pick out the yellow light more readily than the white light. UNECE also has some regulation about yellow turn signals, related to how it's easier to see the yellow turn signals versus the red turn signals.

The amount of light (candlepower, lumens, candela, whatever you use as a measurement or calculation) is going to be reduced when you use a filtered lens or tinted glass on the bulb (which is what the SilverStars have). Photographers frequently use filters on lenses; either a UV filter for basic protection, polarizing filter or whatever filter for artistic effect.

In order to compensate for this drop in light output, manufactures tend to overdrive the lamps or use different gas mixtures which can have a negative effect on the lifespan of the bulb. The actual life of the bulb (not the same as the rated lifespan in the lab) is going to vary wildly depending on how you use it: vibration, on time, cycling time, ambient temperature, etc...

Hollywood_North GT

Photographers DO use UV filters for protection. But just to clarify, photographers used UV filters with film because they absorb the UV light in the spectrum, which tended to render scenes in daylight balanced film on the cool side. The UV filter warmed things up slightly; not necessary with today's sophisticated D-SLRs that offer auto white balance and a variety of color temperature settings.

Polarizers are typically used to eliminate reflections on glass or other reflective surfaces when the sun is at 90 degrees to your "film plane"; the added benefit being that it will also deepen colors, particularly with foilage and sky-dappled clouds.

Bottom line: the application for filtered photography is quite different than "filtering" in front of a point light source, which is what you are discussing, so the comparison is moot.

Cavero

Yeah I had a problem until I saw that the red gasket had actually slipped off the seal guide. Once I put it back in correctly, they popped in no problem. And the bulbs, as everyone has said, are much brighter than factory. Well the driving lights at least. If I had to throw a number on it, I'd say 40-60% brighter. The main lamps are a little brighter than stock, but not by a lot. 10-20%

metroplex

No it is still valid. Even a clear UV filter will reduce the light transmission into the CCD sensor or the film. The purplish blue tint on the SilverStar is going to reduce the light output and the manufacturer has to use a different gas mixture and overdrive the filament to compensate.

Hollywood_North GT

You're talking about blocking light output vs. blocking light input.

Different animals entirely.

classj

How is it different?? Not trying to be sarcastic here, but if there is a difference please explain it.

As I understand it, light transmission through a medium (lens, filter, coating, etc) is still light transmission regardless of whether it is an input or output.

SlamMan02

Yea well they are still brighter than stock..the end

metroplex

Just curious, do you have any photometric data to back that up? How much brighter is it than the stock Sylvania H13, or the Sylvania XtraVision H13XV? Remember to take data readings at least 60 feet away from the headlamp assembly.

metroplex

Any type of filtering on the glass of a bulb is going to reduce the light output. An extreme case of this would be painting a bulb with some type of transluscent paint. It's not going to be as bright as the clear glass.

While modern camera lens filters can be made with different coatings to have a reduced effect on light input (better light transmission efficiency), it still will never be 100%.

I've had people try and tell me the SilverStar bulbs aren't tinted Hello??? McFly?!?!?! and others who make similar wild claims. Sylvania finally updated their webpage with FMVSS 108 compliant power ratings. About 1-2 years ago and prior to that, they listed power ratings that were 5W ABOVE the limits described in FMVSS 108 (over-watted bulbs). The two requirements for ricer bulbs are: a tint and higher power rating than stock. Even Sylvania admits the SilverStars aren't the best choice if you desire normal bulb life.

Hollywood_North GT

It's called light fall off. The intensity of light observed from a source of constant intrinsic luminosity falls off as the square of the distance from the object. This is known as the inverse square law for light intensity.

Point: You cannot compare quality or quanity of light that has traveled some distance before passing through a filter, vs. a filtered light source where the filtration medium is at extreme proximity to the point of source.

Look, we're going around in circles here, so let's just end this. If you don't like SilverStars, don't buy them.

End of discussion.

classj

True. But either way, no matter how you look at it, the coating will reduce light transmission. If you put a blue filter on a camera, the transmitted light is reduced. Put a filter on an bulb, same thing happens, except to a different extent. But end result is that the light transmission was reduced.


There are actually two silverstars believe it or not, three if you count the ultra.

-Sylvania silverstars (which are sold in the US and are blue coated
bulbs)


-And Osram Silverstars, which are uncoated +50 bulbs and sold more overseas. Very similar to the phillips vision plus.

Hollywood_North GT

I never argued that light transmission wasn't reduced in both cases.

My point was that Metroplex's argument of comparing filtered bulbs to a filtered camera lens is simply a poor comparison; he was trying to equate filtered point source light to filtered reflected and refracted light - and there simply is no comparison. His example was erroneous, as one has nothing to do with the other.

Good-night everybody...