Again you are missing the point completely.

For the test to be real, a custom tune would need to be done on a dyno with the stock intake and the carbon trap removed....

Then add the CAI and the what ever custom tune is supplied by the CIA manufacturer.

The difference would be the net gain due to the CIA....

And for the record, a generic tune like the one in the predator GT IS NOT a custom tune. A custome tune is one made specifically for the given hardware and otcane rating. It will generally yield 50% more hp than a generic tune.

Has anyone noticed that NO ONE who sells the CIA's has done ( or at least published ) a test with a custom tune with only the carbon trap removed?

I saw this first hand and the net gain was 27hp......

 

I think most companies that tune and has a dyno will not allow someone to prove a CAI unworthy. There are some guys floating around that have had tremendous gains with just a tune and removing the HC trap. If I owned a business, why would I not want to make another $150-$250 for just the CAI and another $75-$150 for dyno time and another tune? I really think that with a good tuner, they can get these 05's, without the HC trap, performing the same as having a CAI-with safe numbers. No one can honestly say as a matter of FACT that the CAI is truely beneficial. I don't think anyone can get an objective tune or dyno numbers showing this. Do you think any dealers would hate SCT or Diablo for making 2 different tunes or formats to accomodate the CAI vs. non-CAI setups? Who here doesn't want to make more money?

 

You are flowing more air into the engine vs the stock intake. It's a no brainer that its going to add power. I have never seen a stock intake that is perfect. Ford tuned the stock intake for many different variables, all of which extract some power from the stock airbox.

 

I will take this opportunity to interject some humor into the thread!

forget all this "which intake is better?" ramblings, and just bolt on a supercharger! WOOO!~ (eyes his bank account with about $2 in it) well...maybe not

 

You are right Divon, Forced induction is the way to go....

Still saving up for that Saleen Charger.......

 

I did my first tune & dyno with only the HCTrap removed + SCT tune.
* Results: 23rwhp gain
* View: http://www.mymustangpage.com/2005redgt/page5

My Second dyno with MMR intake:
* Results: 15rwhp gain
* View: http://www.mymustangpage.com/2005redgt/page11

My Forth Dyno with the JLT intake:
* Results: 10rwhp gain over the MMR
* View: http://www.mymustangpage.com/2005redgt/page19

Some of use have been doing some research . Overall, I have seen a few JLT's installed and even helped do the install . The dynos have been about 20rwhp OVER the tune itself. I vote for a JLT kit over the stock and MMR. I cannot speak to the C&L nor the Steeda. However, the Steeda & MAC are much like the MMR and I cannot belive that they would compate to the JLT and C&L mainly becuase of the new intake tube. Unless the restrictive intake tube is changed, you will not see massive gains.

Also, on the 05, there is TOO much airflow under the hood, as seen by the hood shakes. The enclosures are not as usefull as they once were, nor is it that important to place the air filter inside the fender.

I hope some of this helps you make your decision.

-Bryan

 

I must correct you on my quotes. I do not think nore said, the sole reason the JLT made more power then the C&L was due to Intake material.
I said it helps.
I would like to see a dyno test done on kits stone cold then drive for 30 minutes, take temp readings of the pipe itself then dyno them again. I would have $ on a power lose due to heat soak on one kit.

The JLT made more power due to the interior diameter, straighter air path and tune.
I understand what your getting at here, but it's alot to ask. Dyno time isn't cheap and to do a in depth test as you want would take 8-10 hours to be done right. That's only comparing 2 kits.
These cars are very heat sencitive and need equal cool down time, plus the tuning isn't a 5 minute deal.

Anyway, there's a ton of good info on this site, I'm sure you can find what your looking for.
Thanks
Jay

 

Good Info,

Were all of the dyno runs preformed with the same Tune?

If not, I would like to see which tune was used with which dyno pull...

Thanks...

 

The car was custom tuned each time. There is no way a canned tune would work for each of my mods

-Bryan

 

Or Laughing Gas Just DON'T run it lean

 

The car was tuned for max power, using SCT, with the C&L.

Then the JLT was installed and the DTP/JLT "can" tune was installed and ran again.

Simple as that. No hokus pokus or pixie dust.
Just kidding
Jay

 

Here is the point that I have been trying to make.

I am willing to bet that the tune used to test the stock intake with the carbon trap removed was simply the SCT "generic" premium 2005 tune.

The tunes used to test the CAI's were probably tunes that are the result of many hours of dyno and or datalog ( street ) testing with the particular CAI installed. In other words, these tunes are custom tunes designed to bring out the max possible power. This type of tuning typically yields about 50% more hp than a generic tune. I had my 2000 F150 doe this way and I did pickup about 50% more hp than could have been realized with a generic tune.

If this type of custom tuning was done on the stock intake with only the carbon trap removed, I doubt that there would be a big difference between the stock intake and the CAI's....

That is all I have been trying to say all along.......

 

I see what you are trying to say, but you don't take into account that the tunes offered by C&L and JLT are generic as well. They aren't custom tuned for each individual vehicle, rather tuned with safegaurds in order to appeal to the mass market. I am sure that if I went to a good tuner and we worked on a custom tune specific to my vehicle, it would outperform C&L's generic tune by X amount of hp.

CAI's are proven to add power, end of story.

 

I never said that the CIA's did not add hp, I only question how much.....

The tunes sold with the CAI's are indeed custom tunes. They are designed to make more hp than the generic tunes offered by SCT and Predator. They are designed to make the most of the hardware avaliable. Since the tunes are designed to work ONLY with the particular CIA, they can be written in a less generic set of parameters thus safely producing more hp....

To my knowledge, no one is selling a tune designed specifically for the stock intake with the carbon trap removed. If it was avaliable, it would clearly show less of a hp gain from the CAI...

End of story...

 

The CAI tunes are generic. The C&L tune isn't custom tuned to a specific vehicle. All the tunes, albeit the 93 Octane Predator tune or 93 octane SCT tune were designed and calibrated on the dyno to make power. You can say that the CAI tunes are custom designed for that particular brand, but they aren't truely a custom tune.

 

If the tune for the CIA's is generic, then why not use the same tune to test each CAI?

The answer is, that the tunes are by definated custom made for the CIA....

The CIA narrows one of the possible parameters. In this case air flow. This allowes the tuner to be more specific with the tune than would otherwise be safe. That is why they are custom ( or less generic if you prefer. ) The more parameters that are known the more specific the tune can be. This a significant reason why the CAI's along with their custom tunes make more hp.

I will try to make this clear...

Obviously the CIA manufactures sell a tune that is specific to their kit so they can narrow the parameters and make as much hp as possible. This is why the tunes are NOT interchangable.

If someone did the same thing and narrowed the parameters to the specific CIA ( which in this case would be the stock intake with the trap removed ), it would preduce more hp than the more generic tunes offered by SCT and Predator because the tune could be calibrated to the specific air flow patterns with this "Specific" combination.

I know you disagree, and that is fine....

Thanks for the dicsussion..... It was informative...

 

I think the problem stems from your definition of custom tune vs mine. A custom tune to me is vehicle specific. I take my car to a dyno and use a wideband o2 sensor to measure the A/F ratio. Then the tuner makes the necessary timing and fuel adjusments to get the proper A/F ratio. Anything else is just a generic tune IMO. I am not relying on a tune created across the country with many different test variables.

 

To be fair, I do now think that the CAI's do add more hp than I originally thought even if the tunes ( CIA vs Stock with trap removed ) were of the same, let us say "quality".

I estimate based on what I have seen and what was posted here, a quality tune with the stock intake with trap removed will yield between 20 - 30hp. The best I have seen personally was 27hp with the trap removed and about an hour's worth of Dyno tuning....

I looks like a CAI will probably add 8-10hp more with a quality tune to go with it....