SoundGuyDave

I haven't done ball joints on an S197 yet (I'm a "retired" mechanic), but there's usually an adapter with the balljoint press that lines up pretty well with the boot perimeter that can be used to snap the buggers on. Failing that, large diameter sockets will usually work. Otherwise, yes, a blunt flat-head would be the tool of last resort...

Cavero

Thanks doc, I needed that... I'll try not to overdose...

I'm pretty sure CR didn't even place the order for the balljoint, my credit card hasn't been charged to. They're so **** busy there I know how its easy to get lost in the work load. But after I dropped $2k on a suspension at their store and told them I needed it fast, called repeatedly to checkup on it, etc, I thought this order should have been a bigger priority. I've got a 9:30AM appointment with Springfield Motorsport Thursday morning for them to align the car and set the bumpsteer, and its litterally the only one I can get before the autocross. Why is the autocross such a big deal? Its not a competition, its a class which I'm doing with a group of friends for $200 each. Its literally an all day event with 40+ runs on the course. I only get to do this once a year so its a pretty big deal for me and I'm doing an actual competition on Sunday.

Thanks Dave and thank God for this forum. I gave Gus a call and the parts (balljoints, UCA) are being overnighted. He even gave me a discount for being a forum member! The shipping was rediculously expensive but you gotta pay to make up time.

I also went and picked up the digital level today. On sale for $30! As a technophile, I can safely say this thing is **** cool. Ok, now lets assume I know nothing about ideal pinion angles. What do I need to set it to? (what should it read at the trans and at the diff?)

I had the dealer order the linkage nuts, they'll be in on thursday. Not a big deal, I just put some Locktite on them for the time being, and they were holding their torque anyway. I found out what didn't hold its torque: the strut rod nut. It was very lose (not rattling or anything--yet). Unfortunately you can't use an impact wrench on the D-specs and I can't find a torque wrench with an open end that lets you use the 1/4" wrench to keep the strut rod from rotating. So I used a couple of open ended wrenches and some locktite and got it as much as I could. They were short wrenches so I don't think its quite the 40 ft-lbs needed but hopefully the locktite will hold it. Clunks are gone and the car is solid again! The vibration from the DS is the only problem right now.

Thanks for the tips guys! Question though, the Steeda online instructions say to remove the control arm. This necessary? How much of a PITA is it going to be to install the bumpsteer kit?

SoundGuyDave

Well, I have to say you sound a LOT more calm right now... Now to see what we can do to cover your questions...

First off, I don't know if you do or don't need to pull the control arm off, but if the Steeda instructions specify that, I would go for it. Pull the pinch-bolt at the bottom of the knuckle, and a the bolts on the K-member that hold the control arm on, and you should be in good shape. That way you don't need to mess with the strut and knuckle hanging in your face the whole time you're trying to swap out the balljoints. You have more bolts to pull, but in the end, you will probably save time and aggravation. Dave K has done these, so maybe he'll chime in as well on this issue.

For setting pinion angle, are you running a 2-piece or a 1-piece shaft? The procedures are a little different for each of them. If you do a quick search on the site, you'll probably find some good info. Also, if you run a 1-piece, don't be afraid to ask the manufacturer what pinion angle spec they want to see. Ron at Spydershaft is an awesome fount of knowlege on the subject!

For torquing the D-spec nuts, as well as the swaybar end link nuts, I use a short extension on the torque wrench, and adapter from 1/2" to 3/8" drive, and then a crowsfoot bit. This is like the business end of a flare wrench, but with a 3/8" drive opening instead of a handle. That will give you the clearance to grab the strut top with a wrench, and still apply measured torque.

Installing the bump-steer kit is child's-play compared to everything else. Bust loose the outer tie-rod end from the knuckle, grab the tie rod end with a wrench, and back off the jam nut just a touch. Spin off the tie rod end, and move the jam nut per the instructions with the kit (the bump-steer "socket" is shorter than the OE tie-rod end), and then spin on the bump-steer rod end until it hits the jam nut. Put a jack under the lower control arm and lift up the suspension until it's pretty well loaded. Then, arrange the spacers on the rod end until the tie rod is as close to parallel with the lower control arm as you can get it, then lock it all down, and tighten the jam nut. That's it. 15 minutes per side if you take your time.

Have fun at the school, and good luck on Sunday! Oh, and get some sleep ahead of time, and drink plenty of water (go easy on the caffeine), you'll be just that little bit more alert...

Cavero

It's a Coast 1-piece DS. Do I have to drop the DS to get a good flat surface on the flanges?

SoundGuyDave

You shouldn't have to... I don't remember if the Coast uses adapter flanges or not, but if you pop the trans in neutral, you should be able to rotate the shaft into a position where you have enough clear vertical surface to get the angle-finder planted. Measure the static flange angle at the trans, and at the rear end, with the rear suspension loaded and the car as close to parallel to the ground as you can get. A drive-on lift is ideal for this. The concept is to have the flanges parallel to each other under acceleration, so you will want to dip your pinion angle a touch negative. Exactly how much is sort of dependent on how compliant your rear suspension is, and anticipated use. With the setup you have on there, I would start with -2.0 degrees of pinion angle and start testing there. Your alignment is tomorrow, and school is Saturday, so you've got all day on Friday to play with pinion angle, thus no pressure at all. Start at -2.0 degrees, and test-drive. If you still have vibration, I would increase the pinion angle to -2.5 and see if it got better or worse. Once you get it to minimized vibration, then I would drop the shaft at the trans, spin it 180* and bolt it back up, and see if that made it better or worse. Then try the pinion end as well. Also, give Coast a call and see what they recommend for pinion angle. There will be some combination of clocking and angle that results in the minimum vibration at speed. 0.1-0.2* changes can make a big difference!

dkegel

<groan> I didn't even think to try that. Duh!

Dave

dkegel

Yes. I don't think there's enough room to use the press unless you remove the arm. It's not difficult, and the instructions are pretty good. The only somewhat cumbersome part is wrestling the control arm out of the k-member and then getting it back in. Of course, as soon as I got mine out I realized how heavy they are. Now I need some lightweight ones.

Dave

Cavero

Ok, everyone sorry for the delay. I've had one hell of a week.

So the last 2 parts finally came in on Wednesday, the ball joint kit and the UCA. I rushed over to the garage and started installing the X5's. Too bad no one had any idea how to use their ball joint press. I tried using their C-clamp based one to no result (it was in really bad shape), so I used the hydraulic bearing press...and pushed the ball joint stud and ball straight through the rest of the bearing! I used some different adapters to push the rest of the joint out and worked on putting the new one in. Hours later, I finally got it to go in straight but to by dismay, they were closing the garage at 9PM! Now stuck with a car half assembled on the lift, one of the shop hands who lived nearby gave me a ride home.

My girlfriend packed my bike in her car the next morning and dropped me off at work, and I called the local tuning shop, Springfield Motorsport who said if I could get the car in by 4PM they'd get it aligned and set the bumpsteer. Halfway through the day I took off early and started to ride my bike 9 miles back to the garage. Now in the likely chance nobody remembers a different thread about shifters I started, I currently have a broken elbow, even though its essentially healed. The doc told me not to ride my bike or if I couldn't help it definitely not to crash. Guess what! I was riding on the road and an RV doesn't move over as he overtakes me and forces me into the curb, the front wheel digs against the concrete and I go over the handlebars! First thing I think of is to tuck my elbow in and land my shoulder into the soft spring grass, gently blowing into the wind. I do a couple head over heel flips and land back on my feet, turn around and grab the bike out of the road and see that the hood (holds the brake lever and shifters) on the handlebars is bent, but I'll be damned if that'd stop me. I ran over to the nearest sign post, lined up the handlebar with it and forced the thing back. My right leg was a little sore but I pressed on and arrived at the garage.

Now using the hydraulic press with the fittings from the clamp based press I worked feverishly on the other side, and when I finished putting the new joint in (that one didn't want to go in straight either) I looked at my watch and realized I wouldn't make my 4PM cutoff, as I only had 15 min to put the control arm back on and drive back. My heart sank. All that effort. All that money. I called Sringfield Motorsport and told them. Then Michelle called to see how everything was going and after I got off the phone I looked at the time on it...MY WATCH WAS WRONG! I HAD AN EXTRA HOUR! I immediately called them back, told them I could make it and snapped back to it. After torquing all the bolts to spec, I put the wheels back on, dropped the car back down off the lift and moved the lift arms out of the way before the suspension settled down and I wouldn't be able to get them out from under it. I turned in my tools and checked out, and backed out. I heard this horrible squealching noise from my tires but had no time.

Holding the wheel 30 degrees to the left I rushed down to the shop with only 18 minutes to go. I hit a bump and the car dove for the ditch, but I corrected for it. I hit rushhour traffic at 3:50 and thought all was lost but pressed on. Rushing in the door to the shop at 3:57PM on this lovely Thursday afternoon out of breath with dirt and grease on my face and hands I hand the keys over and say "It's all yours". With giant grins on their faces, Eric and Alex at Springfield Motorsport say "You've been working hard, haven't you?!". "You have no idea..." They take it in and work their magic, and mercifully agree to install the bumpsteer kit from scratch too. I ask if they can have it ready tonight so I can do the autocross school in the morning. "In theory" was the reply. But these guys are dedicated racers, true mustang enthusiets, scholars, and gentlemen, etc. They stayed until 8:30 at night to get my car done and what a difference it made! I gladly forked over the extra cash (making the whole thing $525) to get it done in time.

Now for the suspension settings, the results were astonishing. The reason for the squealch on the painted shop floor and the erratic steering:
Before--
Left: Camber -0.7deg Caster 7.2 Toe -29/32"
Right: Camber -0.4deg Caster 7.2 toe -29/32"
Cross camber -0.3deg Cross caster 0 total toe -1 13/16
After--
Left Cam 1.0deg Cast 7.3 toe 1/32
Right cam 1.0deg cast 7.4 toe 1/32
crosscam 0 crosscast -0.1 total toe 3/32
Its amazing how much changing ball joints will screw up.
Question though, on the spec sheet they say that the Thrust Angle is 0.07deg. Is that the pinion angle? I forgot to ask at the time.

Cavero

Now for the evaluation:
The car is much more level in cornering than without the ball joints, and with the proper alignment, it feels much more confident in every turn. The car feels planted at much higher speeds. It doesn't feel like an entirely different car, but it does feel 5000% better. and the dropped back end helps rear visibility too! Funny thing is, with no other mods that benefit aesthetics, all of a sudden people notice the car more, I even had a group of kids wave me down saying "Nice car!". I guess as subtle as the drop is, it does make a big impact in looks, though I don't quite see that much of a difference.

Now as for the autocross, there was a big difference over last year in terms of lateral grip. At the extremes there was still body roll but much less than before. The Kumho tires were much less progressive than the Pirelli's I used to have so I couldn't manage the car as much I could last year. It was skiddish under braking and I wasn't used to their method of shuffling the wheel between my hands. The dyno tune from Tillman was WAY too agressive with the throttle mapping to the point of being unusable. So much as touch the gas more than an eighth of an inch and the back end would slide out. Even the instructor couldn't use it. So I reverted the car back to the 91 Performance tune CR adapted directly from the 93 race dyno program. It was much more manageable but the car still builds speed so fast and the back is still so squirly under acceleration that I couldn't use the engine to its full potential. I do hold some hope for my handling though. I didn't get the chance to install the Steeda adjustable upper control arm. Once the pinion angle is set right and I'm rid of that pencil eraser soft bushing, hopefully that will tighten things up.

Now as I raced throughout the day I came to a sad realization. While I was able to beat the instructor's lap time last year by a second or so, and I found that the car was limiting my lap times, THIS YEAR it was reversed. I could only get within 3 seconds of the instructor and I was the limiting factor, not the car. HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS. The same instructor set a 33.0 time in a stock Honda S2000 with crap summer tires and set a 34.5 in my car with arguably slightly less crappy tires (Kumho Ecsta ASX all seasons ain't exactly great). I couldn't believe the speed he took my car through that course. I think that's pretty **** good! The actual owner of the S2000 set like a 33.5 and I set a 37.5 (pathetic I know). So its all driver this year. Last year he set a 49 on the course at the time (which was a lot faster with two big straightaways...to my advantage) and I set a 53.8. So I'd say the car's handling is drastically improved.

But here's the thing, last year I would have to go slower or else my tires would start skidding. This year, I could go faster on the tires but as a result my steering wheel couldn't keep up. SO using their hand-to-hand shuffle I couldn't smoothly control my steering. And it was really apparent that a faster steering ratio would have helped. For now I'll just work on my technique because if I'm losing 3 seconds just on that, I've got a long way to go. But in the future I'd like to look at faster steering racks. Does anyone know of some better ones?

As for the rest of the weekend, saturday was a leisurely wine tour with the girlfriend and some other friends. Boring but there was some really good wine and she enjoyed it which is what it was really about anyway.

Sunday was the SCAA Autocross championship series at Fedex Field in Maryland. It was kinda cool looking at all the shelby kit cars and BMW's, CATERHAM SUPER 7's, CRX's, S2000's, MR2's, Miatas, etc. It was raining on and off all day but with it being a really fast course It stood to my advantage. Unfortunately, as I was getting ready to enter the queue and the thrill of the event was starting to set it, we got 2 bolts of lightning, bad wind, and a forecast of hail. So the cancelled it due to safety. They're trying to handle the logistics through the website but I don't know whats going to happen.

We're planning a "Test and Tune" event later on this spring/summer. No instruction, though one instructor will be there for tips, help, etc and we just get to run the course. It equals more driving and less money. I hope to get the car dialed in for handling and get my own skills up to par with my chassis. Even so, I know now that this car is never going to be as adept as an MR2 at autocrossing or a Saturn Sky Redline (A-stock class versus my original F-Stock). And I am in this for fun, though it'd be more fun with a better handling car. I think the UCA will help, and especially better tires (with stiffer sidewalls too).

SoundGuyDave

Well, hot ****!! It sounds like you had a great weekend! That whole "screaming hurry to make tech" thing is actually pretty typical of racing, at least in my experience. Even if you finish a week early, the morning of tech, you'll find that you suddenly developed a coolant leak, out of nowhere...

It sounds like you have a real beast on your hands now... The hand-shuffle thing is something that I've never learned, but then I've never autocrossed, either, and those courses are typically a lot tighter than the road courses I run. Generally speaking, I have my hands locked at 9:00 and 3:00, and they pretty much stay there. That said, though, many moons ago my room-mate (who was a cop) did a pursuit-driving course with the state, and was taught the same shuffle deal.

I'm heading to Gateway this weekend, and my main goals are to NOT turn-in early in one and hit the pit wall, and to NOT over-accelerate out of nine into NASCAR three and hit the outside wall... I'm guessing at 130-135mph front-stretch speeds for me on street tires... High pucker factor.

Seriously, though, it sounds like you're getting your car pretty well dialled in, and can now start working your skills up to match the car. Congrats!!

dkegel

Wow! Busy busy!

I assume your current camber settings are -1 degree, not 1 degree? As for the autocross, I must have missed it, but what tires are you running now? It sounds like you could use some nice sticky track tires.

Dave

Cavero

Yeah you're right that's -1 deg, lol. + 1 deg and i'd roll my car over

Running Kumho Ecsta ASX all seasons 255/50 R17

dkegel

Ah! That explains all the sliding around. Even some really good "summer only" tires would be a dramatic improvement over all-seasons.

Davd

RadBOSS

"hand to hand shuffle"

Not sure I fully understand your meaning. But if you are referring to encountering a tight turn where with your hands at the 3 and 9 o'clock position, you will have to release the wheel with either or both hands (alternating shuffle) to get more steering wheel rotation, then try this:

1) Assume tight right-hander coming up. Hands at the 3 and 9 o'clock position and you know you cannot make the turn w/o moving both hands on the wheel.

2) Before executing the turn, release your right hand, and place it on the wheel just above your left hand.

3) Letting the left hand side on the wheel and maintaining that 9 0'clock position with it, pull the wheel around as far as necessary with the right hand until the right hand is back at the 3 o'clock position (if you get that far)

4) If it’s clear you are still going to overshoot the 3 o'clock position to make the turn, then grip with both hands to continue the rotation.

5) As you exit the turn, back out of it opposite the way you came in, when the left comes around to the 9 0'clock, reach over to your right with the left hand and place it above the right hand and grip the wheel with it and continue to back-off steering angle while the right hand slips at the 3 o'clock until your left is at the 9 o’clock again then grip the wheel with both hands, unless you are now setting up for a tight left hander.

Practice this driving around your neighborhood until you get the movement down. If you do it right, you hands will only be touching the steering wheel in the area of the 3 and 9 o’clock positions. Once mastered, this will ensure smooth and even turn in’s or out’s w/o doing a shuffle. It also means at all times, at least one hand or the other has a firm grip on the wheel at the 3 or 6 o’clock wheel positions.

Import-Slaya

This is good advice. Practice, practice, practice around the neighborhood, etc... doing this. I thought I was doing it all the time on the track and my latest in-car video showed I'm only doing it about 50% of the time!

Now I'm a hand shufflin' fool--driving to work, the grocery store, etc... My wife just looks at me know and shakes her head.

RadBOSS

I know what you mean. LOL My wife gets upset when I practice hitting the apexes on the streets with lots of curves. A lot of these techniques you need to practice a lot until they become second nature. You don't want to be thinking about it when you are under the pressure of the clock or someone on your tail.