Lime GT

Not only does ethenol increase corn prices but wheat and other field grown products as farmers switch crops to growing corn since it draws more money. Ethenol is a short term solution to a long term problem.

RRRoamer

I'm not sure it is even a short term solution. More of a short term feel good.

Deric

Sugar actually produces way more fuel. The thing is Henry Ford knew this in the 20's and the world would be a much different place than it is now if we would have used biofuel from the beginning.

RRRoamer

I agree 100% with you bud! The problem is the US just can't grow enough sugar to support our fuel habit. The climate is too cold and too dry over most of the US to grow sugar in the quantities needed for hydrocarbon replacement. Too bad though. Just hope that the grass ethanol works out soon.

andyukok442

Well even though this theme has gotten pretty political I'm gonna do the change, I'm getting the DialbloPredator with a CAI and E85 tune from rune85.com gives me the opportunity to swap back if needed.

metroplex

I glanced through this thread and don't recall you mentioning your goal for converting to E85.

If it is to save on gas or reduce dependence on foreign crude, E85 is not the answer and any "data" you see is based on junk science. If your goal is for more power (especially with forced induction), then E85 is a good alternative. It's priced lower at the pump than actual 105-110+ octane unleaded, thanks to your taxes subsidizing the cost of E85.

There are some new cars coming out in the next few years that are FFV's (can use E85) and produce over 300-400 hp when E85 is used, and only 200 or so hp when regular gas is used. However, your fuel economy will generally suffer when E85 is used although I'm sure that forced induction and direct injection can mitigate this loss somewhat.

SStang

Not as cheap and plentiful as corn (in this country). If it was, they wouldn't put nasty corn syrup in pretty much everything on the shelves at the grocery store. When they start putting real sugar in my coca cola again, I'll start believing we have less corn than we know what to do with.

metroplex

Our corn is used for consumption. We don't have the agricultural infrastructure to support E85 like Brazil does with their sugarcane. Some theorize/believe switchgrass can be used to produce cellulosic E85 without affecting our food supply or feed for livestock. Regardless, E85 at best is only a stop-gap for fuel issues. Hydrogen fuel cells and electric motors are probably going to take us well into the 22nd century. It is a very clean and renewable energy source. They have demonstrated the capabilities of hydrogen fuel cells in performance applications. Electric motors are like diesel engines on steroids. They produce an extremely flat "torque curve" and can produce peak torque off the line. It'd be a matter of finding proper gearing for a light chassis to manufacture a green sports car.

RRRoamer

Agreed 100%!

We shall see...

Yeah... But... The problem is that you STILL have to produce the electricity or the hydrogen. Free hydrogen only occurs (in large quantities) in a few places in the solar system: The sun and the gas giants. It takes POWER to separate the hydrogen from oxygen to get the gas to run your fuel cell. It takes POWER to charge the electric car.

Until they quit using hydrocarbons to make electricity, all you did was transfer the problem from direct transportation to indirect transportation. We are still burning oil and natural gas to make all that electricity.

Nuclear power could solve this problem, (unlike wind or solar for that matter) but most people really don't want to think about it. We have a HUGE reserve of untapped geothermal energy as well that has a lot more potential than solar or wind power.[/quote]

Amen! I've always wanted a fully electric car for running around town. One with a brushless DC motor built into each wheel at about 125hp each. Keep that think under 2000 lbs and you would have a REAL party ready to roll!

andyukok442

Just a hi octane fuel that I can run my car on without having to rely on gas...plus I'm going back to Europe next year, taking my Mustang with me and believe me E85 is a lot cheaper there plus there are motor tax benefits, no congestion charges in some places etc.

Hollywood_North GT

E85 is a complete scam - like throwing bricks in the Grand Canyon or trying to stop a bursting **** with a band aid. The best it can ever hope to achieve - assuming all corn farms in North America ran at full capacity churning out corn for NOTHING but ethanol production - would be a 4% dent in oil dependency.

We are being sold a phony bill of goods on this one, folks. Ethanol ain't the answer. Hell, it ain't even an effective stop-gap.

andyukok442

So oil dependancy isn't a scam? Of course not!! George Bush and his daddy have nothing to do with pushing up the price of gas either! I never said E85 was a complete solution and I'm a firm believer that it isn't but it's a good path to go till we get one.

RRRoamer

If you want to know what has happened to oil prices over the last 8 years or so, you need to take a look at a few things objectively first:

1) What has happened to world wide oil demand in the last decade? Take a close look at India and China. There is a LOT more demand today than there was a decade ago.

2) What has happened to US refining capacity over the last decade (heck, go ahead and compare it to the last THREE decades if you REALLY want to scare yourself!)

3) What has happened to US oil production over the last decade?

4) What has happened to US exploration for new (known and unknown) resources?

We have put ourselves in this situation with the help from the assorted "Green" movements. They have fought any kind of exploration, any kind of development and any new refineries for the last couple of decades.

Remember the bill to drill in Anwar that was defeated 6 years ago? At the time, the opponents to the bill (mostly democrats, but some republicans as well. Pretty much all lefties) said things like "But it will take 5 to 6 years for that oil to hit the market! It won't make any difference NOW!" If they had passed it, we would have something like 150 million barrels a year coming into the US market right now. If I recall, gas was "only" around $1.80 at that time...

We have banned drilling off the coast of US. So instead of US companies drilling for oil using our systems and our safety procedures, we have Chinese companies drilling for the same oil via Cuba instead. That makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

And what about shale oil? Oh, right! Congress just put the world's largest shale oil reserve off limits to exploration!

Of course, all the oil in the world won't do us a whole lot of good getting our cars down the road without refineries. The last new refinery was built over 30 YEARS ago! Take a REAL close look at the demand increase over the last 3 decades. Does it makes sense why our refineries are running at 100% capacity? And they STILL can't refine enough fuel. We now import something like 30% of our refined fuel. That costs money, and not just for fuel. All the "extra" stuff that is made from crude oil also cost more because we are not refining the crude in this country.

So feel free to blame the President if you want. But don't forget to tag the blame to Congress as well. They are the ones that have hosed you and your wallet.

Vermillion06

I agree. All this money being spent for hydrogen research/development is a waste in my opinion. We should be doing more work to improve nuclear power, making it more efficient and safer.

mhconley

Ethanol from Corn is bad for a variety of reasons:

1. Ethanol requires more energy to make than it delivers as a fuel. It is not saving our environment - it is hastening its destruction.
2. It is driving up the cost or gasoline, corn and all other crops as more farmers replace their crops with corn.

Ethanol is a scam perpetuated on the American society by our corrupt politicians.

Vote the bastards out!

Martin

mhconley

Foreign oil dependency is a scam! Especially at $100 per barrel.

We could be producing 100% of our current oil needs and gasoline would be back under $2.00 a gallon with two simple steps:

1. Open ANWR to drilling.
2. Produce oil from coal.

Why aren't we doing this today? Ask your Senators and Representatives.

Vote the bastards out!

Martin

SStang

Um, no, those two things would barely put a dent in our dependency on foreign oil.

The US currently uses over 20 million barrels a day of crude. If it was opened right now, ANWR at its peak would meet around 5% of our needs. Every year it stays closed that number will get lower (because we use more, and the amount there stays the same).

And there's nothing stopping anybody from producing oil from coal right now... except for the fact that it makes about as much sense as producing gasoline from corn.

andyukok442

All I want is a good combustible fuel which runs cleaner than gasoline, E85 may not be that yet but it has more potential than any other "combustible" fuel right now. Electric power, hydrogen cars are great and I would also run a car on these other energy sources but I want my Mustang to run a fuel which has the power, sound and feel of the good old combustion engine. That's why we drive these cars, no?

Shawn13

Well saidE85 is not the answer for global fuel needs. It is a great fuel for hot-rods. IMO.

Shawn13

This is the best post I have read in a long time.. Thank you