Lets talk gears
11/4/04, 10:40 AM
#21
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Something to remember in this discussion...
'05 tire diameter is 2" taller than the SN95 (27.5" vs. 25.5"). The 3.55 gear in a manual GT is equivalent to...
25.5/27.5 X 3.55 = 3.29
in the '04 SN95. Putting a 4.30 gear in the '05 GT would be like a 3.99 final drive in the '04. I'd be putting a 4.30 or even a 4.56 in my GT.
'05 tire diameter is 2" taller than the SN95 (27.5" vs. 25.5"). The 3.55 gear in a manual GT is equivalent to...
25.5/27.5 X 3.55 = 3.29
in the '04 SN95. Putting a 4.30 gear in the '05 GT would be like a 3.99 final drive in the '04. I'd be putting a 4.30 or even a 4.56 in my GT.
11/4/04, 03:34 PM
#22
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Another thing to remember in this discussion is that you cannot really compare the new modular 3V to the 2V pushrod engine.
They are both 4.6Ls, but they are different animals. Pushrod engines have more down-low torque, and modulars need to be revved more to get the torque. However, the modulars have more power once they do get revved more.
That is how Ford got 40 more hp out of this engine. So, for those saying "my pre-05 GT drives like this or that" it isn't really a valid comparison. Just look at the difference in the dyno charts between the two...
They are both 4.6Ls, but they are different animals. Pushrod engines have more down-low torque, and modulars need to be revved more to get the torque. However, the modulars have more power once they do get revved more.
That is how Ford got 40 more hp out of this engine. So, for those saying "my pre-05 GT drives like this or that" it isn't really a valid comparison. Just look at the difference in the dyno charts between the two...
11/4/04, 05:56 PM
#23
Originally posted by Shea@November 4, 2004, 4:37 PM
Another thing to remember in this discussion is that you cannot really compare the new modular 3V to the 2V pushrod engine.
They are both 4.6Ls, but they are different animals. Pushrod engines have more down-low torque, and modulars need to be revved more to get the torque. However, the modulars have more power once they do get revved more.
That is how Ford got 40 more hp out of this engine. So, for those saying "my pre-05 GT drives like this or that" it isn't really a valid comparison. Just look at the difference in the dyno charts between the two...
Another thing to remember in this discussion is that you cannot really compare the new modular 3V to the 2V pushrod engine.
They are both 4.6Ls, but they are different animals. Pushrod engines have more down-low torque, and modulars need to be revved more to get the torque. However, the modulars have more power once they do get revved more.
That is how Ford got 40 more hp out of this engine. So, for those saying "my pre-05 GT drives like this or that" it isn't really a valid comparison. Just look at the difference in the dyno charts between the two...
Welcome to 1996, ALL 4.6L V8s are Modular V8s and ALL are OHC, 2V, 3V & 4V.
:crazy:
11/10/04, 05:27 AM
#25
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Originally posted by Big-D@November 4, 2004, 1:43 PM
Something to remember in this discussion...
'05 tire diameter is 2" taller than the SN95 (27.5" vs. 25.5"). The 3.55 gear in a manual GT is equivalent to...
25.5/27.5 X 3.55 = 3.29
in the '04 SN95. Putting a 4.30 gear in the '05 GT would be like a 3.99 final drive in the '04. I'd be putting a 4.30 or even a 4.56 in my GT.
Something to remember in this discussion...
'05 tire diameter is 2" taller than the SN95 (27.5" vs. 25.5"). The 3.55 gear in a manual GT is equivalent to...
25.5/27.5 X 3.55 = 3.29
in the '04 SN95. Putting a 4.30 gear in the '05 GT would be like a 3.99 final drive in the '04. I'd be putting a 4.30 or even a 4.56 in my GT.
I would agree with you for street racing but not for drag racing. You need to remember that the tire diameter for a typical drag radial (Nitto 275/40R17) is only 25.6 inches. Running those with 4.30 gears would result in 4th gear at 6,000 rpm being 103 mph. Doesn't give much room at the top end. I think I'll go with 4.10's which will give me a few mph to grow into at the track (108 mph at 6,000 rpm).
The Boss Hog (just my opinion . . . . .
)
11/10/04, 09:50 AM
#27
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Well I think I am going to go with the 4.10 eventually. I have been researching shift points and people have reported that you should shift at around 5600 when racing. I feel that you will have to shift into 4th no matter what to get the best ET and traps. It seems like the 05 GT is choking up top for some reason, since the traps are lower than I expected. Maybe this will change soon when people test Cold Air Intakes and catless x-pipes.
11/16/04, 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by The Boss Hog@November 10, 2004, 6:30 AM
Big-D,
I would agree with you for street racing but not for drag racing. You need to remember that the tire diameter for a typical drag radial (Nitto 275/40R17) is only 25.6 inches. Running those with 4.30 gears would result in 4th gear at 6,000 rpm being 103 mph. Doesn't give much room at the top end. I think I'll go with 4.10's which will give me a few mph to grow into at the track (108 mph at 6,000 rpm).
The Boss Hog (just my opinion . . . . . )
Big-D,
I would agree with you for street racing but not for drag racing. You need to remember that the tire diameter for a typical drag radial (Nitto 275/40R17) is only 25.6 inches. Running those with 4.30 gears would result in 4th gear at 6,000 rpm being 103 mph. Doesn't give much room at the top end. I think I'll go with 4.10's which will give me a few mph to grow into at the track (108 mph at 6,000 rpm).
The Boss Hog (just my opinion . . . . .
)
11/17/04, 05:45 AM
#29
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Originally posted by The Boss Hog@October 26, 2004, 11:33 AM
I have a slightly different point of view on changing rearend gears. I think the real problem with the manual is the huge split between 1st (3.38) and 2nd (2.00) gear. Shifting at 6,000 rpms means the engine drops to about 3550 rpm! Far below its torque peak. The auto has a much better split (3.22 - 2.29) meaning it drops to about 4250 rpm which right in the fat part of the curve! To me, the ideal drag-racing solution would be to change out the 1st gear in the 3650 to something like a 3.00 and then go with the 4.10.
I checked the Tremec website but they don't list any alternate gearing for the 3650. Anyone know of a source?
The Boss Hog
I have a slightly different point of view on changing rearend gears. I think the real problem with the manual is the huge split between 1st (3.38) and 2nd (2.00) gear. Shifting at 6,000 rpms means the engine drops to about 3550 rpm! Far below its torque peak. The auto has a much better split (3.22 - 2.29) meaning it drops to about 4250 rpm which right in the fat part of the curve! To me, the ideal drag-racing solution would be to change out the 1st gear in the 3650 to something like a 3.00 and then go with the 4.10.
I checked the Tremec website but they don't list any alternate gearing for the 3650. Anyone know of a source?
The Boss Hog
11/17/04, 04:46 PM
#30
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Originally posted by vld+November 17, 2004, 8:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vld @ November 17, 2004, 8:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-The Boss Hog@October 26, 2004, 11:33 AM
I have a slightly different point of view on changing rearend gears. I think the real problem with the manual is the huge split between 1st (3.38) and 2nd (2.00) gear. Shifting at 6,000 rpms means the engine drops to about 3550 rpm! Far below its torque peak. The auto has a much better split (3.22 - 2.29) meaning it drops to about 4250 rpm which right in the fat part of the curve! To me, the ideal drag-racing solution would be to change out the 1st gear in the 3650 to something like a 3.00 and then go with the 4.10.
I checked the Tremec website but they don't list any alternate gearing for the 3650. Anyone know of a source?
The Boss Hog
I have a slightly different point of view on changing rearend gears. I think the real problem with the manual is the huge split between 1st (3.38) and 2nd (2.00) gear. Shifting at 6,000 rpms means the engine drops to about 3550 rpm! Far below its torque peak. The auto has a much better split (3.22 - 2.29) meaning it drops to about 4250 rpm which right in the fat part of the curve! To me, the ideal drag-racing solution would be to change out the 1st gear in the 3650 to something like a 3.00 and then go with the 4.10.
I checked the Tremec website but they don't list any alternate gearing for the 3650. Anyone know of a source?
The Boss Hog
No, it is the gear reduction ratio difference between the gears. The 1,2,3 gear ratios are much closer together in the automatic than the 1,2,3 gear ratios in the manual. Which means you drop less RPM during the 1-2 and the 2-3 shifts in the auto than you do in the manual.
The Boss Hog
11/19/04, 06:50 PM
#35
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Originally posted by 2005RedGT@November 19, 2004, 5:01 PM
I just got back from the shop where I had 4.10 installed on my 2005 GT / Auto. It made a huge performance gain as well as off the line performance.
I just got back from the shop where I had 4.10 installed on my 2005 GT / Auto. It made a huge performance gain as well as off the line performance.
The Boss Hog
11/20/04, 03:16 PM
#36
Originally posted by The Boss Hog@November 19, 2004, 7:53 PM
Did you have to have your computer reprogramed for the correct speed? Did it confuse your auto into shifting at the wrong rpm?
Did you have to have your computer reprogramed for the correct speed? Did it confuse your auto into shifting at the wrong rpm?
At what RPM does the trannie shift is another good question. It will depend if the trannie shifting is primarily driven by engine RPM or road speed (along with engine load).
11/20/04, 04:34 PM
#37
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Originally posted by V10@November 20, 2004, 6:19 PM
...Most newly designed Ford's use a wheel sensor (RR) for driving the odometer. This means that when you change gears, the odometer STILL reads the CORRECT speed. ...
...Most newly designed Ford's use a wheel sensor (RR) for driving the odometer. This means that when you change gears, the odometer STILL reads the CORRECT speed. ...
The Boss Hog
11/23/04, 07:09 PM
#38
Originally posted by The Boss Hog+November 20, 2004, 5:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Boss Hog @ November 20, 2004, 5:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-V10@November 20, 2004, 6:19 PM
...Most newly designed Ford's use a wheel sensor (RR) for driving the odometer. This means that when you change gears, the odometer STILL reads the CORRECT speed. ...
...Most newly designed Ford's use a wheel sensor (RR) for driving the odometer. This means that when you change gears, the odometer STILL reads the CORRECT speed. ...
The Boss Hog [/b][/quote]
The 99 - 04 Stangs are based on an old platform, so a lot of things in them go back many years. The speedomoeter is one of them. Its sensor is on the trannie so you need to correct it if you change gears. But they do use an electronic sensor. A couple different companies make electronic "corrector" adapters.
Since the '05 Stang is all new and steals a lot of its electronics from the Lincoln LS, my guess is that it uses the new system with the wheel sensor, so the speedometer will not neet to be corrected when you change gears.
12/7/04, 11:00 AM
#39
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My 4.10's made a huge improvement....I' running right about 2600rpm at 75......Pulls like a jet and the Bassani's sound awesome. I'm sure the x-pipe's not hurting things either.....Outside of Bryan's '05, there's nothing in this town that'll hang with mine when it comes to '05's.....You won't be disspaointed with the 4.10's.....I was out the door for 515.00 with parts and labor so it was fairly economical for the performance it gave. Sure did wake the car up in a hurry!
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