Wolfsburg

I like the Challenger fairly well (the Camaro, not so much), but I'll probably just wait and see what Ford has to offer. I'm in a bit of a conundrum as I'm in the early process of getting an '08 S197, but really am wondering if I should just wait and see what's in the Mustang pipeline.

97GT03SVT

I was in the same position to buy a GT500 (had a deposit back in 04') or another SE. I love the GT but after having a Cobra for a couple years I wanna go to something to equal or better power. My next car has to have 400-450HP.I hope Ford's next Mustang will if not i'll try to buy a used GT500 or even switch to the dark side and buy a Challenger or Camaro

bob

Meh... I'm happy with Mustang, even with the advantage of power and a more sophisitcated chassis on the camaro and challenger, I don't think I could get the same level of warm fuzzy satisfaction I get with my GT. Mustangs have always been a purely emotional purchase for me. I'm not a serious drag racer or track racer (I do those things for fun, not for a living) so having the most sophisitcated and powerful car in class isn't important (don't get me wrong, I like to win races). Thats probably why I like this knuckle dragging and unsophisticated car, its different from alot of things out there and doesn't make excuses for what it is.

97GT03SVT

I used to be a die-hard Ford nut, I only bought Fords until just recently. From the time I was 16 all I have owned was Fords (Explorer, couple of F-150s, Countour, 4 Mustangs) but when the time came for my most recent car search Ford had nothing that interested me outside of the Truck and Mustang market Ford has slim pickings. I was in the market for a sporty mid-size sedan. I would have bought an SVT Fusion if one was availible for purchase. Instead I ended up buying a Subaru Legacy GT.... and i gotta tell ya it's one of the coolest cars I have ever owned (almost as fast as a GT Mustang and will outhandle it)....almost as fun as a Mustang (still like my RWD pony car)...The moral of the story is test the waters and try everything out. As much as I love the Mustang if the Challenger or Camaro is the better car for the same money i'm gonna go with the competiton!

bob

See thats the thing, I like the Mustang's combinantion of attributes, its simple chassis is rugged, easy to modify and cheap to maintain and goes about its business very well. The Mustang offers good power, giving it very good performance (if one considers a sub 14 second car capable of nearly 150 mph slow, they are jaded indeed, considering your typical conveyance is 1.5 to 2.0 seconds slower on average and are typically limited due to the tires in the neighborhood of 115 mph). The Mustang also screwed together pretty well.

On a more subjective note, I like the car's styling inside and out (imagine my surpise when the interior was actually better than the abundant use of left over Revell model parts plastic claimed by most internet experts and thier discerning eye for picking out details from small magazine pictures). The latter of which makes it - like it or not - instantly recognizable as a Mustang.

I could have picked from a wide range of vehicles (my car MSRP'd at 31k), but I think none of them offered the same combination of attributes the Mustang offered ( styling & performance - even better, if you go fast in a Mustang, its not due to a bunch of gizmos, but a genuine effort on your part to extract that performance).

97GT03SVT

I understand what you are saying Bob, but don't you think the Camaro and Challenger will have those same positive attributes? I don't have a crystal ball or anything but back in the day Chevys have always been cheaper to modify than Fords. I do like the Mustang interior better than both the Challenger and Camaro but like the transition from 4th to 5th gen for the Mustang the Camaro will be vastly improved. Part of me wants to just get the best bang for my buck and i'm a little jaded by how i, a loyal customer was cheated out of a GT500 at MSRP after putting down a deposit in 04'. Part of that has stripped some of my loyalty from Ford. Insted of buying a Fusion I ended up buying a Legacy (the first non-Ford product I have ever owned). My opinion is this, Ford has no loyalty to me why should I have loyalty to them. Will I buy a Mustang again? Sure, but only if its the best buy for my money.

Slims00ls1z28

Pick your poison Ford, Chevy, Dodge the pony wars are afoot again. My only concern is that a 300 HP car is plenty enough to kill multiple people I'm scared of the idiots with money who up the ante with this new slew of almost 500 or over 500 HP factory cars hit the streets. The gubment killed the wars back in the early 70's wonder how high it will get before they step in again? Hopefully after I get mine though .

97GT03SVT

I think that MPG numbers will stop the HP wars, every year cars now have to be more fuel friendly, I dunno how car companies will ever make supercharged V8s good on gas lol

RCSignals

Wouldn't your beef about losing the GT500 at MSRP be with the Dealer, not with Ford? Did you get that agreement for MSRP in writing from the Dealer when you left the deposit?
I've never been able to buy a car or truck directly from Ford, or any other car manufacturer.

Chevy's were not always cheaper to modify than Fords. Yes, some aftermarket engine parts were slightly lower priced, but not all. When you start with a 'cheaper' product it sometimes is that way.
If you want to know the history behind it you have to go back to 1957 and the ban on factory sponsored racing, which all agreed to but only Ford and Chrysler stuck to. There is a lot of good reading on it.

rhumb

I do agree that there are ominous signs of history repeating itself here. Just as in the late '60s and early '70s, American (and other) performance cars are getting ever more powerful, heavy and thirsty. Granted they have the non-CO2 emissions issues pretty well licked and they handle and brake far better than the cloddish behemoths of yore, energy is getting ever more scarce and global warming seems pretty well set.

I do wish that manufacturers would substitute engineering excess with engineering discipline and efficiency. Cap vehicle size and hp and instead, decrease mass and improve efficiencies to maintain or improve performance. The Corvette shows that mass can be constrained at no cost to features, rigidity, size and, well, cost. And the Lotus Elise/Exige show that low mass performance can be more entertaining than a hot date with blond triplets and a fist full of Viagra.

If the manufacturers don't start doing it, then Uncle Sam and the market place will, as happened 40 years ago, and it wasn't pretty (see exhibit A: Mustang II King Cobra with a fiery 132 hp).

97GT03SVT

I did contact Ford reps and they told me that the dealers had every right to charge ADMs reguarless of prior agreements (I wasnt the only one who got screwed) I have learned that it is a part of the business as most manufaturers to the same thing, but either way I personally feel betrayed by a company that I was loyal to for so many years.

As far as GMs being cheaper to modify i'm sticking to my guns. For the most part the small block chevy was usually a much easier car to work on as far as cost in concerned back in the day and even today (think 90s-00 4th gen cars) You can take any LS1 or LT1 and modify it on a budget (like our beloved 5.0) look at the 4.6s from 96-present day and its another ballpark. Though the aftermarket is much better now than it was in 96-98 it is still more expensive than the GM V8s the best example I can think of is to just look at a Summit catelog.

97GT03SVT

Back to the subject of the Challenger, new production photos of the car are hitting the web, different wheels, grille are the main highlights.motor trend has a story on it in their web sight. Plus Dodge confirmed the output of 425HP for the SRT8. Great lookin' car but like the GT500 it may take a while to get a hold of one! The whole issue of 38k versus the 40k price tag is with and without the gas guzzlers tax.

RCSignals

Your anger is misdirected. Thankfully there is more than one Ford Dealer.

Today there is much less of a difference in price of aftermarket parts between Chev and Ford. Anyway, 'cheap' parts don't make a better car.

97GT03SVT

Well, I should have clarified, GM pushrod motors tend to be easier to work on, and the parts are more affordible not "cheap" as in bad. The Ford Modular engines for the most part are higher tech and tend to cost more to perform upgrades. Think of the Chevy V8s as easily modifyible as the 5.0s of the 80s-90s

Knight

i would agree that gm engine parts are more affordable and like you said it is due to the simple engine design.

This is also because they are larger displacement and take well to simple mods becasue of that, unlike the 4.6 that needs forced induction to make up for its small bore size and displacment.

97GT03SVT

I hear ya sad but true..... Look at the Z06's 7 Liter that motor is crazy fast but is still part of the Chevy small block family

Slims00ls1z28

With exception to the SC motors Ford has had. They are much easier/cheaper to get to 700 hp than say an LS1, but mod motor vs LS1's from what I have seen in summit etc. its cheaper to mod GM v8's. My complete valvetrain cost the same as just cams on the new 3valvers. Headers much cheaper but then again we are looking at a 5year (minimum) old car vs a new one.