j-stang

Hey Jerrod -

Check out my mustang page (below is a link) for some number comparisons. I had the JLT and I am currently running the C&L. I have a hard time telling people which one I like better. I definitely like the looks of the C&L better; however, the JLT looks pretty killer with a custom paint, i.e. flames, etc. (see JLT's website).

Both in my Dyno runs pretty much ran the same numbers. As far as cost goes -the JLT is a great bargin at $150 plus a custom tune around $100. The C&L could be purchased around $300 and the tunes are free to download on Diablo's website (which is nice because Diablo has worked with C&L).

As far as the air passing through the C&L intake and making it hot. I am very skeptical about that. The air is traveling so fast through the intake pipe that I'm sure it would be very comparable in temp as other cai's.

Cheers_Jay

Fastback65

Hey Jay,
Why did you switch from one the the other?
Also, I'm having a little bit of trouble making out the numbers on you dyno's, but I did take a look. I agree, I also doubt any trouble with the air being heated because ff the metal. Any warranty issue with CAI and Flashing your cars hardware?

Mongoose

Alunimum is one of the best known heat conducters. That is why its used in AC units in and out of the house Plastics and rubber are not good conductors. I have a JTL but if the C&L were plastic Iwould lean in that direction.

Fastback65

Granted metal is aluminum is good counductor of heat. I would like to see the actual dyno numbers from each of these. I could'nt really make out the number on j-stangs slips (he has like 10 differents posted there). If the performance numbers are withina 1 or 2 hp of each other I say go for the one you want.

MrDrezzUp

<putting on flame suit>

I do not put too much faith into the "need a custom tune VS. a proper canned tune". The key to any good tune is the MAF Transfer function. If this is set up properly the MAF will correctly read the mass of incoming air. The SCT Tuning Guide specifically states if your tuner is telling you need seperate tunes for time of the year (temperature differences) and elevation...you are pretty much being scammed.

It would be very beneficial to see the .xtr files of these "custom" tunes to see how they differ from properly designed canned tunes. I would also like to do some thorough logging to see the exact differences between the tunes.

Achieving reliable and repeatable dyno results is not an easy task. Kenne Bell has a good write up on what to do and it is somewhat involved. I mention this as I suspect much of the "differences" between tunes is related to dyno. Especially when then numbers are a few HP.

</putting on flame suit>

MrDrezzUp

Did you hear anything in particular as to what had to be adjusted differently between the two cars?

ski

Someone either on this forum or on another Mustang forum did a dyno comparison with both the JLT and C&L CAI's, and the results were so close as to be almost identical.

Also, I did some data logging on my Predator with a C&L CAI, and the IAT(inlet air temperature) is almost ambient(78 F vs. 76 F ambient). It does warm up by only a few degrees when idling at a stop, but then quickly cools down once the car is under way again.
Plus, the intake pipe is just warm to the touch after a hard run.
Finally, a high internal air velocity of 17 fps at idle(750 rpm) means that the intake air does not have sufficient contact time with the pipe wall to extract any heat, especially when considering that hard runs are normally made from 2000-6500 rpm(45-136 fps internal air velocity). In fact, a contact thermometer showed that the 2 runners on the stock intake manifold nearest the firewall are actually HOTTER than the C&L CAI by 10-15 F.

So not to worry about losing hp due to the C&L CAI heating up the inlet air. It just doesn't happen.

38special

What he said.

If I park my car, the CAI heats up when the egine heat escapes into the compartment area. When the car is running, you can easily touch it and if It were moving, I'm sure it would be cool to the touch.

SC67Stang

No I did not. My car was done first and was great after the first run so no changes from what the tuner had set as standard. I think he started with a tune from a Lightening because the 90MM air inlet of the JLT.
The second car had to be adjusted at least 3 times to get it right. He did start with the same settings as mine on that car. I think he played with the timing and A/F mix and the idle speed. He did change some other things, but since my car was done, I didn't pay to much attention.

SC67Stang

Here are my dyno graphs from the car with just the Can SCT tune without the JLT and SCT custom tune with JLT.

Fastback65

Those were the answers I was looking for... thanks guys

j-stang

Hey Jerrod - sorry for the delay in the reply.

I'll try to sum up the Dyno sheets on my mustang page (I know there is a lot of info)

First, I switched CAIs because my JLT deformed at the MAF sensor mount due to the heat; consequently, I purchased the C&L and have been very happy with their product. Note: Jay from JLT has already came up with a fix to the deforming issue; therefore, this should not be a problem for others.

Second, here is the info from my page...

"Here is a dyno comparison of the JLT and the C&L. The JLT (red line) max horsepower is 273 with air fuel ratio around 12.7. The C&L (blue line) max horsepower is 273.3 with air fuel ratio around 13.1. Overall, I think they both are very close to one another. It would be hard to determine which intake shows the best increase in performance."

[attachmentid=26286]

Please note: I know people could argue that the pulls were on different days and different temperature and humidity, but I think the days had very close variables. The only thing I think would change some number is A/F ratio changes and timing.
Cheers_Jay

SC67Stang

These were both done on a Mustang Dyno about 20 min. apart. just enough time to put the intake on and let the car cool down a bit. It was 90 degrees and 75% hum.
Here is the JLT run.

MrDrezzUp

I guess the moral of this story is that you really can't go wrong with either the JLT or the C&L. Props to both!

Fastback65

Thanks for the response j-stang. Look like the C&L is gettin my money

Moondog

Take a look at the "Post your gains" string - great data - not sure its shows a clear "winner" wrt CAI systems. Seems the 300 rwhp is the benchmark. Can't wait to see N.A. combos for 325 rwhp, 350 rwhp.......

tx2005gt

recieved my cnl & sct 2 from alternative auto today. Install was a breeze & the perfomance is all what is is hyped to be.

2005 Black GT

Thanks for all your input guys, but what really made my choice was my phone call to JDM today. If I brought them the JLT, it would $425 for an Xcal, then another $475 for a dyno tune session. So just for a CAI and tune that route would cost around $1100. My budget is low after the Double-Din Eclipse Navigation and new wheels/tires. It looks like I am gonna be going with the Xcal2 and C&L from Alternative Auto. Thats around $750 I think.

05redfiregt

Alternative Auto is the way to go. Install is super simple, tune is unreal. I have posted about it before. Seat of the pants feel is awesome, good long chirp going into second, grin still has not left my face. Only way to go for an auto.

bigaloz

I was seriously considering the Alternative tune, and selling my predator, until I talked to a few people and they said that the transmission could be damaged from increasing the shift pressures to make it bang gears. Has anyone heard of this?