habu

Are there any LT's that are CARB approved ?? Just checked the JBA site and I thought they were but it says off-road only.

I would like to, down the line, put on LT's if I'm not going with a Off-Road H/X pipe but don't want to have to worry about swapping headers every two years. Otherwise I'll just buy the shorties but would rather have the gains of the LTs. Speaking of shorties, how much do they affect the sound even with cats ??

Thanks

Cali HP addict

Not sure where you are located but long tubes are the bomb for sure! Here in California, smog rules are strict but you don't have to test for 5 years on a new car. IMHO if you can't go with long tubes, spend your dough on another mod. Shortie headers on an S197 just don't make enough HP to make sense.

habu

I'm in So Cal. I know I've got 'til 2012, or 2011, to worry about it, but after that it'd be every two years. If there isn't a CARB LT, then I'll have to get power somewhere else. BUT for sound Shorties...

Of course I could just get a roushcharger... or Saleen blower. I'd rather have the FRPP/Whipple but I don't think it'd fly by any stretch.

traffic142

I have not heard of any LT that are CARB legal.....Blower are now. Maybe in the future they will be. Check with Brenspeed, they sell a set of LT's maybe they can help.

70MACH1OWNER

Yeah... this has always seemed to be gray area to me. There are a number of LT headers out there that can be bought with cats. However, to the best of my knowledge none of them are CARB legal. So what's the point? Is it only half illegal when sold this way?
Scott

SixtySix

Technically...

Longtubes are illegal in all 50 states for vehicles that are not for off-highway use. They put those disclaimers on there for a reason.

BUT

Who enforces that law? The States. Everyone of them being a little different in what they check for and how they do emissions testing.

Heck you have some states that do those draconian annual inspections every year that will fail you for not enough washer fluid in your resevoir... (ok, that's a just a tad bit dramatic, but you get my point).

So read up on what your state tests for during their emissions testing on cars that are model year 96' and up and how often they do them, and make your decision about longtubes based on that.

And then there is the whole catalytic convertor LAW.... I'll save that for my next installment

65sohc

I believe the reason LT's fail to pass CARB muster is because the position of the cats and O2 sensors is altered. Since by necessity the cats are positioned farther downstream of the heads, they MAY not reach operating temp as quickly. This is considered a very big deal in the smog world since a large percentage of total pollutants are produced in the first few minutes following a cold start. I had an ML320 and the owners manual mentioned that the trans would delay upshifting when the engine was cold to purposely maintain higher rpm in order to heat the cats quicker. We're talking in terms of seconds here. That is how critical the tolerances are to meet the govt. regs. Therefore it is highly unlikely that any LT header will ever be granted carb approval. You say you don't think Whipple (which is headquartered about 5 minutes from me) will fly. What exactly do you mean by this? If you're referring to smog I think it is almost a foregone conclusion that it will pass in the future if it doesn't already. Supercharger manufacturers seem to have little problem getting CARB approval.

habu

well if there is any state in the union that would be **** about LTs it would be California and I'd be the one popped for it. I don't know where I got the notion the there were CARB LTs

Anyway, slightly changing the subject...

I know shorties offer minimal performance but what do they do to sound ? I've got the FRPP catted X-Pipe and Stingers. How much of a difference would they make ? It seems that even if the stock manifolds flow pretty good shorty headers can't hurt.

Or am I

As always thanks for the help and info. I appreciate it.

06GTwJUICE

16 bolts every two years.. for 30-40 possible hp from longtubes......

its worth the hour under the car swapping them out.

in my humble opinion

Justin00Stang

30-40 is a little high IMO, but just about every car I dyno tune with LTs make over 300rwhp. I haven't done a back to back, but I think its a good mod.

SixtySix

20-25 is a more realistic number

habu

OK then, two last questions.

Are LTs that simple to install/uninstall ? It doesn't look that it'll be that easy to get to the exhaust from up top. In fact It looks to be a serious pain.

If I decide against LTs how much of a difference will the Shorties make to the exhaust note/sound compared to stock ?

70MACH1OWNER

Hey Brian,
I can't speak to the sound difference between the LT and the Shorties but I would guess the LT's would be more aggressive sounding because you would most likely be running without any cats. With the shorties you can still run your stock cats and they tend to quite things down some. I have been toying with going with LT's for a year now and finally decided to just go with the offroad Mac Prochamber. My logic is it increases HP by 8-10 rwhp by losing the cats... it lowers the tone of the exhaust making it sound like you have more cubes than 281 and it simply costs less. You gain about half of the HP increase by losing the cats that you can gain from the longtubes. I can put my factory cats back on in about 1 hr. with this setup. If you run shorties and your cats your are still legal but will not gain any power for your trouble and expense. I think you need to decide if you are willing to take a walk on the wild side and go illegal and after you have made that decision it is just a matter of how far you want to go.
Scott And P.S. LT's are not easy to install. If you are laying on your back in the driveway and know what you are doing you can plan on it taking most of a full day. Longer if your unsure.

likemike99

the reason long tubes are not carb legal is because the law states any movement of the cats is an illegal mod. catted long tubes do pass emission tests, so if you are not in an analretentive state they just test and pass you.

SixtySix

Lot's of states that do test, only do an OBDII error code check on 96+ cars. So you'll also be safe as long as they don't do a visual. It's the visual inspection that'll get ya. Find out what your state checks for and then go from there.

habu

Thanks everyone I appreciate the info. I'm still on the fence a little bit but leaning towards the Long Tubs & O/R H. Gotta do a couple other things first but it will happen.

Cali HP addict

IMO, if you go with the longtubes, go with the hi flow cats. You won't lose any measurable hp, you will be doing the environment a favor, and your exhaust won't smell so strong.

habu

That is the plan so far. I rode in TacoBill's car last weekend and his has got an O/R H but stock manifolds and as much as I love the sound I can't imagine the unwanted attention LTs and O/R pipes would cause. If the hi-flow can tone it down a bit then I'd be happy.

DynamicmustangGT

yeah i cant even find a lace to install an o/r x or h-pipe in my area very **** annoying

Bullitt995

I like the smell of my off road pipes thank you very much.