called paul's high performance to see how much to in stall supercharger .told me they will not install because bottomends are to weak to handle the power. this not good!

 

What exactly did they say?

Might want to call them back and ask why.

 

I think they're full of it. If that's the case, then why are the tuners like Roush and Saleen doing this? I know they aren't reinforcing the bottom end.
Besides, it's all relative to RPMs... you're not spinning it up any higher. This isn't a track application. It's a street application. I wouldn't try to spin one of these engine's up to 9000 RPMs without building the bottom end. I think the person who said that to you was out of context.
Anyways... the only issue is the pistons, and they're still ok at 8 psi or less. I wouldn't put any weight into what they told you.

 

Pauls High Performance is all about RACE CARS. In their eyes if you can't run over 8+ lbs of boost they aren't going to bother. Nor should they for what they want to do to them.

 

Are the piston rods still cast? That would be a big problem wouldn't it?

 

again, you're ok up to 8 psi.... if you go over, you're going to want to get forged aluminum (preferred) h-beam rods, balanced, forged aluminum pistons, and balance, this way you shave a lot of rotating mass, then if these blocks don't have a 4 bolt main cap, convert if possible and put a stud girldle on. Then feel free to increase your fuel shut off to 8000 rpms.
this isn't cheap, and it's not feasible for a daily driver.... if you're building a race car.... game on.

To answer your question (hopefully) John, it's not the material of the rods that is the issue.... the pistons need to be able to handle the boost. The problem with hyperutectic pistons is that the material isn't strong enough for the pressure.... you'll blow a hole in them, or specifically with these pistons, you'll break the top ring land becuase there just isn't enough material there that is strong enough. So, you fix that problem by getting forged aluminum. The only problem with the cast rods is that they aren't strong enough to handle the spin... you'll brake the con-rod at the cap or the bolt because the lateral force from high rpms will exceed it's ability to hold together. So if you get a forged alluminum H-beam rod, which is a more structually sound design and a lighter weight, you can safely increase your RPMs. A cast rod is just fine for an 8 psi blower.... the issue with that is that you're not increasing your engine speed.

 

If you care to look up what happened to all those "tuner" cars at SEMA you will see that 90% of the them detonated in the parking lot while they were doing donuts.

As a testemant that the S/C on the GT's still needs to be refined and dialed in for the amount of boost the stock internals can take.

 

detonation is caused by the timing and fuel stability..... like you said Robert, I'm sure once they dial in the PCM on these things, they'll be good to go. If they blew the engine because a ring land gave way, that may be a different story.... may not have been caused by detonation, but by too much boost.
hopefully they'll have it all figured out by the time I can aford one.

 

Yeah, but I was saying detonated because the motor straight up busted. Not that they were getting a lot of pinging. They failed for various reasons from rings giving way to the lower journals (Main crank bearings) cracking, wrist pins, bent rods. I think if I recall I heard there was at least 4 seperate (probable causes) to the engine failures they found on the SEMA cars. All pretty much pointing to the weak bottom end. I heard some of the fixes were different piston heads (stock have long skirts ???) better rods, and replacing the lower rod bearings. And the something about the ring design on the (hypoelectic???? spelling) piston used in the GT not being strong enough to handle boost from a supercharger.

 

that all makes sense.... and by the way, it's hyperutectic, or hyperute for short.... it's the way it's formed and it's a funky aluminum alloy... it's stronger than cast but not as good as forged. On the stock hyperute pistons, the compression ring land is very close to the top, and it will give with too much boost.
I wonder which engines blew.... if Saleen and Roush blew, I'd be concerned.... but if it were some of the other guys, than it's conceivable that they don't have the experience or the resources for R & D to tune this motor with a blower.... it may be part of the learing process for them.. and they may be learning by trial and error... where as the larger companies can invest more time and money into engineering the whole thing, and apply there own proven race technology to get the job done correctly.
I'm sure the Roush wasn't outside doing doughnuts, because they probably knew better than to wrap it up that high until they had it perfected.... but they know that the general public is stupid and will do stupid things. So they're not going to sell a car with a blower unless they know it can be abused and not blow the motor they'll have to out of pocket to replace. So, when Saleen starts selling a blower and computer kit (which I believe they have a screw type that hit the market yesterday or this last week) I'll get in line for that setup.

 

I could be wrong but I thought it was both the Roush and Saleen that blew at SEMA

 

It's my understanding that most of these companies are just now getting around to understanding and tapping into the computer with tuning to make them work properly without damage to the engine.

 

That is obviously very bad news for the members planning on getting a s/c. Could you provide some specifics, especially who specifically blew-up and what your source of information is? Thanks,

The Boss Hog

 

I've heard the rumors about the blown engines at SEMA, and I've heard that they were false.

I don't trust the internet anymore (grin)

 

So, do they install blowers on 2004 and earlier Mustangs? If so, then all it indicates to me is that *they* don't have the resources to figure out the new electronics of the 2005's. Others do.

The bottom end is the same as before. There is a different piston design (and even that isn't too clear just how different), but the piston material is the same as used in previous years. There is some speculation that it may even be a more durable engine than last year's.

It'll take some of the big boys to fully crack the new control system, but it seems like they are pretty much there (e.g. SCT). Well boosted cars will follow. That said, I'm not going to throw one on my car for another 2 years or so. Especially given how well these beasts are doing with pretty minor bolt-ons and a good tune.

 

The SEMA rumors are false. The high profile cars were left in the booths all week long. These cars were trailered to and from the show. If you were there at the show, you would know there was not enough room in the parking lots. Most of the people were taking buses and shuttles to get there because there was no space to park. Also SEMA would of never tolerated this at the show. Manufacturers have too much money and time in these cars to act so innapropriately. At the time of the show most of the products were still protypes. There is no way this would of ever happened.

 

Why would Ford Racing release a supercharger for the 05 if they did not feel it could handle it?

 

I concur, my common sense always told me those cars didn't even run, never mind doing donuts in the parking lot.

 

but come on now, you know the saleen has those wheels that fold under so the car can fly like the delorean from back to the future??? i saw that out in the parking lot they didnt have the timing right on the flux capacitor. they only had 1.01 jigawatts of power and im sure if the older cars can handle approprate boost so can the new ones. and the tuners have already solved the computer issues.

 

I thought i saw pictures of the Roush, Saleen, (wasn't there another one?) out there on the performance course? Did they just baby them or what?