Newbie suspension advice.
1/31/08, 07:37 PM
#1
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Newbie suspension advice.
I want to upgrade my suspension, but I'm being realistic about what I want to do with it. I don't autocross, I don't even drive that fast most of the time, but I want to lower my car and improve cornering without sacrificing too much of the ride quality.
I've been reading many suspension threads on this forum, and seen so many setups it makes my head spin. I'm confused. However if there is a thread I've missed and it addresses this situation, I'll be grateful to be pointed in the right direction.
Basically, I'd like advice as to what I really actually need to lower the car about an inch, and be able to corner respectably for street driving only. I don't plan to increase the horsepower past about 320-350 unless I can magically develop the cash for a supercharger someday, which will NOT be soon, so I've got time.
I've looked at FRPP stuff, because Ford will not trash my warranty if I use it (the dealer said that 08's can use dealer installed FRPP parts). So I looked at the FRPP Handling pack.
I've also looked at the Steeda suspension packs, and various others. It seems to me that basically what I'm looking for is just springs and shocks. However reading the extensive thread on how suspensions work, it got me worried that I'm going to trash my tires without replacement ball joints, camber adjustment plates, an adj panhard bar or adjustable LCA's.
I've never set up a suspension before, so I have no idea what I need, but I've built so many computers it makes my head spin. And over time I've learned that you only need to buy enough to do what you want to do. So that's what I want.
At least a 1 inch drop, good cornering, no premature killing of the tires.
Help?
I've been reading many suspension threads on this forum, and seen so many setups it makes my head spin. I'm confused. However if there is a thread I've missed and it addresses this situation, I'll be grateful to be pointed in the right direction.
Basically, I'd like advice as to what I really actually need to lower the car about an inch, and be able to corner respectably for street driving only. I don't plan to increase the horsepower past about 320-350 unless I can magically develop the cash for a supercharger someday, which will NOT be soon, so I've got time.
I've looked at FRPP stuff, because Ford will not trash my warranty if I use it (the dealer said that 08's can use dealer installed FRPP parts). So I looked at the FRPP Handling pack.
I've also looked at the Steeda suspension packs, and various others. It seems to me that basically what I'm looking for is just springs and shocks. However reading the extensive thread on how suspensions work, it got me worried that I'm going to trash my tires without replacement ball joints, camber adjustment plates, an adj panhard bar or adjustable LCA's.
I've never set up a suspension before, so I have no idea what I need, but I've built so many computers it makes my head spin. And over time I've learned that you only need to buy enough to do what you want to do. So that's what I want.
At least a 1 inch drop, good cornering, no premature killing of the tires.
Help?
1/31/08, 07:46 PM
#2
Unless the lowered look is important to you, I wouldn't spend the money doing it. For what it sounds like you want, I'd buy some beefier sway bars and upgrade the tires. That will give you better handling without compromising your ride quality much at all. I love my Goodyears (see sig), but they're probably a 15K mile tire. Take the money you save on the lowering kit and all that goes with it and put it in your supercharger fund.
If nothing else, try the sway bars and tires first, then if you feel you still need more, you can do it in incremental steps.
My car handles like it has glue on the tires, and it's not lowered. In fact, I had an open track instructor drive my car on some hot laps, and she was very impressed with the way it handled. But if you're not going to the track, skip the chassis bracing mods and stick with the sway bars and tires. My car DOES ride rougher and I have more NVH with the chassis bracing mods.
If nothing else, try the sway bars and tires first, then if you feel you still need more, you can do it in incremental steps.
My car handles like it has glue on the tires, and it's not lowered. In fact, I had an open track instructor drive my car on some hot laps, and she was very impressed with the way it handled. But if you're not going to the track, skip the chassis bracing mods and stick with the sway bars and tires. My car DOES ride rougher and I have more NVH with the chassis bracing mods.
1/31/08, 08:06 PM
#3
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I agree with what Jon suggested, get the bigger rear and front bars. Lowering a car does not equate to a smoother ride, any anyone who thinks so are just kidding their-selves. To be honest, IMO the GT is pretty well balanced and predictable right of out of the wrapper. There was a lot of engineer and test track time to get it there. If you only go half the distance with just a lowering kit, I doubt the car handles any better, and most likely worse. Unless you correct front roll center, and rear instant center at the same time as lowering, you are just doing something in the wind and fooling yourself that its really that much better.
Galaxies thread on the subject covers it all if you want to do it right. IMO if you don't have the time and money to do it right, then just stick with the bigger sway bars, get some Tokio Spec-D's, and some better rubber and the car will really heandle great (and better), still be predictable and you won't have to shudder over every bump that comes along.
Galaxies thread on the subject covers it all if you want to do it right. IMO if you don't have the time and money to do it right, then just stick with the bigger sway bars, get some Tokio Spec-D's, and some better rubber and the car will really heandle great (and better), still be predictable and you won't have to shudder over every bump that comes along.
1/31/08, 09:57 PM
#4
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Hmm.. good food for thought.
Ok. So far, I do like how the car handles. My one complaint is body roll. I'm assuming the swaybars will help with this?
Second, I do want to drop the car a little. But not drastically. Basically like I said, I was thinking about an inch, or maybe just an inch in the rear, something to get rid of a little of the space in the wheel wells, but not as much as the FRPP Handling pack I saw on an SGT. I don't like it when the tire loses an even gap all around between the tire and wheel well. Will a one inch drop in the rear or all around change the instant roll center significantly?
At this point, I'm not doing the kind of driving that would make me interested in going the whole shot in replacing the majority of the suspension. What is significantly different about the Bullitt for instance that gives it a slightly lower stance besides springs?
If it matters, my plans in the future include sticking with 18's, but I do want to go to a staggered setup with wider rubber in the rear.
So far, a set of Tokico D-specs definitely look like they're on the buy list, can you guys recommend the swaybars?
Ok. So far, I do like how the car handles. My one complaint is body roll. I'm assuming the swaybars will help with this?
Second, I do want to drop the car a little. But not drastically. Basically like I said, I was thinking about an inch, or maybe just an inch in the rear, something to get rid of a little of the space in the wheel wells, but not as much as the FRPP Handling pack I saw on an SGT. I don't like it when the tire loses an even gap all around between the tire and wheel well. Will a one inch drop in the rear or all around change the instant roll center significantly?
At this point, I'm not doing the kind of driving that would make me interested in going the whole shot in replacing the majority of the suspension. What is significantly different about the Bullitt for instance that gives it a slightly lower stance besides springs?
If it matters, my plans in the future include sticking with 18's, but I do want to go to a staggered setup with wider rubber in the rear.
So far, a set of Tokico D-specs definitely look like they're on the buy list, can you guys recommend the swaybars?
1/31/08, 10:10 PM
#5
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When people say “I want to lower my car” I wonder why…looks or performance? If you want looks then go as low as you want but be prepared to correct the suspension geometry or it will handle worse then stock. If your going for performance that’s another story. You can get way better handling without having to correct your geometry. The stock suspension is too soft for a car this heavy. It was very hard to drive at the limit with the stock setup. I changed to Steeda comp springs and have adjustable shocks/struts (D-Spec) and the car handles exactly the way I want for now. My setup hardly lowered the car, so no need for a bump-steer kit or ball joints. It didn’t increase camber; I saved by not having to buy adjustable strut mounts.
Replacing the sway bars is one way to go. Another is drive it stock and spend some time on learning what you think needs to be improved. If you feel there’s too much understeer replace only the rear sway bar. If the car rolls too much in a corner upgrade the springs. If you can’t stand the wheel hop, replace the LCAs. Before you start replacing parts you need to learn what they do then change them accordingly.
As far as “ride quality” goes you can’t have both. The car can’t ride like a Town Car and handle like a Lotus.
Replacing the sway bars is one way to go. Another is drive it stock and spend some time on learning what you think needs to be improved. If you feel there’s too much understeer replace only the rear sway bar. If the car rolls too much in a corner upgrade the springs. If you can’t stand the wheel hop, replace the LCAs. Before you start replacing parts you need to learn what they do then change them accordingly.
As far as “ride quality” goes you can’t have both. The car can’t ride like a Town Car and handle like a Lotus.
1/31/08, 10:17 PM
#6
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Personally, I would start with something like the Steeda Ultralights. Minor drop, tuned more for a bit of a softer ride, easy on the wallet to start with. Drop those in and see what it feels like to you. If the body gets out of alignment in the rear and that annoys you, think about the adj. panhard bar.
Drive it around for a bit and see how you like it. Then, if you really feel it is necessary, get the D-Specs (or Bilsteins), but that might be $500+ better spent elsewhere for your needs.
Sway bars will help with body roll a bit, but stiffer springs will do more. Unfortunately, that comes at the price of ride comfort. With everything, there is a trade off.
I say, start small and see what each part does and how you like it. It is easier to add things later. Not so easy to return parts you don't really need or won't take full advantage of.
Drive it around for a bit and see how you like it. Then, if you really feel it is necessary, get the D-Specs (or Bilsteins), but that might be $500+ better spent elsewhere for your needs.
Sway bars will help with body roll a bit, but stiffer springs will do more. Unfortunately, that comes at the price of ride comfort. With everything, there is a trade off.
I say, start small and see what each part does and how you like it. It is easier to add things later. Not so easy to return parts you don't really need or won't take full advantage of.
1/31/08, 10:23 PM
#7
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When people say “I want to lower my car” I wonder why…looks or performance? If you want looks then go as low as you want but be prepared to correct the suspension geometry or it will handle worse then stock. If your going for performance that’s another story. You can get way better handling without having to correct your geometry. The stock suspension is too soft for a car this heavy. It was very hard to drive at the limit with the stock setup. I changed to Steeda comp springs and have adjustable shocks/struts (D-Spec) and the car handles exactly the way I want for now. My setup hardly lowered the car, so no need for a bump-steer kit or ball joints. It didn’t increase camber; I saved by not having to buy adjustable strut mounts.
Replacing the sway bars is one way to go. Another is drive it stock and spend some time on learning what you think needs to be improved. If you feel there’s too much understeer replace only the rear sway bar. If the car rolls too much in a corner upgrade the springs. If you can’t stand the wheel hop, replace the LCAs. Before you start replacing parts you need to learn what they do then change them accordingly.
As far as “ride quality” goes you can’t have both. The car can’t ride like a Town Car and handle like a Lotus.
Replacing the sway bars is one way to go. Another is drive it stock and spend some time on learning what you think needs to be improved. If you feel there’s too much understeer replace only the rear sway bar. If the car rolls too much in a corner upgrade the springs. If you can’t stand the wheel hop, replace the LCAs. Before you start replacing parts you need to learn what they do then change them accordingly.
As far as “ride quality” goes you can’t have both. The car can’t ride like a Town Car and handle like a Lotus.
1/31/08, 10:26 PM
#8
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Looking at the Steeda Comp springs (and Sport also), it appears there is a 1 inch drop front, 1 1/4 inch rear.
Sounds great to me, reduce roll, and I don't mind the stiffer ride. Anything else needed to make these springs work?
Or should I say, roll center adjustment parts required to make these springs work right?
Sounds great to me, reduce roll, and I don't mind the stiffer ride. Anything else needed to make these springs work?
Or should I say, roll center adjustment parts required to make these springs work right?
2/1/08, 05:29 AM
#9
Mach 1 Member
i have steeda sport springs on my 06, ride is a little bumpier, but not much. this is the only suspension mod i have done and the car goes around corners like its glued to the road. we have a cloverleaf here where our 2 major highways connect and i have taken them at highway speed before and car stayed. (i dont recommend doing this all the time!) nice improvement.
2/1/08, 06:27 AM
#10
You should read the sticky on how to lower the mustang "properly"
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=60937
A lot of great information is in that thread
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=60937
A lot of great information is in that thread
2/1/08, 06:39 AM
#11
Legacy TMS Member
keep an eye in the parts for sale section and save a few bucks that way.
If you end up just wanting to drop the rear you can always cut one coil off your stock rear springs. That will set the car level
If you end up just wanting to drop the rear you can always cut one coil off your stock rear springs. That will set the car level
2/1/08, 10:06 AM
#13
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Mackitraz,
Thanks for the post. You must be reading my mind. I am a computer guru turned gearhead by a black beauty with a 4.6 liter V8!
I want to do the same, improve the the handling and level the car while removing a bit of the wheel well gap. Performance and looks!
I did some research and it seems if you don't go more than an inch the geometry is not effected enough to warrant all the additional parts.
I am going with the kit from Saleen, I have read good things about it. The Saleen kit only lowers the car about an inch and rides better that the FRPP kit (which is very harsh I hear). I also looked at the roush kit but the price was too high in comparison $700 vs $1400.
Thanks for the post. You must be reading my mind. I am a computer guru turned gearhead by a black beauty with a 4.6 liter V8!
I want to do the same, improve the the handling and level the car while removing a bit of the wheel well gap. Performance and looks!
I did some research and it seems if you don't go more than an inch the geometry is not effected enough to warrant all the additional parts.
I am going with the kit from Saleen, I have read good things about it. The Saleen kit only lowers the car about an inch and rides better that the FRPP kit (which is very harsh I hear). I also looked at the roush kit but the price was too high in comparison $700 vs $1400.
2/1/08, 11:11 AM
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I would not use any comp/race spring with stock strut/shock. The Ultralite's can be used with stock. In my case the Steeda Comp springs lowered the car only 3/4" all around. I wouldn't go any other way.
2/1/08, 11:37 AM
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Mackitraz,
Thanks for the post. You must be reading my mind. I am a computer guru turned gearhead by a black beauty with a 4.6 liter V8!
I want to do the same, improve the the handling and level the car while removing a bit of the wheel well gap. Performance and looks!
I did some research and it seems if you don't go more than an inch the geometry is not effected enough to warrant all the additional parts.
I am going with the kit from Saleen, I have read good things about it. The Saleen kit only lowers the car about an inch and rides better that the FRPP kit (which is very harsh I hear). I also looked at the roush kit but the price was too high in comparison $700 vs $1400.
Thanks for the post. You must be reading my mind. I am a computer guru turned gearhead by a black beauty with a 4.6 liter V8!
I want to do the same, improve the the handling and level the car while removing a bit of the wheel well gap. Performance and looks!
I did some research and it seems if you don't go more than an inch the geometry is not effected enough to warrant all the additional parts.
I am going with the kit from Saleen, I have read good things about it. The Saleen kit only lowers the car about an inch and rides better that the FRPP kit (which is very harsh I hear). I also looked at the roush kit but the price was too high in comparison $700 vs $1400.
2/1/08, 08:01 PM
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If you drop an inch, you are reducing the bounce travel 33.3% and at stock ride height 3" is about all the bounce travel there is. It then requires stiffer springs and dampers to handle / control that reduced travel. While you gain roll stiffness with the stiffer springs, the sway bar is a more efficient way to achieve that. And even though lowering the car only the 1 little inch, you have dropped the front roll center more than that ... and that means more roll couple to the front end ... there goes the benefit of any roll stiffness you added.
2/2/08, 12:09 AM
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If you drop an inch, you are reducing the bounce travel 33.3% and at stock ride height 3" is about all the bounce travel there is. It then requires stiffer springs and dampers to handle / control that reduced travel. While you gain roll stiffness with the stiffer springs, the sway bar is a more efficient way to achieve that. And even though lowering the car only the 1 little inch, you have dropped the front roll center more than that ... and that means more roll couple to the front end ... there goes the benefit of any roll stiffness you added.
2/2/08, 09:58 AM
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Sorry for confusion, my comment was meant to be directed at Mackitraz, not you
2/2/08, 10:08 AM
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