Auto vs Stick, which one is stronger
#21
Legacy TMS Member
what are the drivetrain losses between the 5R55S and the TR-3650?
The guy on our Crown Vic boards that had a 05 GT w/ the TR-3650 ran 13.47 @ 103.82 with 247 miles on the odo, and 13.28 @ 101.72 about 9000 miles later (bone stock).
I can't imagine the automatic being significantly more durable than the manual, so it rolls down to preference. I'd steer away from a manual for stop and go city driving (like New York City, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc...) but for a weekend cruiser or a fun car, go with the manual.
The guy on our Crown Vic boards that had a 05 GT w/ the TR-3650 ran 13.47 @ 103.82 with 247 miles on the odo, and 13.28 @ 101.72 about 9000 miles later (bone stock).
I can't imagine the automatic being significantly more durable than the manual, so it rolls down to preference. I'd steer away from a manual for stop and go city driving (like New York City, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc...) but for a weekend cruiser or a fun car, go with the manual.
#22
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what are the drivetrain losses between the 5R55S and the TR-3650?
The guy on our Crown Vic boards that had a 05 GT w/ the TR-3650 ran 13.47 @ 103.82 with 247 miles on the odo, and 13.28 @ 101.72 about 9000 miles later (bone stock).
I can't imagine the automatic being significantly more durable than the manual, so it rolls down to preference. I'd steer away from a manual for stop and go city driving (like New York City, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc...) but for a weekend cruiser or a fun car, go with the manual.
The guy on our Crown Vic boards that had a 05 GT w/ the TR-3650 ran 13.47 @ 103.82 with 247 miles on the odo, and 13.28 @ 101.72 about 9000 miles later (bone stock).
I can't imagine the automatic being significantly more durable than the manual, so it rolls down to preference. I'd steer away from a manual for stop and go city driving (like New York City, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc...) but for a weekend cruiser or a fun car, go with the manual.
the 5R55S may not be more durable then the TR-3650, but its a hell of alot better then the 4RW70 from what I read.
#23
I seem to remember that the old hemi muscle cars often came with auto trans because it held up better than the manual gearbox. True or not? However, I don't know if there is any advantage one way or the other with the modern transmissions.
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#27
Legacy TMS Member
Check the current rebates for automatic 2006 GTs... I believe there is $2500 cash back, PLUS you can use the X-Plan PIN for [(0.996*Invoice) + $75].
My dad always said, a sports car should always have a manual transmission.
I do not like the gearing on the 4R70W. The 1-2 kills my 1/4 ET because I'm sitting there well below peak torque at the start of 2nd gear.
My dad always said, a sports car should always have a manual transmission.
I do not like the gearing on the 4R70W. The 1-2 kills my 1/4 ET because I'm sitting there well below peak torque at the start of 2nd gear.
#28
#29
Legacy TMS Member
Tuning with a manual should also be much easier:
no more having to deal with the gosh darn shift schedules, shift line pressures, and torque converter schedules.
It looks like the 5R55S gives better gearing for the lower gears: 1st gear shift at 6500 RPM puts it into about 4600 RPM for 2nd gear with a ~200 RPM drop into 3rd gear after a WOT 2-3 shift. However, since stock 05-up GTs are crossing the line at 100+ mph, the 5R55 would have to do a 3-4 shift right before the line, which can slow down the car just a tad.
On the TR-3650, the spreadsheet shows a WOT 6500 RPM 1-2 shift putting it at around 3800 RPM in 2nd gear, but the way I understand it is with clutch slip and other real world factors, it isn't anywhere below 4000-4300 RPM by the time it gets into 2nd gear. However, 3rd gear should allow up to about 110 mph so a bone stock GT won't have to shift right before the line (which should count for something).
no more having to deal with the gosh darn shift schedules, shift line pressures, and torque converter schedules.
It looks like the 5R55S gives better gearing for the lower gears: 1st gear shift at 6500 RPM puts it into about 4600 RPM for 2nd gear with a ~200 RPM drop into 3rd gear after a WOT 2-3 shift. However, since stock 05-up GTs are crossing the line at 100+ mph, the 5R55 would have to do a 3-4 shift right before the line, which can slow down the car just a tad.
On the TR-3650, the spreadsheet shows a WOT 6500 RPM 1-2 shift putting it at around 3800 RPM in 2nd gear, but the way I understand it is with clutch slip and other real world factors, it isn't anywhere below 4000-4300 RPM by the time it gets into 2nd gear. However, 3rd gear should allow up to about 110 mph so a bone stock GT won't have to shift right before the line (which should count for something).
#31
I'd drive both of them before making a decision, but the throttle response without a tune is not great, so the auto may feel a bit more sluggish. There is no comparison between the 5R55S and the 4R70W gear spacing. The 5R55S is an impressive trans and has held up better to performance mods than was initially expected. I've owned a lot a cars, and prefer auto cars, but I wouldn't let a deal sway me from a stick if that is what I had my heart set on.
#33
My wife drives our car every day and it's super consistent at the track. I've never missed a shift either. Also everyone needs to remember that while the B&M shifter will be a nice cosmetic upgrade that's all it's gonna be. It's not a C-4 tranny in these cars and it will not shift on demand with the new shifter. It's computer controlled and not a manual valve body type deal and never will be. That being said we have total control over WOT shift points and with a good tranny tune the 5R55S bangs through the gears. My car has only a torque converter and it's been bullet proof to this point with lots of 1/4 mile passes. It's all about personal preference. Road course or windy road driving is manual terrirtory blistering the 1320' strip auto's rule!
Oh by the way, 11.30's and 450+ rwhp on an all but stock trans save for the torque converter is dam impressive. Since Whipple won't sell their HO kit to auto trans owners I'm going to have to look at the Saleen. Lucky for me JDM is only a half hours drive away.
#34
I think autos are maligned as not performance. If I had to do it over again, I would go auto, swap out to 3.73 and put in the new torq converter to make it rock. If you read MM & FF or 5.0 most test with a auto is faster than a 5 speed. I know I am a sorry shifter, so a decent auto could take me early on, till my 4.10's and poweradders kick in.
#35
well gearing is one thing, but if the automatic can shift it quicker, then it could make the difference. With these new trannies, they shift so **** good, its hard to believe that with a tune, there not beating the manuals out.
#36
Legacy TMS Member
They have to shift an extra gear before they cross the 1/4 mile line, and the 1-2 shift comes very quickly due to the 1st and 2nd gear ratios. These account for some extra time spent shifting.
#37
I'd use that price to shop other dealers for a stick and save an additional $800.00 over the auto equipped stang. Also, I didn't see the 3:55 gear option in your specs.....does the auto come with the 3:31 and the stick the 3:55 in '06? Just my opinion - but you are going to have this car a long time and I'd get what I wanted now and not regret it later. Personally, a stick is the only way to go with the V8.
Good luck!
Good luck!
#38
Legacy TMS Member
... my friend dumped his rice dream 350Z and went Stang also. Like me he was trying to get an 06 under the 0% finance however our friend at the local dealer could not locate a 5spd from central FL south. He ended up getting an auto and so far he loves it. He loves driving stick but his car is his everyday driver and he is on the phone alot for work so it works well for him (plus according to him he loves "Just Punching it and it goes"). He is not sorry he ended up with an auto (he may if he desides to take it some road courses).
I was looking for a manual vert which unfortunately most dealers don't order. I had one sales manager state that 90% of his GT coupe sales were manuals and only 5% of his convertible sales were also manuals. So I ordered a '07 and then heard that the '07s were beefed up through the entire product line for the GT500s. It was cheaper to just tool one frame and 2 bodies (vert & coupe) rather than one for each of the three engines, 4.0, 4.6, and 5.4.
BB
Not as lean, not as mean, but still a Marine.
#39
My wife drives our car every day and it's super consistent at the track. I've never missed a shift either. Also everyone needs to remember that while the B&M shifter will be a nice cosmetic upgrade that's all it's gonna be. It's not a C-4 tranny in these cars and it will not shift on demand with the new shifter. It's computer controlled and not a manual valve body type deal and never will be. That being said we have total control over WOT shift points and with a good tranny tune the 5R55S bangs through the gears. My car has only a torque converter and it's been bullet proof to this point with lots of 1/4 mile passes. It's all about personal preference. Road course or windy road driving is manual terrirtory blistering the 1320' strip auto's rule!
#40
Regarding the Whipple H.O. kit for automatics, I contacted Whipple a few weeks back, they told me they do not have a tune from Ford for the automatics so until they do they only offer it for the manual transmission.