peet

Not to beat a dead horse (no pun intended) but 1) the C&L unit looks as though it is a better design - just logically look at the plumbing. 2) the C&L unit has shielding so you're not stinking in engine compartment air - a big no no for performance. 3) EVERY single dyno graph I've ever seen that shows CAI improvements, regardless of car it's done on (I've done BMW, Mercedes and now am looking at these stangs) has an increase in the tail of the RPM range, NEVER has one shown in the beignning and middle.

Now the device itself may be sound. Maybe there is something there - but these graphs are showing what looks like invalid pulls or faulty dyno sensors. I'll gladly take it all back and buy one of these CAIs if it's all true - but it will take some independent pulls before this is the case. Anyone have a mustang dyno to throw this on?

2k5pony

Take this for what it is worth but the heat shield that came with the C&L made little if any performance gains. Call Lee Bender at C&L and he will be happy to tell you the same thing. The only reason why he put one on is b/c other tuners have one and people would think they are missing something. The "plumbing" on the C&L is set up like the stock inlet pipe. There is a more unnatural bend coming off the throttle body then the JLT(which is more direct) If you still think a heat shield is a most have item, JLT is going to include one in his kit. The one on my car is kinda of a preproduction model. Keep in mind he will spray the inlet pipe to match the color of your car. The conical filter included in the JLT also has a bigger surface area, which is why is has better airflow along with the bend. Trust me, the 05 loves more air and with the proper tune, it is nothing short of spectacular. I feel like JLT should sponser me for backing their product so much, but I didn't jump on board until I saw results. I don't even know if you have ever even had a car dynoed before, but this faulty sensor stuff is retarded. I mean come on, he didn't wheel the dyno out of a pickup and strap it on my car. Check the cobra they tuned in April's issue of MMFF(hits stands on the 22nd) and that should put your mind to rest.

nicksolheim

Hey 2k5pony, can ya take some pics for us to see the thing!

2k5pony

definetly...don't believe the hype B)

nicksolheim

I see what your saying.

The manifold also looks slightly larger around than the C&L kit.

nicksolheim

When are these JLT CAI kits going to be available?

2k5pony

contact number is 757-335-1940..you guys talk to the man and he will hook you up

vld

OK, call me a pessimist, but something doesn't sound right. First, if you look at the dyno curve, the "improvement" is in the low and mid-range and it dies out completely by red-line. If the JLT really does flow "15% better" than the C&L, the gain should up at the high end where the C&L's inferior (supposedly) flow capability would have an effect. Look at all the other dyno comparisons we have seen comparing the particular companies CAI to the stock setup. They all show maximum gains at the high end. Secondly, if you look at the shape of the horsepower curve for the JLT it looks like most others (peak at ~5300rpm then relatively flat). But the horsepower curve for the C&L shows its peak at redline. No other '05 N/A curve that I have seen has that characteristic. Finally, look at the last note at the bottom of the dyno sheet: "SAME TUNED USED FOR BOTH PULLS WITH SOME MODIFICATION TO THE MRF CURVE". Because of the differences in the mass air meters, you can't use the same tune on both. Rather, each should have had a tune specifically optimized for the particular system on that day, on that dyno. Also, what was the modification done to the MRF curve?

I'm not saying it can't be true and if you are satisfied then thats great. But for me, I'm saying I'm not convinced it was apples-to-apples.

The Boss Hog . . . . . . :notnice:
[/b][/quote]


wouldnt the rich factory tune account for the loss of power at the top end?

Tucker

Well, guys here I am.
First off I would like to thank 2k5pony for the use of his ride for this comparo. And for all the help here.

second, for those who don't know about JLT, I've been in the business for only a year and have turned tho Cobra CAI world upside down. I have tested against all competitors kits and beat them all.
I'm a car guy, Mustang specific. I own a Cobra (7 past Mustangs)and a 3valve F-150 (kit coming soon) So I do know a bit about these cars.

I have gone through all the sceptics with all my kits, but you know what? Sooner or later the customers come around as more and more get them and do there own testing.

For those who don't believe the results, I'm sorry, but none of us are liers or cheats. I have a reputation to protect and BS'ing dyno #'s is no way for me to keep in good standing on the net. People dyno there cars all the time and if the results are not close they tell the world. So inflating #'s I will not do.

I saw this as a perfect oppertunity for me to do the first CAI comparision test on a 05. C&L has been bosting about 17&18hp gains and I thought I would see where I stand.

All you need to do is look at the JLT and the C&L and you will see where the power came from.

I'm sorry the dyno graph is labeled wrong. If you feel the need to get hung up on a typo over the fact that you can get twice the power for half the price then I'm sorry.

Now, someone mentioned the heat shield. Open your hood and look down behind the left headlight. It's lile a F-150, all open to the ground. There is so much air flow at 20mph a shield isn't neebed, BUT I'm working on one as I know people want them.
BUT BUT BUT, the C&L is aluminum!! Talk about heat. I know there is some very smart people out there who will know about Aluminum and heat. It's a "super conductor" This means it's the fastest metal to absorb heat and "conduct" or "transfere" this heat to the in coming air.
I know what your going to say " the airs going through there so fast it will not heat up" BULL. Tell me this: Where is the throttle position at idle or low cruising speed???? Almost CLOSED! How fast is air going through a pipe that is closed off at the end?? Not very fast, so what's it doing?? Heating up. I'm also sorry if you disagree with this, but it's pure fact, not opnion. Do a dyno pull after a hour drive and one after 1 hour cool down and you will see the HP difference. Plastic does not get hot, why do you think the factory made the complete intake plastic??

Anyway, I will not "give" these kits away to someone who sounds determend to prove me wrong, but anyone is welcome to buy one at almost half the price of the others.
$150 in black and $175 in body color. You WILL need a tune, so I offer a SCT Xcalibrator W/DTP custom tune for the JLT @ $425.
You can also do JLT complete and SCT tune on CD for $225
I also have the cables to connect the SCT to your PC.
I work with you on what you need.
Feel free to shoot me a email jay@jlttruecoldair.com or call 757 335 1940
I have many ready to go now.

Thanks all
Jay Tucker
JLT Performance

Tucker

Here's another pic:

Tucker

We tested 4 2005 GT and got repeated results everytime.
That's testing!
Here's another graph, stock vs JLT and DTP tune

The Boss Hog

That "logic" is so asinine, its laughable Let me know the next time you do a dyno pull with the throttle "almost CLOSED". BTW, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation as to why your "15%" increase in airflow results in zero gain at 6000 rpm. Also, just why did you cut off the run at 6000 rpm? Previously this same car with the C&L had been run to 6500 rpm.

I will say it again, you may well have the best CAI out there, but that graph and your "logic" doesn't prove it to me.

The Boss Hog


PS Aluminum is not "... the fastest metal to absorb heat ..."

Tucker

You are welcome to feel the way you do and there is no reason to be rude and start insurting each other. I'm not going to that leval with you, BOSS HOG.

Also, I wasn't at the dyno shop when this was done, so I can not answer that question. Why focus at 6000 when you can gain 20 RWTG from the time you hit the throttle to redline.

It gained power and that's that. Sorry you don't believe.
Have a great day.
Jay

The Boss Hog

My intention was not to be rude or to insult anyone. On re-reading my response, I may have done just that and for that, I apologize. My questions remain, but I could have been more tackful.

Have a nice day.

The Boss Hog

Black Magic

OK guys here's a deal for you. I live in North Carolina. I don't have a clue who Jay is but I have emailed him about his product. I am fixing to call him right now and buy one of these CAI from him. I have an appointment for a dyno test March 12th. I have never been on a dyno and have a 05GT Automatic without trap. The rest of my car is bone stock. My gear is in the garage. Anyway I plan to get a baseline on my car then add Jay's CAI. Stay tuned.

PONY XPRESS

Jay

Looks like a nice piece.

Is your unit supported by a bolt or clamp?

Is your tune available for 87 octane?

Thx

Black Magic

I am in Kinston. Will be going to waynesdyno.net for a dynojet pull. He has a dyno day on March 12th I think. 2 pulls for $40 and I think 4 for $60 with A/F check, allowing bolt ons and adjustments. I am checking on all of that. He is in Richlands NC near Jacksonville NC.