wild stray

Thanks Johnny, I'll look forward to those numbers also, whenever they become available.


Paul.

Cleveland

I definitely dont trust those numbers one bit. I think BBR should take up using another dyno to prove "correct" figures.

-Dan

DeathMonk

It was done on a mustang dyno... they're pretty common.

Cleveland

A port & polish on the stock heads and a reground cam core should not be able to produce that kind of power with the 3V heads.

Read from the discussion @ corral.net, Fourcam330 knows what he is posting about.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=707198

-Dan

max2000jp

How do you know that? I talked to a well known cam company and they stated an estimated 20-30 rwhp gain from a cam(s) swap. This is prelimiary of course. Couple that to the heads, it's very believable. Livernois Motorsports dynoed their P&Ped heads and got similar results on a mustang dyno. Minor bolt on GT's dyno 300RWHP, do the math.

169stang

The fella in that thread at corral is stating some info that he says are facts and is in doubt of the numbers. What he did was offer BBR to pay for the work on dyno and flow numbers to see if they are accurate numbers. He's an engine builder with tons of experience and he just wants to confirm his current knowledge or further his knowledge. The guy Fourcam330 sounds like he know's what he's talking about. He could talk circles around me, that's for sure. I don't have the knowledge to get into those debates. Fourcam330 is definately a 4V guy and really wants to know the the capability is of the 3V. It's cheaper for him to challenge someone that's done a bunch of the work to pay for dyno and flow testing then it is for him to buy the parts and put it all together. I say that makes him a intelligent business man!

Cleveland

I think somebody should make a call to BBR and get them to reply to FourCam.

-Dan

169stang

What kind of power did it make on pump gas?

max2000jp

That guy FourCam330 lost all credibility in regards to the 3V. He stated "The stocker (TB) flows more air than you'll EVER use." Anyone want to show him the dyno gains from the LFP 62 mm TB????

Sonic Brew

I'm going to give them a call. I was planning on doing it anyway today, so I'll see if I can get some of these questions answered.

Sonic Brew

It was run on 93 pump gas.

Cleveland

I think you should read through some of his comments. If the larger TB made more power than just a few ponies I guess you could say that he loses cred but he does mention that the Acufab TB on a 500hp NA 4v motor only netted about 8hp. Thats not much.

I wont "waste" my money on a whole new Throttle Body because it just wont make the power that is claimed when using pump gas. Numbers get bumped all the time, I looked at the Paul's HP IMRC delete plates dyno in some mag just recently and it was over advertised by 10hp throughout the powerband. A call to Paul warranted more realistic ###.

The point here is that BBR is overadvertising what their mods will do to post big sale $$$. Its nothing new.

Should we all not go out and buy their stuff though because their numbers are not factual? Of course not, they still make power but we just dont know how much exactly. I'd rather wait around for a bit till more manufacturers release their stuff for the 3v to bring down prices.

-Dan

max2000jp

He was referring to an entirely different engine. I read his comments and while he has experience on other motors, it seems he hasn't done much with 3V's. His comment on the TB shows his lack of knowledge on 3V's. There was an independent dyno of the LFP TB on this forum and it showed a considerable gain in an F/I application and roughly 9 whp in N/A form.

As for BBR's numbers, while an independent dyno would be great, don't yet discount the numbers just yet. There are people on here that make 310 rwhp with bolt on mods. Add in an aggressive cam and heads and 385ish sounds plausible. Livernois Motorsports dynoed their 3V Ported and Polished heads and found a gain of 45 rwhp. This was on a near stock vehicle.

Cleveland

Correctly calibrated torque measuring device (Mustang or other) and Octane rating are what need to be addressed when any dyno sheet is produced for advertising purposes. I still call BS for their numbers and I have a bit more info than most here. Thats all Im posting so have fun with this kaka storm.

-Dan

Please do not try to get around the language filters...thank you...

max2000jp

I agree that an independent dyno test is needed. I am just saying that the numbers could potentially be realistic on a dynojet. That car would be making roughly 400 rwhp on a dynojet. Next year, Patriot Performance will have heads out for our car and Crower will have cams. I am still trying to decide what to do with my car to make big power.

Sonic Brew

Condsidering that some people claimed the 3v couldn't take any boost, and what do you know they can. I think we should wait a little before claiming BS on people. And like mentioned before, bolt ons are making 300 rwhp, so cams and heads its possible. I'm not saying we should take every ones word as truth, but atleast lets not discredit them before they can respond.

169stang

Agreed. I am one that seeing is believing-objectively. I've done it myself as far as changing a few old school mentalities with proof. There are always going to be those that will not ever believe things that are against their foundational beliefs. They need to see it for themselves. Which is the hardest type to prove things too, because they will do just about whatever to discredit. As for this situation, calling BS is a bit much. Doubtful, yes, based on what I've read. Possible, yes, you just never know. This is probably one of the first dyno sheets I've seen with this setup. There will be many to follow, so we'll either eventually see objective #'s or wait for some other company to put the goods out there for objective #'s. If it's factual, truthful info, then you'll see objective info. I won't be spending that kind of money to get my own objective #'s though. The one thing in my mind that makes it doubtful is the fact that there is a load of money invested in making this work. A company that has that much invested in a product will do what they need to justify the costs and sell it....or, abandon it. My .02

05mineralgrey

This thread is so typical... it seems everytime something new comes out for these things that someone will call bs, then a whole argument will be started. When I first joined the board, people had the first MMR intake, then C&l came out with theirs, and claimed huge increase over the MMR, people were calling BS all the time, and now it has been proven, and tons of people got those results. next came Jay and the JLT CAI, same darn thing, nobody wanted to believe these numbers either, and on, and on, and on. Recently it was the 900000+ post on the Throttle body spacer, it took a detailed post, and 5-6 people's opinion on the matter, now people will generally agree that they give a decent gain, while reducing the common dip in the torque curve, and now here we are, port and polish and cams, 370+ hp, and people instantly were against the numbers... I say, if he said he got the numbers, has the graph, then I will believe him, and start saving up, if you disagree, shut it... nobody cares, we are supposed to be here to test for each other, and help one another out, not bring down the people that are sticking their cars out on the line to test, so we dont have to.

169stang

If this is so typical then your entire post is redundant. It's one thing to toss $100 or so on a mod that may or may not give you a gain. It's entirely another thing when your talking a couple thousand! When you have an engine builder that challenges the numbers and offers to pay for the proof, I'm open to learn something. Some say it's impossible numbers and others just don't know. I, for one, just don't know. I'll wait until you finish saving your pennies to test this out and see what you dyno at or run in the 1/4 mile. Atleast it's objective numbers and not numbers from someone with a vested interest. It'll take someone outside of BBR to do this mod and provide the numbers for many to be believers. Just like you stated about the detailed post by someone and the 5-6 followers for the TB spacer. As I stated before, it's not fun money when you're talking $1000's for the majority. Do you go around to every thread telling people to shut up if they have doubts? Rude... :notnice: I don't agree with saying it's impossible, because I don't know this for a fact...and neither do you.

Route 66