I thought MMFF was credible but I seriously doubt you can put enough air to create that much power into the motor safely without a tune. I would love to be wrong though. Maybe A BBK TECH needs a phone call to straighten this out.

 

I find it a tad fishy about the whole thing. This article is for the BBK TB, correct? The same BBK TB that has been advertised for months, and will become available around October 1st? And now we get the October issue of MM&FF, with these wild claims? Very clever...

 

 

Not sure if anyone else saw this or not, but near the front of the magazine there is an add for RPM Outlet. In the add they list the new BBK throttle body for $299. Could be a type-o but would be a much better deal than the Moto Blue.

If the price and review are legit, then count me in!

 

I called BBK about that and the difference is that theirs is a cast peice while the others are Billit

 

Will the material make a performance difference? For two hunded bucks more, the billit one had better blow me away.

 

So what is gain from the TB only (without the intake)?

 

Supposedly it will fit better, Probably no difference in performance unless you get a bad casting.

 

says without a tune and that stock computer will adjust .

 

Because this new TB is larger than the stock one I was concerned about my JLT cold air being able to stretch to fit it. Sent Jay an E mail and he said it would.

 

I have been following this BBK TB for awhile now and am really leaning towards making this one of my next mods. Even if you get half the HP that others state it would be worth the money.
Looking forward to hooking this up to my K&N. I wish my issue of MM&FF would come in allready so I can read up on it more.

 

They tested it with just the TB and with the TB + their CAI. Here are the numbers from my copy:

Just TB: 16.3 hp and 28.1 lb-ft
CAI only (stock TB): 15.2 hp and 17 lb-ft
TB + CAI: 27.2 hp and 37.8 lb-ft

Observations on the graphs: (TB + CAI)

The torque curve is much higher than stock all the way across the dyno (graph starts at 2000 rpm and goes to 6250). It looks like about 20 lb-ft across most of the curve. But, from 3600 rpm to 5500 rpm, you are looking at 30+ lb-ft improvements. Right in the meat!

The horsepower curve shows a constanst increase over stock from the beginning of the curve on up. Given that HP is calculated from torque and rpm (hp = torque * rpm / 5252), the increase over stock starts out small (maybe 10 hp or so) at 2000 rpm and keeps getting bigger as the rpm rises. There is a noticable jump at 3600 rpm and the peak hp increase occurs at 6250 rpm.

All in all, the BBK + CAI curves look NICE. The torque curve is flatter than stock and it definitely holds onto torque at higher rpm longer (hence the high hp increases).

Some thoughts on it's construction (and price): This TB is cast aluminum with CNC machining of the throttle bores, mounting surfaces and other critical surfaces (bolt holes for example). There are pros and cons to cast construction vs. billit construction:

Cast:
Pros: Low cost for high volumes. Cost goes down as volume goes up. Fast manufacturing.
Cons: Very high tooling cost. Lots of facilities required for making the bare casting. Possibility of casting flaws. Design of tooling is very critical. Very difficult to do one off work

Billit:
Pros: Easy to do one off work. Great for short production runs. High quality base material is very easy to get (if expensive). Intricate details can be machined in. No tooling to buy or make.
Cons: Cost does not decrease much with higher volumes. Expensive CNC tools required.

 

Good so you can be the guinea pig When it shows up, LMK and we'll meet at the dyno

 

I am leaning on the fence regarding this mod. Someone needs to get some independent testing done. Track and dyno testing will be the key. I am hoping that this MM+FF article holds true because this would be a nice mod.

 

Me to Max2000jp. Normally, there (MM&FF) dyno results seem pretty well inline with what folks on this forum are getting (look through the Sept, Oct issues at the exhaust shootout. They are getting 3-5hp increases for most systems, just as expected).

But I HAVE seen issues with their dyno results before. For example, I saw one before/after comparison were the the before numbers were "funny". Remember on thing: hp = torque*rpm/5252. What this means is that torque is ALWAYS higher than hp below 5252 rpm and hp is ALWAYS higher than torque above 5252 rpm. Period. No dyno callibaration, or corrections or anything can change this. If it does, it is BS numbers and you might as well throw them in the trash. On one test I saw, the HP numbers for stock were much lower (about 20 hp or so lower) than they should have been given the rpm and torque. Amazingly enough, the modified hp numbers were right were they should have been for the torque/rpm. Stuff like that sends up a VERY quick flag!

But! From looking at the graphs, everything looks right. I just have that issue with "no tune required" and yet they are talking about nearly a 30 hp/lb-ft improvement! That just doesn't seem to line up with the results most folks have had when making air flow improvements.

 

I Used to work at Brothers Performance Warehouse, and as you all know that one of the brothers of BBK (hence the name Brothers) owns that place and they are usually legit with there products. The young guy mike that you see on Horsepower TV used to work at Brothers and he got on that show from his knowledge. But neways My point is that they do a lot of testing there. I wanted to be the first 05' mustang on their dyno to get 300 RWHP but i was only able to squeeze out 297.2 to be exact. But the stuff that comes out of BBK is usually really good. and incase some of you were wondering I only stopped working there because I was in Highschool and it was a summer job when i was 16. But i did phone sales and tech support. Its funny schooling guys that are twice my age on how to make something work. But I believe that they make that much power.

 

Just how much quicker? Last time I checked there are more cars running "gears" that are still in the 13's when we have over 100 passes without gears N/A in the 12's.