im happy where i am in terms of power. but you get used to it. and when you get used to it you want more. even more of a reason to think things through before you start getting addicted to mods. Chevykiller is 100% right. ive got my motor build on progress now because i do want more power but im trying to maintain DD reliability as well.

next is a cage :-(

 

You have no idea how hard I am fighting the urge to cage this thing.

 

as am i i dont want a cage. if i do eventually go with one its gotta be custom built with removable door bars so i dont have to use them unless racing and i dotn want it to be seen from outside the car if possible

 

Removable door bars is a given as far as I'm concerned. It's the cross bar behind the shoulders on the main hoop that bothers me. It basically eliminates using the backseat, and limits the front seat travel and recline. But the real reason for not having the roll bar is that it's keeping me from pushing this thing to the edge. I was without my car for many months already, and I don't want to do that again soon. So, for the time being, I'll have to be happy with a low 11-sec daily driver.

 

i dont know why im concerned with the back seats. htey may have been used 5 times in 2 years perhaps? it shouldnt be an issue but it is. too bad that bar cant be removable.

 

I don't use mine much either. But sometimes the wife and I take the grandkids somewhere, and they could crawl in and out OK, but I don't want them wacking their heads. Also, I have on occasion had an adult back there, and getting in and out would be a biotch.

 

Do you drive it like you stole it? Was it not your car that was out of commision (body shop) for a very long time?
I cannot afford to do mine twice so it has to be correct, (built) the first time. Then I can dance.

 

My $.02...

Anyone thinking they can build a 9 sec 4000 lb car without some SERIOUS hardware is . No offense intended, and I am certain the reason Chevykiller started this thread was to educate others. Learn from his mistakes!

Congrats on the build; can't wait for pics and vids!

 

I make no assumptions anyone is as dumb as me...lol

Of course my goals were crazy from the get go but the main reason I started this thread was not really for people thinking of ridiculous 9's, but for the people who are getting consumed with the mod big. It appears to be many and I have just seen so much talk about rebuilds lately when in my opinion - the majority of the guys considering them don't need one.

As Ron said, he has the itch to go faster so he knows he's gone as far as he can go before a rebuild now becomes mandatory. That's fine and just cause to move forward but I am more concerned for the guys who are talking about and being talked into a rebuild for the purpose of 'turning up their kits'.

I have read countless posts on several sites where many guys just want to turn their KB or saleen, or vortech, or whatever up and pulley down to make some more power and be in the 450 reliably range. They are constantly told if they want to run 10 psi or 12 psi, etc. etc. - you'll need a rebuild or take care of your bottom end. These guys seem to be the majority and a rebuild is not only not neccessary, it is the 'opening of the floodgates' so to speak that unless that's the direction you are committed to go, maybe more than you're bargaining for.

Just as Mr. Tillman pointed out, the tune is everything! We all know now that no motor is created equal in these beasts. It is a fact that a certain stock motor might run great at 500 rwhp and another one will let go at 425 rwhp. However, these motors do not just 'let go' despite what anyone has told you. There are ALWAYS warning signs and steps in the tuning process that a good tuner will be able to establish and catch before dissaster. Yes, there are the rare instances like Don_w where a faulty product and freak occurrence can happen but you should not take those rare instances as a common danger cause they are not. It is the same as worrying about someone running a redlight and t-boning your car. It happens, but just a freak oocurence and 'crap happens' scenario. No, what you do is count on the facts and current knowledge out for the vehicles. With this in mind, there is no reason a good tuner can't find your maximum power range safely on the stock motor without it blowing up.

Many guys ask their tuners, "what kind of power can you get" or "what is the most power you have gotten out of this kit?" etc, etc.

What few ask and is what is REALLY IMPORTANT, is to ask "how do you get the power out of the car?" and "what curves do you monitor when turning it up and how do you tune it safely" and "how exactly do you add and monitor timing safely?"

These are the kinds of questions that if you get a good answer to - then you're in good hands.

 

After riding with Ron, I have to say Yes, he drives it like he stole it. The wreck though wasnt due to his driving as it was due to tires and slick roads.

 

There is something missing in this discussion that I want to address. I have read more times than I can count where someone says their "goal" is some arbitrary RWHP number (like 450, 500, 600, etc.). My response to that is that a RWHP number is not really a "goal" by itself.

The question people need to answer is "why do you want more power"? Your answer to that question will help you determine the best way to proceed.

For example, if you're looking for a dyno queen, then by all means spend the money in areas that produce horsepower. A built bottom end and a lot of boost or juice, can produce big dyno numbers. And you don't need to worry about the rest of the drivetrain, suspension or traction... because it's only a dyno queen, not a driver.

On the other hand, if you're looking for dragstrip performance, then some of that money is better spent on other areas besides hp. Suspension, traction, weight (and weight transfer), etc. all contribute to low ETs. You can get to 11.50 without a boatload of RWHP. Once you go below 11.50, then to be legal you need to start adding things like roll bars, aftermarket axles, SFI bellhousing/flexplate, etc. I only have about 450-460 rwhp, and I'm knocking on the door to the 10s right now. Why? Because I've invested in the supporting mods to plant the power I have. And it's not a stretch for 450-ish at the wheels on the stock bottom end. There are plenty of guys who are doing it. So, I agree with Mark 100% when he said, "A good tuner, suspension & fuel mods and rubber with your FI kit should be all you need to have a nice reliable ride that can hit 11's."

Finally, if it is just a street car, you will probably become tractionally challenged once you get above 450-500 at the wheels anyway, so what is the point of going higher? Unless of course, it goes back to the dyno numbers again.

And as Mark inferred, you may be able to build a "bullet proof" bottom end, and really ramp up the power, but you then have to figure out what the next weakest link is... tranny? driveshaft? rear end? Building a strong motor just for the sake of "more power" will open up a lot more areas where money needs to be spent.

You really need to determine what your goal for the car is... based on how you plan on driving it... and of course, how much you are willing to spend to maintain it. Things will break... guaranteed.

Just my 2 cents...


.

 

i definately drive it liek i stole it. maybe harder. more like i smuggled illegal drigs over the border and am now being chased by the federales haha.

my accident was due to semi bald tires and slick roads when it was raining. it was not raining when i too kthe car out but was on my way home. i was not stupid enough to take it out in the rain with bald tires (**** burnouts) but i wasnt smart enough to check the weather either. considering that if idid nothing i would have hit the concrete divider head on, the fact that i was able to turn the car and minimize the damage was a good thing.

the car is still in the shop yes but it is because they have put quite a few things in the car for me on the insurance's dime, not mine not to mention getting the car completely repainted and the stripes are painted now instead of tape. we have been waiting on Saleen for several weeks now for the final piece of the puzzle as all that is left are the side skirts. this project should have been completed in january but here we are today. i dont regret it either because they took their time, did the right things, and helped me out with a TON of stuff so they can take their time. im waiting out the winter anyway and it took temptation away from driving it in the winter with the snow/salt ect.

 

I drive mine hard with 30 k miles 461 rwhp. It's the tune that makes them last (tuned by me with sct prp).

 

These are worth reading again!

 

Some very good information here, personally I would choose to build the bottom end to feel comfortable at 450-500 with forged internals. I wouldn't feel that way on the stock bottom end with all the stories i've read about the rods giving out in them.

 

I will vouch for Adam. Great guy and really took the time to work with me. I love my Whipple!

 

I would almost garuntee adam can get you were you want on the stock motor at 10 psi on the whipple with no issues. Just like Don pointed out, forget about rwhp dyno numbers and stick to the FI. At 10 psi, I wouldn't even consider a rebuild but if you plan on going over that, then I would do it.

 

I will stick my $.02 in as I have not read anyone doing upgrades based on my decisions. I wanted one last toy and I thought long and hard about which way to go with my Stang. I did not want to build a race car as I have had those in the past. What I wanted was a car I could take to the track and have fun running 11.49 or higher, as I don’t want to put in a bar. Drive anywhere I wanted without worrying about it breaking because it was on the ragged edge, turn corners when I wanted to and just have a fun car. I am building a forged bottom end with a twin turbo setup and I think it will give me everything I am looking for. I agree with the others you have to decide what you want and build accordingly within your budget.



Earl

 

It appears that most of this information is addressed to the people who are talking about ripping down the engine just for the sake of putting in forged internals. I would like to ask a tangential question. If you were going to rebuild the engine anyhow ( my stock 95 Cobra has 162K on it and is starting to leak a little oil from a lot of places and I like to drive it like I stole it ), would you recommend going forged since it will be apart already?

 

Yes.