Any new Cams
1/29/06, 06:12 PM
#41
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Originally posted by spyder7724@January 27, 2006, 8:51 PM
doug
are the new springs a beehive or standard spring? i know SHM is selling a beehive spring that i'm sure they don't make. i'm wondering if it is a comp cams spring?or if not would it work with the new cams? i sure hope comp makes them for the 3V. i would consider tearing in and installing in mine before the NMRA opener if they were availible by feb.
doug
are the new springs a beehive or standard spring? i know SHM is selling a beehive spring that i'm sure they don't make. i'm wondering if it is a comp cams spring?or if not would it work with the new cams? i sure hope comp makes them for the 3V. i would consider tearing in and installing in mine before the NMRA opener if they were availible by feb.
According to my guy at Comp the springs are the same as the 2V, just there are 24 of them now instead of 16. They do have them in stock and priced so if you need a quote just let me know on that end. If you get the Comp springs you'll also need the retainers, I can sell it all to you.
Thanks Doug
1/29/06, 07:54 PM
#43
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awesome! thanks doug. i will order with the cams. do you know of any place that is selling a stock head casting? i want to have a set of heads already complete so i can just remove and replace heads. i also plan on having the new set shaved down a bit and use a little bit thinner gasket to increase the compression a little. i figured if i can get close to 11.0:1 with the new cams and springs it should be worth 30hp or so+ 500-1000 more rpms.
2/15/06, 02:39 PM
#45
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(169stang @ January 27, 2006, 2:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
There's going to be a bit of a difference in price between the BBR (regrinds) and the new ones (solids).
[/b][/quote]
what's a regrind?
There's going to be a bit of a difference in price between the BBR (regrinds) and the new ones (solids).
[/b][/quote]
what's a regrind?
2/15/06, 03:44 PM
#46
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nonsensez9 @ February 15, 2006, 4:42 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
what's a regrind?
[/b][/quote]
They take a stock Ford cam and grind down the base circle to make a new profile.
The Boss Hog
what's a regrind?
[/b][/quote]
They take a stock Ford cam and grind down the base circle to make a new profile.
The Boss Hog
2/18/06, 01:29 AM
#47
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Boss Hog @ February 15, 2006, 2:47 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
They take a stock Ford cam and grind down the base circle to make a new profile.
The Boss Hog
[/b][/quote]
more questions...
1) what is the base circle?
2) how does this impact performance?
They take a stock Ford cam and grind down the base circle to make a new profile.
The Boss Hog
[/b][/quote]
more questions...
1) what is the base circle?
2) how does this impact performance?
2/18/06, 08:49 AM
#48
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If you took the lobes off of the cam, the portions that lifted the valves, the cam would be cylindrical. This smallest cylinder is the base circle. When the lifter is on the base circle, the valve is closed.
If you grind down the base circle, you can make the relative size of the lobes larger. After you've done this you have to compensate for the smaller base circle using longer pushrods, or lifters, or however the heck they do it on these OHC cars.
There are about 4 ways to adjust performance with a cam. Increase or decrease the valve lift (height of the lobe), increase or decrease the duration (the length of time the valve is open, dictated by the width of the lobe), change the valve overlap (how the lobes overlap, this leads to both valves being open at once), and cam timing. Retarding the cam timing give you better high rpm performance, and vice versa. This is why the variable cam timing sytem is so cool.
I'll touch briefly on a couple of other things: It should be remembered that you cannot simply lift the valves real high without changing duration, because the lobes can't be too square. Valve acceleration and ramp up would be too fast. You can add a bit of lift, but adding more you need to broaden the duration to give the valvetrain time to "climb the hill." Finally, overlap. Overlap is what causes the kickass lope at idle that everyone likes so much, but its real function is to help cylinder filling. By having both the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time, the vacuum created by the exhaust is better able to pull fresh charge into the engines cylinder. This is only effective in certain rev ranges, (typically around peak power) because of things like the heimholtz effect, ram tuning, the exhaust tuning, port sizes, the mass/density of the air, etc... The inertial and vacuum effects necessary to make it work only exist at certain times.
I've left a lot out. You can go read this as well.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm.
If you grind down the base circle, you can make the relative size of the lobes larger. After you've done this you have to compensate for the smaller base circle using longer pushrods, or lifters, or however the heck they do it on these OHC cars.
There are about 4 ways to adjust performance with a cam. Increase or decrease the valve lift (height of the lobe), increase or decrease the duration (the length of time the valve is open, dictated by the width of the lobe), change the valve overlap (how the lobes overlap, this leads to both valves being open at once), and cam timing. Retarding the cam timing give you better high rpm performance, and vice versa. This is why the variable cam timing sytem is so cool.
I'll touch briefly on a couple of other things: It should be remembered that you cannot simply lift the valves real high without changing duration, because the lobes can't be too square. Valve acceleration and ramp up would be too fast. You can add a bit of lift, but adding more you need to broaden the duration to give the valvetrain time to "climb the hill." Finally, overlap. Overlap is what causes the kickass lope at idle that everyone likes so much, but its real function is to help cylinder filling. By having both the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time, the vacuum created by the exhaust is better able to pull fresh charge into the engines cylinder. This is only effective in certain rev ranges, (typically around peak power) because of things like the heimholtz effect, ram tuning, the exhaust tuning, port sizes, the mass/density of the air, etc... The inertial and vacuum effects necessary to make it work only exist at certain times.
I've left a lot out. You can go read this as well.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm.
2/18/06, 12:24 PM
#49
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eighty6gt @ February 18, 2006, 7:52 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
If you took the lobes off of the cam, the portions that lifted the valves, the cam would be cylindrical. This smallest cylinder is the base circle. When the lifter is on the base circle, the valve is closed.
If you grind down the base circle, you can make the relative size of the lobes larger. After you've done this you have to compensate for the smaller base circle using longer pushrods, or lifters, or however the heck they do it on these OHC cars.
There are about 4 ways to adjust performance with a cam. Increase or decrease the valve lift (height of the lobe), increase or decrease the duration (the length of time the valve is open, dictated by the width of the lobe), change the valve overlap (how the lobes overlap, this leads to both valves being open at once), and cam timing. Retarding the cam timing give you better high rpm performance, and vice versa. This is why the variable cam timing sytem is so cool.
I'll touch briefly on a couple of other things: It should be remembered that you cannot simply lift the valves real high without changing duration, because the lobes can't be too square. Valve acceleration and ramp up would be too fast. You can add a bit of lift, but adding more you need to broaden the duration to give the valvetrain time to "climb the hill." Finally, overlap. Overlap is what causes the kickass lope at idle that everyone likes so much, but its real function is to help cylinder filling. By having both the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time, the vacuum created by the exhaust is better able to pull fresh charge into the engines cylinder. This is only effective in certain rev ranges, (typically around peak power) because of things like the heimholtz effect, ram tuning, the exhaust tuning, port sizes, the mass/density of the air, etc... The inertial and vacuum effects necessary to make it work only exist at certain times.
I've left a lot out. You can go read this as well.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm.
[/b][/quote]
good stuff [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] thanks
If you took the lobes off of the cam, the portions that lifted the valves, the cam would be cylindrical. This smallest cylinder is the base circle. When the lifter is on the base circle, the valve is closed.
If you grind down the base circle, you can make the relative size of the lobes larger. After you've done this you have to compensate for the smaller base circle using longer pushrods, or lifters, or however the heck they do it on these OHC cars.
There are about 4 ways to adjust performance with a cam. Increase or decrease the valve lift (height of the lobe), increase or decrease the duration (the length of time the valve is open, dictated by the width of the lobe), change the valve overlap (how the lobes overlap, this leads to both valves being open at once), and cam timing. Retarding the cam timing give you better high rpm performance, and vice versa. This is why the variable cam timing sytem is so cool.
I'll touch briefly on a couple of other things: It should be remembered that you cannot simply lift the valves real high without changing duration, because the lobes can't be too square. Valve acceleration and ramp up would be too fast. You can add a bit of lift, but adding more you need to broaden the duration to give the valvetrain time to "climb the hill." Finally, overlap. Overlap is what causes the kickass lope at idle that everyone likes so much, but its real function is to help cylinder filling. By having both the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time, the vacuum created by the exhaust is better able to pull fresh charge into the engines cylinder. This is only effective in certain rev ranges, (typically around peak power) because of things like the heimholtz effect, ram tuning, the exhaust tuning, port sizes, the mass/density of the air, etc... The inertial and vacuum effects necessary to make it work only exist at certain times.
I've left a lot out. You can go read this as well.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm.
[/b][/quote]
good stuff [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] thanks
2/18/06, 06:52 PM
#50
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nonsensez9 @ February 18, 2006, 1:27 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
good stuff [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] thanks
[/b][/quote]
Hey guys,
I haven't forgotten about you, I've been calling Comp every other day trying to get anykinda info about the cams but all I know is they have them in stock but are just waiting on a price to be setup for them.
How long can it take to put a price tag on something????!!!!
good stuff [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] thanks
[/b][/quote]
Hey guys,
I haven't forgotten about you, I've been calling Comp every other day trying to get anykinda info about the cams but all I know is they have them in stock but are just waiting on a price to be setup for them.
How long can it take to put a price tag on something????!!!!
2/18/06, 08:18 PM
#52
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Crane Cams has FOUR grinds available for the 3V.
Part # .050 .006 lobe sep Gross int/exh
399501 208/224 256/272 114 .468/.516
399511 216/236 264/284 114 .492/.552
399521 228/244 276/292 112 .528/.576
399531 236/252 284/300 112 .552/.600
All these must use spring # 37830-24 and retainer # 39660-24
The spring is the same as used on the 2V but the 3V has a smaller valve stem diameter requiring a different retainer than the 2V
The use of stock pistons, cam phaser and factory tuning can cause possible exhuast valve to piston contact. So you will either have to flycut the pistons, install the cams with the old 2V cam gear or develop computer cam phased timing that will be compatible with the new cam.
Part # .050 .006 lobe sep Gross int/exh
399501 208/224 256/272 114 .468/.516
399511 216/236 264/284 114 .492/.552
399521 228/244 276/292 112 .528/.576
399531 236/252 284/300 112 .552/.600
All these must use spring # 37830-24 and retainer # 39660-24
The spring is the same as used on the 2V but the 3V has a smaller valve stem diameter requiring a different retainer than the 2V
The use of stock pistons, cam phaser and factory tuning can cause possible exhuast valve to piston contact. So you will either have to flycut the pistons, install the cams with the old 2V cam gear or develop computer cam phased timing that will be compatible with the new cam.
2/18/06, 08:43 PM
#53
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(redbullet @ February 18, 2006, 10:21 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Crane Cams has FOUR grinds available for the 3V.
Part # .050 .006 lobe sep Gross int/exh
399501 208/224 256/272 114 .468/.516
399511 216/236 264/284 114 .492/.552
399521 228/244 276/292 112 .528/.576
399531 236/252 284/300 112 .552/.600
All these must use spring # 37830-24 and retainer # 39660-24
The spring is the same as used on the 2V but the 3V has a smaller valve stem diameter requiring a different retainer than the 2V
The use of stock pistons, cam phaser and factory tuning can cause possible exhuast valve to piston contact. So you will either have to flycut the pistons, install the cams with the old 2V cam gear or develop computer cam phased timing that will be compatible with the new cam.
[/b][/quote]
Great Info, thanks Glen [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] Just a couple of questions;
1.) does your warning on exhaust valve to piston interference apply to all four grinds or just #399531?
2.) Since you mention using the old cam gear (to get rid of the VVT), did you happen to do any dyno runs to see just what the VVT was doing for the torque curve?
Thanks again,
The Boss Hog
Crane Cams has FOUR grinds available for the 3V.
Part # .050 .006 lobe sep Gross int/exh
399501 208/224 256/272 114 .468/.516
399511 216/236 264/284 114 .492/.552
399521 228/244 276/292 112 .528/.576
399531 236/252 284/300 112 .552/.600
All these must use spring # 37830-24 and retainer # 39660-24
The spring is the same as used on the 2V but the 3V has a smaller valve stem diameter requiring a different retainer than the 2V
The use of stock pistons, cam phaser and factory tuning can cause possible exhuast valve to piston contact. So you will either have to flycut the pistons, install the cams with the old 2V cam gear or develop computer cam phased timing that will be compatible with the new cam.
[/b][/quote]
Great Info, thanks Glen [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] Just a couple of questions;
1.) does your warning on exhaust valve to piston interference apply to all four grinds or just #399531?
2.) Since you mention using the old cam gear (to get rid of the VVT), did you happen to do any dyno runs to see just what the VVT was doing for the torque curve?
Thanks again,
The Boss Hog
2/19/06, 06:19 AM
#54
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Boss Hog @ February 18, 2006, 10:46 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Great Info, thanks Glen [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] Just a couple of questions;
1.) does your warning on exhaust valve to piston interference apply to all four grinds or just #399531?
2.) Since you mention using the old cam gear (to get rid of the VVT), did you happen to do any dyno runs to see just what the VVT was doing for the torque curve?
Thanks again,
The Boss Hog
[/b][/quote]
I have no affiliation w/Crane Cams. These are the specs on the flier I got from one of their reps at a recent show. It says can cause valve to piston clearence problems on 399511,399521,399531. The purpose of the VVT is to flatten the torgue curve and extend the power range. As the 3V comes from the factory, my understanding is that they are installed all the way forward and the VVT retards them. I would find any way short of pulling the heads to keep the VVT. It does mention computer tuning so perhaps less agressive phasing would work and the PCM can be tuned to eliminate VVT altogether but keep it stock looking
For power gains, w/o the VVT I would expect gains similar to a 2V percentage wise.
The real question, and I haven't found an answer yet is, what are the specs on the stock cam?
Great Info, thanks Glen [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] Just a couple of questions;
1.) does your warning on exhaust valve to piston interference apply to all four grinds or just #399531?
2.) Since you mention using the old cam gear (to get rid of the VVT), did you happen to do any dyno runs to see just what the VVT was doing for the torque curve?
Thanks again,
The Boss Hog
[/b][/quote]
I have no affiliation w/Crane Cams. These are the specs on the flier I got from one of their reps at a recent show. It says can cause valve to piston clearence problems on 399511,399521,399531. The purpose of the VVT is to flatten the torgue curve and extend the power range. As the 3V comes from the factory, my understanding is that they are installed all the way forward and the VVT retards them. I would find any way short of pulling the heads to keep the VVT. It does mention computer tuning so perhaps less agressive phasing would work and the PCM can be tuned to eliminate VVT altogether but keep it stock looking
For power gains, w/o the VVT I would expect gains similar to a 2V percentage wise.
The real question, and I haven't found an answer yet is, what are the specs on the stock cam?
2/19/06, 10:32 AM
#55
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(redbullet @ February 19, 2006, 8:22 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have no affiliation w/Crane Cams. These are the specs on the flier I got from one of their reps at a recent show. It says can cause valve to piston clearence problems on 399511,399521,399531. The purpose of the VVT is to flatten the torgue curve and extend the power range. As the 3V comes from the factory, my understanding is that they are installed all the way forward and the VVT retards them. I would find any way short of pulling the heads to keep the VVT. It does mention computer tuning so perhaps less agressive phasing would work and the PCM can be tuned to eliminate VVT altogether but keep it stock looking
For power gains, w/o the VVT I would expect gains similar to a 2V percentage wise.
The real question, and I haven't found an answer yet is, what are the specs on the stock cam?
[/b][/quote]
I miss read your first post in that I thought you were talking about CompCams, not Crane Cams. But again, thanks for the info. The only specs I have for the stock cam is lift:
Intake = .439
Exhaust = .436
Overall, the news on the Crane Cams is somewhat disappointing [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img] at least for me. If CompCams turn out the same then I'll be really disappointed. The whole idea was to be able to get into the 330 to 340 rwhp range at a reasonable cost and with reasonable effort. But now it looks like this:
1. Must flycut the pistons so . . .
2. Must pull heads so . .
3. Must pull engine . . [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img] . . so
4. Might as well build bottom end . . . $$$
A nice mid-pressure bolt-on blower is starting to look better to me.
The Boss Hog . . . . . [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
I have no affiliation w/Crane Cams. These are the specs on the flier I got from one of their reps at a recent show. It says can cause valve to piston clearence problems on 399511,399521,399531. The purpose of the VVT is to flatten the torgue curve and extend the power range. As the 3V comes from the factory, my understanding is that they are installed all the way forward and the VVT retards them. I would find any way short of pulling the heads to keep the VVT. It does mention computer tuning so perhaps less agressive phasing would work and the PCM can be tuned to eliminate VVT altogether but keep it stock looking
For power gains, w/o the VVT I would expect gains similar to a 2V percentage wise.
The real question, and I haven't found an answer yet is, what are the specs on the stock cam?
[/b][/quote]
I miss read your first post in that I thought you were talking about CompCams, not Crane Cams. But again, thanks for the info. The only specs I have for the stock cam is lift:
Intake = .439
Exhaust = .436
Overall, the news on the Crane Cams is somewhat disappointing [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img] at least for me. If CompCams turn out the same then I'll be really disappointed. The whole idea was to be able to get into the 330 to 340 rwhp range at a reasonable cost and with reasonable effort. But now it looks like this:
1. Must flycut the pistons so . . .
2. Must pull heads so . .
3. Must pull engine . . [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img] . . so
4. Might as well build bottom end . . . $$$
A nice mid-pressure bolt-on blower is starting to look better to me.
The Boss Hog . . . . . [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
2/19/06, 10:56 AM
#56
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yeah.... this sucks.... I sure hope there is a computer fix to eliminate flycutting the pistons. and I wouldnt mind losing the VVT for a decent increase in power. Cant you just use the 2v cam gear and kill the VVT if I want? wouldnt that make everything much easier, so you dont have to deal with the VVT?
2/19/06, 04:34 PM
#57
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperorjordan @ February 19, 2006, 12:59 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
yeah.... this sucks.... I sure hope there is a computer fix to eliminate flycutting the pistons. and I wouldnt mind losing the VVT for a decent increase in power. Cant you just use the 2v cam gear and kill the VVT if I want? wouldnt that make everything much easier, so you dont have to deal with the VVT?
[/b][/quote]
You could use the 2V gear, that is one of Crane's suggestions, but then you lose the benefit of the VVT which is a fatter wide torque curve. JMS Engineering may know how much leeway there is or anyother engine builder/tuner.
yeah.... this sucks.... I sure hope there is a computer fix to eliminate flycutting the pistons. and I wouldnt mind losing the VVT for a decent increase in power. Cant you just use the 2v cam gear and kill the VVT if I want? wouldnt that make everything much easier, so you dont have to deal with the VVT?
[/b][/quote]
You could use the 2V gear, that is one of Crane's suggestions, but then you lose the benefit of the VVT which is a fatter wide torque curve. JMS Engineering may know how much leeway there is or anyother engine builder/tuner.
