Line Locks
2/18/06, 08:56 PM
#81
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blazing Saddles @ February 18, 2006, 10:33 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I don't understand why you would want the servos to assist in your braking every time you stop. They aren't designed for continuous duty. They are designed to only operate in a skidding situation. I suggest you do a little more research into this before you try it. I found enough info on the web to make my decision.
[/b][/quote]
these cars have a diagonal abs system that will increase or decrease pressure to each individual caliper. to do this it will take/add pressure from the other three wheels to accomplish this. the old abs systems just cut out for front and rear not side to side also. this is the only reason i can see for needing a solenoid on each side. i've installed many wilwood/jfz/aerospace/strange etc. systems on race cars and those systems aren't nearly as complicated as this factory abs is. i'm anxious to see what hurst says since the install instructions they wrote 15 years ago weren't intended for diagonal abs systems.
at some point i'm just gonna bag the stock brakes for some wilwoods and go manual so i can lose some weight but for now i'll stick with what works.
I don't understand why you would want the servos to assist in your braking every time you stop. They aren't designed for continuous duty. They are designed to only operate in a skidding situation. I suggest you do a little more research into this before you try it. I found enough info on the web to make my decision.
[/b][/quote]
these cars have a diagonal abs system that will increase or decrease pressure to each individual caliper. to do this it will take/add pressure from the other three wheels to accomplish this. the old abs systems just cut out for front and rear not side to side also. this is the only reason i can see for needing a solenoid on each side. i've installed many wilwood/jfz/aerospace/strange etc. systems on race cars and those systems aren't nearly as complicated as this factory abs is. i'm anxious to see what hurst says since the install instructions they wrote 15 years ago weren't intended for diagonal abs systems.
at some point i'm just gonna bag the stock brakes for some wilwoods and go manual so i can lose some weight but for now i'll stick with what works.
2/18/06, 09:19 PM
#82
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spyder7724 @ February 18, 2006, 9:59 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
these cars have a diagonal abs system that will increase or decrease pressure to each individual caliper. to do this it will take/add pressure from the other three wheels to accomplish this. the old abs systems just cut out for front and rear not side to side also. this is the only reason i can see for needing a solenoid on each side. i've installed many wilwood/jfz/aerospace/strange etc. systems on race cars and those systems aren't nearly as complicated as this factory abs is. i'm anxious to see what hurst says since the install instructions they wrote 15 years ago weren't intended for diagonal abs systems.
at some point i'm just gonna bag the stock brakes for some wilwoods and go manual so i can lose some weight but for now i'll stick with what works.
[/b][/quote]
Thinking out loud here...
The LL is just a direct pass through in everyday driving, It isn't there "really" as far as the abs dynamic, is it?...The diagonal abs system is a great idea...Hmmm, is there a setting in my Diablo for locking the front brakes until I move the clutch pedal?....Gosh, I hate to add wieght to the car with TWO solenoids....Heh, yeah , strip the ABS OEM and go aftermarket, that will lighten it up!... I can drive the wifes car to work...save mine for the track...
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
these cars have a diagonal abs system that will increase or decrease pressure to each individual caliper. to do this it will take/add pressure from the other three wheels to accomplish this. the old abs systems just cut out for front and rear not side to side also. this is the only reason i can see for needing a solenoid on each side. i've installed many wilwood/jfz/aerospace/strange etc. systems on race cars and those systems aren't nearly as complicated as this factory abs is. i'm anxious to see what hurst says since the install instructions they wrote 15 years ago weren't intended for diagonal abs systems.
at some point i'm just gonna bag the stock brakes for some wilwoods and go manual so i can lose some weight but for now i'll stick with what works.
[/b][/quote]
Thinking out loud here...
The LL is just a direct pass through in everyday driving, It isn't there "really" as far as the abs dynamic, is it?...The diagonal abs system is a great idea...Hmmm, is there a setting in my Diablo for locking the front brakes until I move the clutch pedal?....Gosh, I hate to add wieght to the car with TWO solenoids....Heh, yeah , strip the ABS OEM and go aftermarket, that will lighten it up!... I can drive the wifes car to work...save mine for the track...
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
2/18/06, 09:39 PM
#83
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blazing Saddles @ February 18, 2006, 10:33 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I don't understand why you would want the servos to assist in your braking every time you stop. They aren't designed for continuous duty. They are designed to only operate in a skidding situation. I suggest you do a little more research into this before you try it. I found enough info on the web to make my decision.
[/b][/quote]
Aren't the servos controlled by the wheels sensors no matter what you do? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]
I don't understand why you would want the servos to assist in your braking every time you stop. They aren't designed for continuous duty. They are designed to only operate in a skidding situation. I suggest you do a little more research into this before you try it. I found enough info on the web to make my decision.
[/b][/quote]
Aren't the servos controlled by the wheels sensors no matter what you do? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]
2/18/06, 09:49 PM
#84
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GIG4FUN @ February 18, 2006, 7:55 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Oh, I will ! (thank you)
I am for sure going to wait until I get an answer from the tech question. I told them that our lines are 1/4 into the ABS and 1/8 out.
ABS will not do anything on a stop unless is gets bad feedback. I am not worried about a duty cycle it won't see. Perhaps I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain that a bit more?
Great thread! We will eventually know a lot more about brake systems than we'll ever use again!
[/b][/quote]
If my car wasn't stored 65 miles away I'd go look myself.....but......where is the ABS unit located? And can the solenoid(s) not be positioned more easily just after that rather than down in the wheel well?
btw just the other day I odered a kit + additional solenoid + pistol grip shifter **** with button on the top. should be here next week. should have my car on the road again in 3-4 weeks.
Oh, I will ! (thank you)
I am for sure going to wait until I get an answer from the tech question. I told them that our lines are 1/4 into the ABS and 1/8 out.
ABS will not do anything on a stop unless is gets bad feedback. I am not worried about a duty cycle it won't see. Perhaps I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain that a bit more?
Great thread! We will eventually know a lot more about brake systems than we'll ever use again!
[/b][/quote]
If my car wasn't stored 65 miles away I'd go look myself.....but......where is the ABS unit located? And can the solenoid(s) not be positioned more easily just after that rather than down in the wheel well?
btw just the other day I odered a kit + additional solenoid + pistol grip shifter **** with button on the top. should be here next week. should have my car on the road again in 3-4 weeks.
2/18/06, 10:00 PM
#85
9 is not my lucky number.
Thread Starter
The ABS unit is right by the filter of the intake right behind the driver's side light. There's a black box with 6 lines comming out of it.
This might help
This might help
2/18/06, 10:17 PM
#86
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ February 18, 2006, 9:03 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The ABS unit is right by the filter of the intake right behind the driver's side light. There's a black box with 6 lines comming out of it.
This might help
[/b][/quote]
it does, thanks. is that 2 lines in and 4 out?
The ABS unit is right by the filter of the intake right behind the driver's side light. There's a black box with 6 lines comming out of it.
This might help
[/b][/quote]
it does, thanks. is that 2 lines in and 4 out?
2/18/06, 10:40 PM
#87
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When I did my research I looked at the Hurst instructions online at Summit. The instructions stated that they were not recommended for anti-lock brake systems. I called a tech at Hurst and asked about the ABS. They said that they had worked on the 96-99 Mustangs but were not tested on the S197 which uses a 4 port ABS unit. (2 front 2 rear.) The 96-99 uses a 3 port ABS unit (2 front 1 rear)
I knew Pauls High Performance was selling a kit for our cars so I called them. I asked them why they had a 2 solenoid kit instead of just 1. They told me that a single solenoid on the line from the master cylinder to the ABS unit causes a restriction in that line that under moderate or hard braking would cause the rear brakes to brake sooner than the fronts. They said that this would cause the rear tires to skid slightly and engage the ABS thus causing an un-necessary increase in stopping distance.
I also found several web sites for the 96-99 cars that said they had to pull the ABS fuse at the track while useing the line locks. I chose the 2 solenoid system because it was a proven system.
I knew Pauls High Performance was selling a kit for our cars so I called them. I asked them why they had a 2 solenoid kit instead of just 1. They told me that a single solenoid on the line from the master cylinder to the ABS unit causes a restriction in that line that under moderate or hard braking would cause the rear brakes to brake sooner than the fronts. They said that this would cause the rear tires to skid slightly and engage the ABS thus causing an un-necessary increase in stopping distance.
I also found several web sites for the 96-99 cars that said they had to pull the ABS fuse at the track while useing the line locks. I chose the 2 solenoid system because it was a proven system.
2/18/06, 11:07 PM
#89
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nonsensez9 @ February 19, 2006, 12:53 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Why did you choose the wheel wells?
[/b][/quote]
The wheel wells are the easiest place to put them. I wouldn't worry about road debris. It hasn't been an issue with mine.
Why did you choose the wheel wells?
[/b][/quote]
The wheel wells are the easiest place to put them. I wouldn't worry about road debris. It hasn't been an issue with mine.
2/19/06, 11:27 AM
#90
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blazing Saddles @ February 19, 2006, 1:10 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The wheel wells are the easiest place to put them. I wouldn't worry about road debris. It hasn't been an issue with mine.
[/b][/quote]
okay so they are wired and ready to go. testing in the garage they seem to work fine but until i get the rear sway bar hooked back up i can't test on the road to be sure. i used the horn button as my line loc activator. i have a on-off-on switch mounted under the hood so i can still have my horn when street driving. flip the switch and the horn button is the line loc button. neat and clean and easy. also it's a fused circuit.
FYI: the horn hot wire is yellow with a green stripe and is located on the passenger sidejust behind the grill near the fog light.
The wheel wells are the easiest place to put them. I wouldn't worry about road debris. It hasn't been an issue with mine.
[/b][/quote]
okay so they are wired and ready to go. testing in the garage they seem to work fine but until i get the rear sway bar hooked back up i can't test on the road to be sure. i used the horn button as my line loc activator. i have a on-off-on switch mounted under the hood so i can still have my horn when street driving. flip the switch and the horn button is the line loc button. neat and clean and easy. also it's a fused circuit.
FYI: the horn hot wire is yellow with a green stripe and is located on the passenger sidejust behind the grill near the fog light.
2/19/06, 12:14 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spyder7724 @ February 19, 2006, 1:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
okay so they are wired and ready to go. testing in the garage they seem to work fine but until i get the rear sway bar hooked back up i can't test on the road to be sure. i used the horn button as my line loc activator. i have a on-off-on switch mounted under the hood so i can still have my horn when street driving. flip the switch and the horn button is the line loc button. neat and clean and easy. also it's a fused circuit.
FYI: the horn hot wire is yellow with a green stripe and is located on the passenger sidejust behind the grill near the fog light.
[/b][/quote]
That is a good idea there!! just don't for get to turn it off...
I'll have to look at it next month and draw it on paper so I can do the same
okay so they are wired and ready to go. testing in the garage they seem to work fine but until i get the rear sway bar hooked back up i can't test on the road to be sure. i used the horn button as my line loc activator. i have a on-off-on switch mounted under the hood so i can still have my horn when street driving. flip the switch and the horn button is the line loc button. neat and clean and easy. also it's a fused circuit.
FYI: the horn hot wire is yellow with a green stripe and is located on the passenger sidejust behind the grill near the fog light.
[/b][/quote]
That is a good idea there!! just don't for get to turn it off...
I'll have to look at it next month and draw it on paper so I can do the same
2/19/06, 01:37 PM
#92
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(atomic_il @ February 19, 2006, 1:17 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
That is a good idea there!! just don't for get to turn it off...
I'll have to look at it next month and draw it on paper so I can do the same
[/b][/quote]
Or don't HONK at someone on the return lane!
very nice looking install. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
That is a good idea there!! just don't for get to turn it off...
I'll have to look at it next month and draw it on paper so I can do the same
[/b][/quote]
Or don't HONK at someone on the return lane!
very nice looking install. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
2/20/06, 03:31 PM
#93
9 is not my lucky number.
Thread Starter
I made some progress today on my line lock/fan control box wiring. I made a billet aluminum bracket that mounts under the passenger seat that holds the connector for the wires.
It's a little blurry but you get the idea
[attachmentid=45566]
With the control box plugged in
[attachmentid=45567]
It's got a little protective cover too! Live wires there.
[attachmentid=45569]
A view from underneath. I just noticed now that it's rusting under the seat. Is there any place on this car that doesn't rust?
[attachmentid=45570]
The final product
[attachmentid=45571]
I'll finish the rest of the wiring when I put the line locks in. The long cable under the seat is going to run up the center console to where I wire it under the dash.
It's a little blurry but you get the idea
[attachmentid=45566]
With the control box plugged in
[attachmentid=45567]
It's got a little protective cover too! Live wires there.
[attachmentid=45569]
A view from underneath. I just noticed now that it's rusting under the seat. Is there any place on this car that doesn't rust?
[attachmentid=45570]
The final product
[attachmentid=45571]
I'll finish the rest of the wiring when I put the line locks in. The long cable under the seat is going to run up the center console to where I wire it under the dash.
2/20/06, 09:21 PM
#94
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ February 20, 2006, 5:34 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I made some progress today on my line lock/fan control box wiring. I made a billet aluminum bracket that mounts under the passenger seat that holds the connector for the wires.
It's a little blurry but you get the idea
[attachmentid=45566]
With the control box plugged in
[attachmentid=45567]
It's got a little protective cover too! Live wires there.
[attachmentid=45569]
A view from underneath. I just noticed now that it's rusting under the seat. Is there any place on this car that doesn't rust?
[attachmentid=45570]
The final product
[attachmentid=45571]
I'll finish the rest of the wiring when I put the line locks in. The long cable under the seat is going to run up the center console to where I wire it under the dash.
[/b][/quote]
how are you hooking in to the low speed fan? i've not looked at any of that yet but it's on my list. great idea for quick cool downs.
I made some progress today on my line lock/fan control box wiring. I made a billet aluminum bracket that mounts under the passenger seat that holds the connector for the wires.
It's a little blurry but you get the idea
[attachmentid=45566]
With the control box plugged in
[attachmentid=45567]
It's got a little protective cover too! Live wires there.
[attachmentid=45569]
A view from underneath. I just noticed now that it's rusting under the seat. Is there any place on this car that doesn't rust?
[attachmentid=45570]
The final product
[attachmentid=45571]
I'll finish the rest of the wiring when I put the line locks in. The long cable under the seat is going to run up the center console to where I wire it under the dash.
[/b][/quote]
how are you hooking in to the low speed fan? i've not looked at any of that yet but it's on my list. great idea for quick cool downs.
2/20/06, 09:25 PM
#95
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spyder7724 @ February 20, 2006, 8:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
how are you hooking in to the low speed fan? i've not looked at any of that yet but it's on my list. great idea for quick cool downs.
[/b][/quote]
There is quite a bit of discussion re: that in this thread (it's long, but a lot of good info):
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...6681&hl=Meziere
how are you hooking in to the low speed fan? i've not looked at any of that yet but it's on my list. great idea for quick cool downs.
[/b][/quote]
There is quite a bit of discussion re: that in this thread (it's long, but a lot of good info):
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?sh...6681&hl=Meziere
2/20/06, 09:28 PM
#96
9 is not my lucky number.
Thread Starter
The line lock solenoid install will come as soon as it gets warm. I was at Mike's house yesterday and he won't do it until it gets warmer. I should also mention that Mike's cat is the only cat that has ever jumped on the hood of my car and lived.
2/20/06, 09:45 PM
#97
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ February 20, 2006, 10:31 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The line lock solenoid install will come as soon as it gets warm. I was at Mike's house yesterday and he won't do it until it gets warmer. I should also mention that Mike's cat is the only cat that has ever jumped on the hood of my car and lived.
[/b][/quote]
The irony of cats on cars is that the faster you try to get them off, the more they'll scratch the paint as they're scrambling to avoid being fed to the dogs. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
The line lock solenoid install will come as soon as it gets warm. I was at Mike's house yesterday and he won't do it until it gets warmer. I should also mention that Mike's cat is the only cat that has ever jumped on the hood of my car and lived.
[/b][/quote]
The irony of cats on cars is that the faster you try to get them off, the more they'll scratch the paint as they're scrambling to avoid being fed to the dogs. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
2/21/06, 12:07 AM
#98
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ February 20, 2006, 2:34 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'll finish the rest of the wiring when I put the line locks in. The long cable under the seat is going to run up the center console to where I wire it under the dash.
[/b][/quote]
Good stuff. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] I eagerly await the wiring photos as I haven't a good grasp on the electrical end of things. Maybe I'll get an audio installer to do it for me if I can't make heads or tails out of it.
I'll finish the rest of the wiring when I put the line locks in. The long cable under the seat is going to run up the center console to where I wire it under the dash.
[/b][/quote]
Good stuff. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] I eagerly await the wiring photos as I haven't a good grasp on the electrical end of things. Maybe I'll get an audio installer to do it for me if I can't make heads or tails out of it.
3/5/06, 10:23 PM
#99
9 is not my lucky number.
Thread Starter
Made some progress this weekend on the wiring. I have the circuitry done on the control box. With all the relays, it's like shoving 5 lbs of poo in a 10 lb bag. I might have to use a bigger box. I couldn't figure out how to wire some of the status lights, they weren't working. I used a trusty DC generator to help me wire it.
I installed my autometer gauges, so I ran the wires for the solenoids at the same time through the firewall. You just undo the fasteners in the wheel wells and remove the rear shroud. Be careful not to damage the fasteners. I got a 10 pack at the dealer because they were breaking left and right.
Here are pics of the passenger side.
[attachmentid=46419]
[attachmentid=46420]
The driver's side is the same thing. I got my brake fittings and line too at Autozone. I'll post the part numbers for those later, the receipt is in the car.
I installed my autometer gauges, so I ran the wires for the solenoids at the same time through the firewall. You just undo the fasteners in the wheel wells and remove the rear shroud. Be careful not to damage the fasteners. I got a 10 pack at the dealer because they were breaking left and right.
Here are pics of the passenger side.
[attachmentid=46419]
[attachmentid=46420]
The driver's side is the same thing. I got my brake fittings and line too at Autozone. I'll post the part numbers for those later, the receipt is in the car.
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