CMDP and Tune issues.
7/26/07, 11:58 PM
#22
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Leo, try to understand that Doug is still getting caught up, but if you just hang in there and keep e-mailing and calling him ? He will answer and do everything he can, to fix any issues you're having with your tuning files..Best of luck, Rocky
7/27/07, 11:55 AM
#23
GT Member
Thread Starter
Sorry to hear about this.
It sounds to me that your car has issues that are related to the cam phaser gear, and not necessarily a tune. IMO it's time to sell/trade THIS car. I"d bet the farm that you will not have the same problem if you got another S197. If however this experience has left you with a bad taste in your mouth then by all means move on to a different model.
It sounds to me that your car has issues that are related to the cam phaser gear, and not necessarily a tune. IMO it's time to sell/trade THIS car. I"d bet the farm that you will not have the same problem if you got another S197. If however this experience has left you with a bad taste in your mouth then by all means move on to a different model.
I don't care what anyone says about how great their tuner is about responding back to them, I have read on several forums about all of the tuners not getting back to there customers, yes even Brenspeed. Now I am not saying that this in intentional it's just a fact of business, most people will put off doing the free-bees when your backed up on paying customers, heck I do it.
Fred, Doug, Brent, Justin and now Lonny (BlueOval) are all good tuners or they would not be talked about so much on these forums, so I am sorry if I said anything that stated that they are bad, because they are not.
I can't sell my car, I'ts the last car painted in mineral grey at the factory, I mean the last one, I am trying to get a letter from ford stating this, I got a verbal on it.
Anyway I just think the car is a "Christine" it has a mind of it's own, all the tunes I have got had issues, some worse than others. I don't think it has an issue with the phaser gears because with out the CMDP the car ran strong on the EVO 93 tune, consistant 13.1 - 3 1/4 mile and 8.4 1/8 mile times.
This morning it was chilly out, I got out early , normally when I get on the road it's already hot high 80-90's and humid but today I tried to step on it and WHAM.. there was power, nice response the tires roared while the car squatted and shimmied a bit, revved up to 6000rpm and shifted into 2nd and the cars rear end shifted left to right with a loud screeching noise, then revved again to 6000 and hit 3rd and screeched again, I was in total shock, I am like dam where did that come from… That’s what I am talking about…
Some what baffled at the recent event, I drove my 30 mile commute to work, getting off the highway just a few miles from my destination I try again, but this time nothing, no high revve’s, no shimming just that frumpy low end bog. So I have figured out that if the air is cool and low humidity and the engine is cold, the tune is SWEET. As soon as the car warms up…SOUR
7/27/07, 01:13 PM
#24
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Justin has always returned my emails, either the same day or the next, even after receiving my money.
My advice for you, is to tear down the car to the delete plates just to be sure that nothing is loose. I would also switch those 2 fuel injectors just to be sure. If the issue still exists after that, try a tune from Justin for $50.
My advice for you, is to tear down the car to the delete plates just to be sure that nothing is loose. I would also switch those 2 fuel injectors just to be sure. If the issue still exists after that, try a tune from Justin for $50.
7/28/07, 07:17 PM
#25
GT Member
Thread Starter
I switched the two reversed injectors on friday and made sure the intake was torqued correctly but it did not help, do I captured som data logs for Doug when he gets back.
Well it's Definitely the tune, Fred got back to me this morning and updated my performance 93 tune with the Delete plates and it does not have the lag or loss of power.
I like the shift schedule of dougs i think it's better for a race tune, if only I can get rid of the tip in to 3000 rpm bog or lag.
PIDS USED
LOAD
RPM
MAF Voltage
PEDAL POSITION
SPARK
SPARK SOURCE
IAT
Coolant Temp
Returnless Fuel Pump Duty Cycle
Pressure Drop Across Injectors
Anyone know what they call the Timing and Timing source PIDS?
Well it's Definitely the tune, Fred got back to me this morning and updated my performance 93 tune with the Delete plates and it does not have the lag or loss of power.
I like the shift schedule of dougs i think it's better for a race tune, if only I can get rid of the tip in to 3000 rpm bog or lag.
PIDS USED
LOAD
RPM
MAF Voltage
PEDAL POSITION
SPARK
SPARK SOURCE
IAT
Coolant Temp
Returnless Fuel Pump Duty Cycle
Pressure Drop Across Injectors
Anyone know what they call the Timing and Timing source PIDS?
7/29/07, 09:25 AM
#27
GT Member
Thread Starter
It's not really over yet, I still need to determine whats going on, I had a very knowlegable person look at the logs on another forum and she came up with the folowing conclusion on both the Evolution tune and Bama's
and another person chimmed in who was looking at the logs as well
As far as the tunes them selfs, I think the Evo Tune is a conservative Performance 93 tune, and the Bama Race tune is trying to push the limits, I would like to get it right because I think the Bama tune would be awsome if It will work on my car. I may look into getting a cooler T-stat too just because my car seems to run hotter than others at the track,
Originally Posted by Turbo_J
On the tune from EVO the timing is a little better, about 17-18 @ WOT.
On the logs with the other MAF the timing was even better on the cold run - 24-25
On the hot run the idle IAT was down 15* to 130 and was already dropping before you went WOT. Timing was down to 14-15* This does not mean there was an issue with the temp sensor because I don't know if your conditions were exactly the same, but I'd leave this MAF in for now.
I think your issues may be more due to coolant temps than IAT under load. You are at about 140 on the cold runs and near or over 200 on the hot runs. There are two spark modifier tables for ACT and ECT (that's two each) under spark in Advantage. The product of these two tables produces an advance or retard of total timing run by the car. This is where I would ask the tuner to poke around. You don't want to be too aggressive and end up with retard due to knock, but you should be able to get a little more out of the car hot. You may want to have them lower the fan on setting in the scalers if that's not been done already. My low speed comes on at 192, high speed comes on at 204* - oh and high speed under load comes on @ 210. For ECT and ACT, in my tune the retard based on ECT was modified - slightly less retard at a slightly higher temp (I don't loose timing due to temp till 206*). ACT was modified the opposite, a little more retard in the 140 IAT range; A temp you should not be exceeding without some serious ambient temps and/or bad heat soak.
On the logs with the other MAF the timing was even better on the cold run - 24-25
On the hot run the idle IAT was down 15* to 130 and was already dropping before you went WOT. Timing was down to 14-15* This does not mean there was an issue with the temp sensor because I don't know if your conditions were exactly the same, but I'd leave this MAF in for now.
I think your issues may be more due to coolant temps than IAT under load. You are at about 140 on the cold runs and near or over 200 on the hot runs. There are two spark modifier tables for ACT and ECT (that's two each) under spark in Advantage. The product of these two tables produces an advance or retard of total timing run by the car. This is where I would ask the tuner to poke around. You don't want to be too aggressive and end up with retard due to knock, but you should be able to get a little more out of the car hot. You may want to have them lower the fan on setting in the scalers if that's not been done already. My low speed comes on at 192, high speed comes on at 204* - oh and high speed under load comes on @ 210. For ECT and ACT, in my tune the retard based on ECT was modified - slightly less retard at a slightly higher temp (I don't loose timing due to temp till 206*). ACT was modified the opposite, a little more retard in the 140 IAT range; A temp you should not be exceeding without some serious ambient temps and/or bad heat soak.
Originally Posted by Asixer_(Tino)
I was thinking the hot air is being sucked at idle is extremelly hot, your IAT don't start cooling untill you actually move........
I am no expert on this but spark is pretty high at idle (40) looks to me like the car is doing a lot of compensating at idle and recovers somehow when running but it takes time to do so.... (hence the performance issues)
I still think there is a mechanical issue, and the tune is compensating for it..... something is wrong at idle.......... and it is producing a crap load of heat......
I am no expert on this but spark is pretty high at idle (40) looks to me like the car is doing a lot of compensating at idle and recovers somehow when running but it takes time to do so.... (hence the performance issues)
I still think there is a mechanical issue, and the tune is compensating for it..... something is wrong at idle.......... and it is producing a crap load of heat......
7/29/07, 09:51 AM
#28
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Get in touch with Justin, and ask him to look over them for you. Tell him what you've gone through with tunes, and ask if he can guarantee a fix if you paid the $50 for his tune.
7/29/07, 01:03 PM
#29
GT Member
Thread Starter
I have emailed him and he has not responded, I let him know my past and present issues. I guess he to is away.
7/30/07, 03:32 PM
#31
GT Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, My son works for Ted Britt Ford so I could get some employee discounts or maybe some overstock items :-) .
8/1/07, 07:24 PM
#32
GT Member
Thread Starter
I lost over a Second in the 1/8 Mile with this tune and Delete plates.
I made three passes and all were the same 9.5 times.
I need help with this tune or should I just forget Delete plates It does not look like they are going to work on my car. Has Anyone experienced this?
I took Bamachips this tune to the track and well here are the results
Todays Temp 90 deg
r/t - .655
60' - 2.254 (no wheel spin)
330 - 6.243
1/8 - 9.525
mph - 75.14
My Average time at this track this summer Temp 87 Deg
r/t - .548
60' - 2.014
330 - 5.522
1/8 - 8.505
mph - 81.72
I made three passes and all were the same 9.5 times.
I need help with this tune or should I just forget Delete plates It does not look like they are going to work on my car. Has Anyone experienced this?
I took Bamachips this tune to the track and well here are the results
Todays Temp 90 deg
r/t - .655
60' - 2.254 (no wheel spin)
330 - 6.243
1/8 - 9.525
mph - 75.14
My Average time at this track this summer Temp 87 Deg
r/t - .548
60' - 2.014
330 - 5.522
1/8 - 8.505
mph - 81.72
8/1/07, 08:20 PM
#33
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Dang man, I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you, my CMDP's went in with no hitch and am happy with them. I hope you get it figured out!
However, the main thing to remember is Fred's tune works fine after adjustment, so you're right in thinking it's probably the tune. Has Doug seen the logs? What has he said?
However, the main thing to remember is Fred's tune works fine after adjustment, so you're right in thinking it's probably the tune. Has Doug seen the logs? What has he said?
8/1/07, 10:32 PM
#34
GT Member
Thread Starter
Dang man, I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you, my CMDP's went in with no hitch and am happy with them. I hope you get it figured out!
However, the main thing to remember is Fred's tune works fine after adjustment, so you're right in thinking it's probably the tune. Has Doug seen the logs? What has he said?
However, the main thing to remember is Fred's tune works fine after adjustment, so you're right in thinking it's probably the tune. Has Doug seen the logs? What has he said?
8/2/07, 06:41 AM
#35
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Scott,
I get some of my work done at Ted Britts - they just did my 4.10's - and I had Dan (Green team) do the work. another good Mustang guy for tuning is Wheat at Springfield Motorsport. I'm like you, an old carb guy and the age of technology makes things a lot easier. Although sometimes it's hard to catch up.....
I get some of my work done at Ted Britts - they just did my 4.10's - and I had Dan (Green team) do the work. another good Mustang guy for tuning is Wheat at Springfield Motorsport. I'm like you, an old carb guy and the age of technology makes things a lot easier. Although sometimes it's hard to catch up.....
8/2/07, 02:16 PM
#36
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I'm more than happy with it.Here's my post.
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showpo...2&postcount=17
8/2/07, 02:19 PM
#37
I wasn't complaining about Dougs service. I'm more than happy with it.
Here's my post.
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showpo...2&postcount=17
I'm more than happy with it.Here's my post.
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showpo...2&postcount=17
8/2/07, 02:26 PM
#39
GT Member
Thread Starter
Scott,
I get some of my work done at Ted Britts - they just did my 4.10's - and I had Dan (Green team) do the work. another good Mustang guy for tuning is Wheat at Springfield Motorsport. I'm like you, an old carb guy and the age of technology makes things a lot easier. Although sometimes it's hard to catch up.....
I get some of my work done at Ted Britts - they just did my 4.10's - and I had Dan (Green team) do the work. another good Mustang guy for tuning is Wheat at Springfield Motorsport. I'm like you, an old carb guy and the age of technology makes things a lot easier. Although sometimes it's hard to catch up.....
I tried Excessive MS for my tune and chris is not a good S197 Automatic tuner, but he did a fantasic job with my gears, (FFRP 4.10 for 450 installed) he is a good mechanic not a tuner.
8/21/07, 01:15 PM
#40
GT Member
Thread Starter
Update ----
This year I lost my Job and was unemployed for almost 5 months so my finances took a serious hit, but I got a Job in April and finally Sold my Albatross House that was killing me. (old and not maintenance free).
I finally was able to save 200 bucks and add another mod to my car, CMDP and a Tune From Doug.
Well as some of you know I have been having some issues with Doug’s tune and the Charge Motion Delete Plates. Well I was fed up with buying tune after tune with no resolution from Fred or Doug (I own both of their tunes) they took a week or more to respond to email and Doug had no phone number listed.
So some guys on another forum all got together and bought a tune for me to try from Justin at VMP Tuning, Thanks “Don_W” well all I can say is that his tune was almost there. Last week I was able to head off to the track and test the tunes. That day I received an email from Doug
I tried to heat up the DR's but I could not even get them to spin felt like the TC was on.
9.47 @ 74.32 60' 2.468 ( no wheel spin just that slow off the line)
I tried VMP tune I could spin the DR's a little
9.150 @ 78.13 60 2.198 ( no wheel spin again it bogged down)
I sat for a while thinking I had an idea, I Increased the timing from 0-2000 +2 Deg and from 2000-4000 +1 Deg.
8.7 @ 82.29 60' 2.215 This time it felt better and was spinning the DR the whole 60'
I let it cool down and gave it a bit more timing from 0-2000 +3 and 2000-4000 +2 and ran again. 8.585 @ 82.34 60' 2.059 at 6:38pm 95+ deg
I did not hear any Pinging so I think it's still safe to go up a bit more so I went +4 and +3.
Then I ran a 8.654 @ 82.31 60' 2.135 spun the DR's 7:01pm
at 7:35pm still over 94+ deg an humid, and ran a 8.557 @ 82.34 60' 2.058
Over all not bad but equaling my times before the CMDP and tunes. But the Temps were more in to low 80's then.
June 6th 2007 6:56pm 8.565 @ 81.81 60' 2.042
June 6th 2007 6:40pm 8.599 @ 81.78 60' 2.077
I sent Justin my data logs and here was his response...
Justin is responsive and is helping me get through this issue in a professional manner.
I don't know about some of you but that makes him a winner in my book
Furthermore I purchased Dougs Tune on July 11 and here we are in August 21 and I still have not received a Config file to datalog the car. VMP took 2 days. It still is not resolved but I think it will be soon.
Now Please don't get me wrong, this thread is not a "Whos tune is better" thread because I Liked Dougs Shift Schedule for Autos, and Freds was a good street tune, justin's is right in between Fred and Doug. I am Complaining about the Customer Service I have received. maybe it's the fact I just bought a tune and not a complete setup, I should not matter because I still am a customer... Right?
Rant off....
I finally was able to save 200 bucks and add another mod to my car, CMDP and a Tune From Doug.
Well as some of you know I have been having some issues with Doug’s tune and the Charge Motion Delete Plates. Well I was fed up with buying tune after tune with no resolution from Fred or Doug (I own both of their tunes) they took a week or more to respond to email and Doug had no phone number listed.
So some guys on another forum all got together and bought a tune for me to try from Justin at VMP Tuning, Thanks “Don_W” well all I can say is that his tune was almost there. Last week I was able to head off to the track and test the tunes. That day I received an email from Doug
quote:
Wow, I’ve never seen a loss like that. These are the exact same changes I make on all of my mail order tunes and even start from on my dynotunes. Here’s a final tune but if this doesn’t help then I’m going to have to say to look at other things.
Thanks, Doug
Well I tried this tune at the track and here was the results. it was 98 Deg and humid. Wow, I’ve never seen a loss like that. These are the exact same changes I make on all of my mail order tunes and even start from on my dynotunes. Here’s a final tune but if this doesn’t help then I’m going to have to say to look at other things.
Thanks, Doug
I tried to heat up the DR's but I could not even get them to spin felt like the TC was on.
9.47 @ 74.32 60' 2.468 ( no wheel spin just that slow off the line)
I tried VMP tune I could spin the DR's a little
9.150 @ 78.13 60 2.198 ( no wheel spin again it bogged down)
I sat for a while thinking I had an idea, I Increased the timing from 0-2000 +2 Deg and from 2000-4000 +1 Deg.
8.7 @ 82.29 60' 2.215 This time it felt better and was spinning the DR the whole 60'
I let it cool down and gave it a bit more timing from 0-2000 +3 and 2000-4000 +2 and ran again. 8.585 @ 82.34 60' 2.059 at 6:38pm 95+ deg
I did not hear any Pinging so I think it's still safe to go up a bit more so I went +4 and +3.
Then I ran a 8.654 @ 82.31 60' 2.135 spun the DR's 7:01pm
at 7:35pm still over 94+ deg an humid, and ran a 8.557 @ 82.34 60' 2.058
Over all not bad but equaling my times before the CMDP and tunes. But the Temps were more in to low 80's then.
June 6th 2007 6:56pm 8.565 @ 81.81 60' 2.042
June 6th 2007 6:40pm 8.599 @ 81.78 60' 2.077
I sent Justin my data logs and here was his response...
quote:
Scott your car does not have nearly the timing it should, datalog with this config file for me, if the config is bad let me know and i'll make another
Justin Starkey
VMP Tuning Inc
Owner/Tuner
Ford and GM Custom Tuning
Mobile DynoJet 224xLC
www.VMPTuning.com
He sent me another config to get some more data to him. This was the level of support I WAS expecting from Doug; from what I have read on this and other forums. Also I tried to increase the Timing on Dougs tune and it did not change does he lock the tunes? I can't change it on the SCT unit? Scott your car does not have nearly the timing it should, datalog with this config file for me, if the config is bad let me know and i'll make another
Justin Starkey
VMP Tuning Inc
Owner/Tuner
Ford and GM Custom Tuning
Mobile DynoJet 224xLC
www.VMPTuning.com
Justin is responsive and is helping me get through this issue in a professional manner.
I don't know about some of you but that makes him a winner in my book
Furthermore I purchased Dougs Tune on July 11 and here we are in August 21 and I still have not received a Config file to datalog the car. VMP took 2 days. It still is not resolved but I think it will be soon.
Now Please don't get me wrong, this thread is not a "Whos tune is better" thread because I Liked Dougs Shift Schedule for Autos, and Freds was a good street tune, justin's is right in between Fred and Doug. I am Complaining about the Customer Service I have received. maybe it's the fact I just bought a tune and not a complete setup, I should not matter because I still am a customer... Right?
Rant off....