Aluminum Driveshaft Failure at 70 mph...
10/1/07, 03:22 PM
#201
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Hey everyone, just wanted to update this thread. The conclusion is that I will allow the insurance company to total out the car and be done with it. I'm currently in discussions with the insurance company to determine the fair market value.
As an informational piece on fair market values: When the insurance company "tells" you what you're entitled to for your vehicle you should do your own research in the used car websites for vehicles with similar milage and conditions. They initially offered me about $24,300 for the FMV, then you add an extra $1,900 for tax and license paid. However, there are other '06 Mustangs with 21k miles that are listed for sale around $27,900. That establishes a fair market value. I asked the insurance guy to send me a copy of the report used to come to a $24,300 value. He did and I quickly spotted some critical points: they classified my car condition as "normal". And right next to "normal" is a description along the lines of: "Seats - Normal: light wear, some fading, minimal tears, etc". Well that category simply doesn't apply to my car. The company determined what is classified as normal and this clearly doesn't apply. Next, I spoke with the adjuster and pointed this out, he told me that they rarely use the "above average" category but he would check with someone. He did, and within an hour he called back to tell me they made the change and he is now offering me $25,800, $1,500 more just by paying attention to their report.
However, this is still significantly under the listed price for a similar vehicle at a nearby dealership of $27,900. So I contacted www.autoloss.com and had them prepare an appraisal to send to the insurance company. They have, and this week I should be receiveing an updated "fair market value" from the insurance company. I only paid $27,300 (using the Ford A-Z plan) but that doesn't change that value of my car. So I may be getting back more than I paid after taking the time and doing some homework!
As an informational piece on fair market values: When the insurance company "tells" you what you're entitled to for your vehicle you should do your own research in the used car websites for vehicles with similar milage and conditions. They initially offered me about $24,300 for the FMV, then you add an extra $1,900 for tax and license paid. However, there are other '06 Mustangs with 21k miles that are listed for sale around $27,900. That establishes a fair market value. I asked the insurance guy to send me a copy of the report used to come to a $24,300 value. He did and I quickly spotted some critical points: they classified my car condition as "normal". And right next to "normal" is a description along the lines of: "Seats - Normal: light wear, some fading, minimal tears, etc". Well that category simply doesn't apply to my car. The company determined what is classified as normal and this clearly doesn't apply. Next, I spoke with the adjuster and pointed this out, he told me that they rarely use the "above average" category but he would check with someone. He did, and within an hour he called back to tell me they made the change and he is now offering me $25,800, $1,500 more just by paying attention to their report.
However, this is still significantly under the listed price for a similar vehicle at a nearby dealership of $27,900. So I contacted www.autoloss.com and had them prepare an appraisal to send to the insurance company. They have, and this week I should be receiveing an updated "fair market value" from the insurance company. I only paid $27,300 (using the Ford A-Z plan) but that doesn't change that value of my car. So I may be getting back more than I paid after taking the time and doing some homework!
10/1/07, 06:08 PM
#202
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Hey everyone, just wanted to update this thread. The conclusion is that I will allow the insurance company to total out the car and be done with it. I'm currently in discussions with the insurance company to determine the fair market value.
As an informational piece on fair market values: When the insurance company "tells" you what you're entitled to for your vehicle you should do your own research in the used car websites for vehicles with similar milage and conditions. They initially offered me about $24,300 for the FMV, then you add an extra $1,900 for tax and license paid. However, there are other '06 Mustangs with 21k miles that are listed for sale around $27,900. That establishes a fair market value. I asked the insurance guy to send me a copy of the report used to come to a $24,300 value. He did and I quickly spotted some critical points: they classified my car condition as "normal". And right next to "normal" is a description along the lines of: "Seats - Normal: light wear, some fading, minimal tears, etc". Well that category simply doesn't apply to my car. The company determined what is classified as normal and this clearly doesn't apply. Next, I spoke with the adjuster and pointed this out, he told me that they rarely use the "above average" category but he would check with someone. He did, and within an hour he called back to tell me they made the change and he is now offering me $25,800, $1,500 more just by paying attention to their report.
However, this is still significantly under the listed price for a similar vehicle at a nearby dealership of $27,900. So I contacted www.autoloss.com and had them prepare an appraisal to send to the insurance company. They have, and this week I should be receiveing an updated "fair market value" from the insurance company. I only paid $27,300 (using the Ford A-Z plan) but that doesn't change that value of my car. So I may be getting back more than I paid after taking the time and doing some homework!
As an informational piece on fair market values: When the insurance company "tells" you what you're entitled to for your vehicle you should do your own research in the used car websites for vehicles with similar milage and conditions. They initially offered me about $24,300 for the FMV, then you add an extra $1,900 for tax and license paid. However, there are other '06 Mustangs with 21k miles that are listed for sale around $27,900. That establishes a fair market value. I asked the insurance guy to send me a copy of the report used to come to a $24,300 value. He did and I quickly spotted some critical points: they classified my car condition as "normal". And right next to "normal" is a description along the lines of: "Seats - Normal: light wear, some fading, minimal tears, etc". Well that category simply doesn't apply to my car. The company determined what is classified as normal and this clearly doesn't apply. Next, I spoke with the adjuster and pointed this out, he told me that they rarely use the "above average" category but he would check with someone. He did, and within an hour he called back to tell me they made the change and he is now offering me $25,800, $1,500 more just by paying attention to their report.
However, this is still significantly under the listed price for a similar vehicle at a nearby dealership of $27,900. So I contacted www.autoloss.com and had them prepare an appraisal to send to the insurance company. They have, and this week I should be receiveing an updated "fair market value" from the insurance company. I only paid $27,300 (using the Ford A-Z plan) but that doesn't change that value of my car. So I may be getting back more than I paid after taking the time and doing some homework!
Several years back I had an accident that wasn't my fault and my car got totalled. What I wound up settling for was the Kelly Private Party value. I actually made money considering I paid less for the car.
My insurance agent also happens to be a friend of mine
His opinion is ask for retail blue book plus taxes, title etc but what you may end up settling for slightly less than that. He also reminded me that their main goal is to CLOSE THE CASE partly because whether you intend to do it or not there is always the possibility of medical damages and they want that possibility to go away. He suggested NOT signing anything releasing them of medical payments until you have a payoff for your car in writing. The longer the case is open the better positioned you'll be in the negotiation because they want you to go away.Anyway, if your not in any particular hurry to get a new car I would sit at retail value all day long. What have you got to lose but time?
10/3/07, 04:20 PM
#204
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I don't know what mods. you had other than ds. but I feel that if you can get in the $27000 range you will have a fair settlement. Let us know what the final $$$ amount is.
10/13/07, 12:55 AM
#205
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Parts for Sale
Hello everyone, as you know I’ve decided to let the insurance company keep the car. Unfortunately I’m not in a position to buy another right now (plus I have my modified ’00 Eclipse GT to keep me happy in the meantime) and I’m going to keep my options open in terms of my next type of car. So with that in mind I’ve started a thread in the For Sale area with my parts that are available. So if you’re interested in the following items they’re going to by listed under “Myy06 Screaming Yellow Mustang GT Parts”. Link: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showth...68#post1023568
PIAA Super Rozza Wheels
Magnaflow Exhaust
BBK Twin 62mm Throttle Body
Pro 5.0 Shifter (Used for 2-weeks before incident)
Hurst Short Shifter (switched for the Pro 5.0) + T-shape shift ****
Brushed Aluminum e-brake handle
JLT Intake (yellow of course)
SCT Xcal II
Ford Racing 3.73 gears (new)
Thanks again for all of the support!
PIAA Super Rozza Wheels
Magnaflow Exhaust
BBK Twin 62mm Throttle Body
Pro 5.0 Shifter (Used for 2-weeks before incident)
Hurst Short Shifter (switched for the Pro 5.0) + T-shape shift ****
Brushed Aluminum e-brake handle
JLT Intake (yellow of course)
SCT Xcal II
Ford Racing 3.73 gears (new)
Thanks again for all of the support!
11/4/07, 01:26 AM
#206
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Funny how things work out when you're patient! And of course I have all of my mods still in hand! Whew!
11/4/07, 08:40 AM
#209
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I'm really glad to hear you're pursuing this to the fullest extent. You deserve the compensation and that shop owner deserves the pain and torture. You've also probably saved however many future "customers" from experiencing the same lousy treatment.
Hopefully this will all be over soon and become a good story to tell from the past
Hopefully this will all be over soon and become a good story to tell from the past
11/4/07, 11:22 AM
#211
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I was able to negotiate a value of $26,600 plus $2340 for tax & lic, another $606 for loss of use, and another $1,600 for reimbursement for expenses. Then I've filed a small claims suit for an additional $7,400 against the shop owner. That's close to $38k............ Funny how things work out when you're patient! And of course I have all of my mods still in hand! Whew!
Funny how things work out when you're patient! And of course I have all of my mods still in hand! Whew!
11/4/07, 03:23 PM
#212
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Couldn't have said it better myself!
11/5/07, 05:01 AM
#214
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This was a great learning experience for me. Thanks for posting.
12/4/07, 07:42 AM
#217
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Hello Forum Members,
We are a new “Authorized Advertiser” on The Mustang Source Forums with over 40 years experience in driveshaft manufacturing and repair. We have spent a little time reading through this entire thread and would like to offer our view on the driveshaft failure experienced by My05.
For this analysis we have assumed that the vehicle has a 5 speed automatic transmission and 235/55 17” tires. We have read that My05 had the rear axle re-ratioed to 4:10.
Taking these figures into consideration we have determined that while the engine was turning approximately 2650 RPM at 75 MPH the driveshaft on this vehicle was turning approximately 3418 RPM at 75 MPH. This is due to the fact that in overdrive the transmission is turning 129% of engine RPM.
We consider this to be too high of an RPM to be consistently turning an external slip style steel driveshaft of the length required by this vehicle. When you also consider that the driveshaft was probably manufactured with greasable universal joints that by their design must have looser tolerances in order to purge grease. These things can lead to vibrations and premature failure. Even if the shaft purchased by My05 had been the correct length we believe it would still have had problems.
Shaftmasters Inc. manufactures 3.5” and 4” diameter single piece internal slip style aluminum driveshafts for 2005+ Mustangs. These shafts features the following:
Customer reviews of our shafts can be found at the following links:
3.5” Diameter:
http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=13602&highlight=shaftmasters
4” Diameter:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_4086511/tm.htm
http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=13018
It has been our experience that an aluminum driveshaft with quality non-greasable universal joints will consistently balance better and run smoother than a steel driveshaft at the higher RPM’s produced by today’s overdrive transmissions.
All of our Mustang replacement shafts feature Free UPS Ground shipping to the continental US and are available at the following link:
http://www.shaftmasters.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=184123b6b 394001a1cc9a52f235ac79e
Or you can call us at 1-866-912-2004 to order.
Thanks, David
We are a new “Authorized Advertiser” on The Mustang Source Forums with over 40 years experience in driveshaft manufacturing and repair. We have spent a little time reading through this entire thread and would like to offer our view on the driveshaft failure experienced by My05.
For this analysis we have assumed that the vehicle has a 5 speed automatic transmission and 235/55 17” tires. We have read that My05 had the rear axle re-ratioed to 4:10.
Taking these figures into consideration we have determined that while the engine was turning approximately 2650 RPM at 75 MPH the driveshaft on this vehicle was turning approximately 3418 RPM at 75 MPH. This is due to the fact that in overdrive the transmission is turning 129% of engine RPM.
We consider this to be too high of an RPM to be consistently turning an external slip style steel driveshaft of the length required by this vehicle. When you also consider that the driveshaft was probably manufactured with greasable universal joints that by their design must have looser tolerances in order to purge grease. These things can lead to vibrations and premature failure. Even if the shaft purchased by My05 had been the correct length we believe it would still have had problems.
Shaftmasters Inc. manufactures 3.5” and 4” diameter single piece internal slip style aluminum driveshafts for 2005+ Mustangs. These shafts features the following:
- 3.5” shaft features Heavy Duty .125 wall 6061-T6 aluminum tubing
- 1330 Series “Spicer Life” solid non-greasable universal joints
- Rated to 9800 RPM ½ critical speed and 5000 ft-lb of torsional yield
- 3”-23 spline slip with almost 4” of spline engagement
- V6 aluminum shaft weighs 17lbs. V8 aluminum shaft w/adapter plate weighs 18.5lbs.
- V8 shafts are available with either an adapter plate or a replacement pinion flange
- Internal sound deadener
Customer reviews of our shafts can be found at the following links:
3.5” Diameter:
http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=13602&highlight=shaftmasters
4” Diameter:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_4086511/tm.htm
http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=13018
It has been our experience that an aluminum driveshaft with quality non-greasable universal joints will consistently balance better and run smoother than a steel driveshaft at the higher RPM’s produced by today’s overdrive transmissions.
All of our Mustang replacement shafts feature Free UPS Ground shipping to the continental US and are available at the following link:
http://www.shaftmasters.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=184123b6b 394001a1cc9a52f235ac79e
Or you can call us at 1-866-912-2004 to order.
Thanks, David
12/4/07, 10:27 PM
#219
legacy Tms Member
do you have any 1/4 mile time differences for the alum vs stock driveshafts? I still am 'always the skeptic' but cant see how it would take more than maybe 1hp to accelerate a small diameter piece of steel to 4500 rpm in 14 seconds...(my stock GT ran a best of 13.78 at 103, redlining 3rd gear thru the lights- 1.32:1 third= about 4500 driveshaft rpm)
is the 'WK squared' inertia number out there somewhere for stock and aluminum units? SURELY someone out there has got the numbers on these shafts...
inertia, rpm and time would give undisputable true horsepower numbers, but have yet to ever see any adverised...
edit- just for the heck of it, lets look at a rediculous 'driveshaft' :
a SOLID steel 4" bar 60" long accelerating from 0 to 4500 rpm in 14 seconds requires only about 3 ft-lb over that time to hit that rpm...if I did the math right...I'm tired, so definitely no guarantees there...
(3 ftlb*4500 rpm)/5252= about 2.5 hp peak thru the lights (HP tapers linear from zero at 0 mph to 2.5 at 100 mph). I'd venture to guess if solid 4" is 2.5 peak, the tube version is WAY under 1hp peak...
maybe Ive go the math all wrong, but Ive read claims of 20 hp savings and such from a relatively light piece of tubing accelerating to 4500 rpm in 14 seconds, and it just dont feel right to me...after running numbers for a solid steel 4" bar, now I'm really skeptical...is there someone out there that can convince me, show me where I messed up the math or whatnot...please
if the purpose is a better balanced/higher rpm shaft, then I can kinda see the draw to aftermarket shafts, but if its for acceleration it seems a kinda low return on investment to me...the 'save 20 hp' claims ive seen from some ads (not shaftmasters) are the ones that get me scratchin my head...
heres the formulas I grabbed:
INERTIA (WK2)
For Solid Cylinders: WK2 = .000681 pLD4
For Hollow: WK2 = .000681 pL (D24 - D14)
Where:
is the 'WK squared' inertia number out there somewhere for stock and aluminum units? SURELY someone out there has got the numbers on these shafts...
inertia, rpm and time would give undisputable true horsepower numbers, but have yet to ever see any adverised...
edit- just for the heck of it, lets look at a rediculous 'driveshaft' :
a SOLID steel 4" bar 60" long accelerating from 0 to 4500 rpm in 14 seconds requires only about 3 ft-lb over that time to hit that rpm...if I did the math right...I'm tired, so definitely no guarantees there...
(3 ftlb*4500 rpm)/5252= about 2.5 hp peak thru the lights (HP tapers linear from zero at 0 mph to 2.5 at 100 mph). I'd venture to guess if solid 4" is 2.5 peak, the tube version is WAY under 1hp peak...
maybe Ive go the math all wrong, but Ive read claims of 20 hp savings and such from a relatively light piece of tubing accelerating to 4500 rpm in 14 seconds, and it just dont feel right to me...after running numbers for a solid steel 4" bar, now I'm really skeptical...is there someone out there that can convince me, show me where I messed up the math or whatnot...please
if the purpose is a better balanced/higher rpm shaft, then I can kinda see the draw to aftermarket shafts, but if its for acceleration it seems a kinda low return on investment to me...the 'save 20 hp' claims ive seen from some ads (not shaftmasters) are the ones that get me scratchin my head...
heres the formulas I grabbed:
INERTIA (WK2)
For Solid Cylinders: WK2 = .000681 pLD4
For Hollow: WK2 = .000681 pL (D24 - D14)
Where:
- WK2 = lb. ft2
- D1, D2, and L = in.
- p = lb. in3
- p (aluminun) = .0924
- p (bronze) = .320
- p (cast iron) = .260
- p (steel) = .282
ACCELERATING TORQUE
For rotating objects: T = (WK2 )∆ N / 308t
Where: For rotating objects: T = (WK2 )∆ N / 308t
- T = Torque required (lb- ft)
- WK2 = Total Inertia of load to be accelerated
- ∆N = Change in speed (rpm)
- t = Time to accelerate load (sec)
12/4/07, 10:49 PM
#220
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I'd like to throw in another tip. If you're worried about getting your loan paid off in the case of your car being totalled in an accident ask your insurance agent about "gap" insurance. Most people will say it's BS but it will cover the difference between your loan balance and the number they give you for the car which will always be low. Your insurance agent is not your friend, just another bill to pay so protect yourself.
I actually had a car totalled in an accident and ended up paying off the loan because the insurance company low balled the value and left me with 3500.00 balance. That was a lot of cash for 1990. Needless to say I'll never use that insurance company again.
Gap insurance is cheap too. Usually about 10.00 on top of your 6 month premium. Also this is gap insurance from your insurance company not the dealer when you buy the car. That kind of gap insurance is crap and does nothing for you only the lender and they roll the cost into the loan which means you pay interest on it too.
I actually had a car totalled in an accident and ended up paying off the loan because the insurance company low balled the value and left me with 3500.00 balance. That was a lot of cash for 1990. Needless to say I'll never use that insurance company again.
Gap insurance is cheap too. Usually about 10.00 on top of your 6 month premium. Also this is gap insurance from your insurance company not the dealer when you buy the car. That kind of gap insurance is crap and does nothing for you only the lender and they roll the cost into the loan which means you pay interest on it too.
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