Interesting Read Honda Civic Si vs Ford Mustang GT
2/18/06, 12:25 PM
#21
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I' am no mechanical genius so if this sounds stupid feel free to flame me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
7800 RPM to produce 197 HP ? Why does it take that high RPM to produce 197 HP ? Isn't that wound a bit tight ?
1 meter diff in braking and how much weight diff is there ? A bunch I would assume.
Design wise, I think the Civic actually looks like crap anyway.
And if you notice the Civic pissed itself when it saw the GT pull up. (Look under the car) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
7800 RPM to produce 197 HP ? Why does it take that high RPM to produce 197 HP ? Isn't that wound a bit tight ?
1 meter diff in braking and how much weight diff is there ? A bunch I would assume.
Design wise, I think the Civic actually looks like crap anyway.
And if you notice the Civic pissed itself when it saw the GT pull up. (Look under the car) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
2/18/06, 01:13 PM
#22
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OKCMustangGT @ February 18, 2006, 2:28 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
And if you notice the Civic pissed itself when it saw the GT pull up. (Look under the car the car) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img]
And if you notice the Civic pissed itself when it saw the GT pull up. (Look under the car the car) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img]
2/18/06, 03:27 PM
#24
Stupid comparison. He did everything he could to convince himself the Civic was a better car. I have seen magazine articles do that too. After the car they want to win loses the 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mi, braking, skidpad, looks, etc... they throw things in there like they don't like the armrest to get their car to win.
The Civic was originally built to be a cheap grocery getter. The Mustang was built to get people (mainly youth) interested in cars again. It just so happens that everyone liked the Mustang when it came out, so people of all ages have always owned them. The only reason why the Civic got popular was due to the fact that many grandmothers gave their old grocery getters to their 16 yr old grandsons for free, which freed up some money for them to buy stickers and lights. MANY 16 year olds are incredibly bright and have more free time than us old guys, so they took what they had (hardly anything) and made something out of it. So...the credit doesn't go to Honda, it goes to the kids that got stuck with grandma's old car and turned it into a sports car somehow.
Also, the Mustang is not hi-tech? Maybe the guy doesn't know what V-tech is and what the 3V engine does? I thought LED 7 segment display speedo went out in the 80's when Ford and GM got rid of them?
Disclaimer:This post was all in fun...
The Civic was originally built to be a cheap grocery getter. The Mustang was built to get people (mainly youth) interested in cars again. It just so happens that everyone liked the Mustang when it came out, so people of all ages have always owned them. The only reason why the Civic got popular was due to the fact that many grandmothers gave their old grocery getters to their 16 yr old grandsons for free, which freed up some money for them to buy stickers and lights. MANY 16 year olds are incredibly bright and have more free time than us old guys, so they took what they had (hardly anything) and made something out of it. So...the credit doesn't go to Honda, it goes to the kids that got stuck with grandma's old car and turned it into a sports car somehow.
Also, the Mustang is not hi-tech? Maybe the guy doesn't know what V-tech is and what the 3V engine does? I thought LED 7 segment display speedo went out in the 80's when Ford and GM got rid of them?
Disclaimer:This post was all in fun...
2/18/06, 11:05 PM
#26
Legacy TMS Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OKCMustangGT @ February 18, 2006, 2:28 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
7800 RPM to produce 197 HP ? Why does it take that high RPM to produce 197 HP ? Isn't that wound a bit tight ?[/b][/quote]
Thats how you make big HP without torque, observe as I wave the wand used by that master of prestidigitation, James Watt
HP = Torque x RPM / 5252 or Torque = HP / RPM x 5252
The Honda SI's engine produces about 132 ft/lbs of torque @ 7800 RPM, add RPM and the HP will go up.
132 ft/lbs x 8500 RPM / 5252 = 214 HP
or lets go freak'n F1 crazy
132 ft/bs x 18,000 RPM / 5252 = 452 HP
Torque is the actual measured power output of the engine, where HP is the rate at which it can apply that output (if that makes any sense to you?)
7800 RPM to produce 197 HP ? Why does it take that high RPM to produce 197 HP ? Isn't that wound a bit tight ?[/b][/quote]
Thats how you make big HP without torque, observe as I wave the wand used by that master of prestidigitation, James Watt
HP = Torque x RPM / 5252 or Torque = HP / RPM x 5252
The Honda SI's engine produces about 132 ft/lbs of torque @ 7800 RPM, add RPM and the HP will go up.
132 ft/lbs x 8500 RPM / 5252 = 214 HP
or lets go freak'n F1 crazy
132 ft/bs x 18,000 RPM / 5252 = 452 HP
Torque is the actual measured power output of the engine, where HP is the rate at which it can apply that output (if that makes any sense to you?)
2/20/06, 12:03 PM
#27
Shelby GT500 Member
The Civic Si is faster than a pogo stick.
The Mustang is faster than the Civic.
The pogo stick looks better than the Civic.
The Mustang looks better than the Civic and the pogo stick combined.
Nuf said.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
The Mustang is faster than the Civic.
The pogo stick looks better than the Civic.
The Mustang looks better than the Civic and the pogo stick combined.
Nuf said.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
2/20/06, 01:28 PM
#28
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Hi all, I just sent the author of this article a nice and short email. Will I ever see a reply. I doubt it [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
********* Start of Email **********
Email: graeme@motoringtv.com
Subject: Sophistication V. Knuckle-dragging (Honda Civic Si vs Mustang GT)
Hi,
I had fun reading your article about the Mustang GT vs. Civic Si.. And actually posted the article on a Huge mustang forum (on Feb 17 @ 9:30am), and as of 3:15pm 2/20/2006 it has 594 views and 26 replies. With a ton of people trying to figure what your reasoning was for such an off-the-wall review was.
Here are some questions I have:
1) Why was the V6 Mustang not used. It has more HP, Torque (lower power band too). And even in the same basic price bracket. To get 197HP out of the Honda you need 7800RPM!.. That's crazy. The V6 might weigh more, but I believe it even has a faster 0-60 time (that's mph btw)
2) Comparing a Civic Si to a Mustang GT. What's next a Ford GT vs S2000 ? Your 0-60 time of the Mustang seems rather slow as well. Maybe you should re-test that... LOL
3) The Mustang uses a 4.6 litre V8 that relies on displacement rather than technology to deliver its goods" Partly true but come on, do you know the Mustang has a similar technology to honda's V-tech ? And yes the bigger motor produces more TORQUE, has 3-valve head. Plus the Mustang uses Fly-By-Wire throttle control.
4) I'm really sure what you mean by clunking off the line. I'm pretty new to driving standard, and I can punch my car off the line with no clunking.
5) How on EARTH can you say the Clutch is heavy? Do you realize that with a bigger motor, you'll need a bigger clutch??? Plus the Mustang uses a hydraulic assisted clutch anyway, which makes it a breeze to drive.
6) You mention the crappy 61% weight over the front wheels of the Civic. But no where did you mention the Mustang GT is almost 50/50. It's a brand new SUPER-rigid uni-body construction
The Civic should've been compared to a Fusion or such. Not a Mustang GT. Sorry your review/comparison is a complete joke. The Civic is supposed to be a "grocery getter", yet the Mustang has a larger trunk.. LOL.
And finally you comment about the Civic SI's technology (Which BTW has had 2 major safety recalls in the last few months... oh yes I forgot only North American recalls make "front page news")
If your mainly talking about the solid-rear axle. For Ford to put a independent rear in the Mustang would cost a lot more when comapred to Honda (which BTW is front-wheel-drive), to handle the 320ft-lbs of torque would require quite a beefy and expensive rear-end. If you want to keep the price low, you need to cut items. You'd be hard pressed to find another vehicle on the market right now that's COMPARABLE to the Mustang in terms of raw-performance and body regidity. And no this comparison you did doesn't cut it.
Regardless though if it had independent suspension, you'd find something else to complain about, since it's "Made in the USA". Just because the Civic is made in Ontario, that doesn't make it an North American Vehicle (But I assume you already know this...)
The ripping up of North American auto manufactures has got to stop, they've proven themselves on building quality vehicles.
I bought my 2005 Mustang last Feb, and received it in May (oh yes a back-log of orders.. did that happen with the Civic?) And I've had a blast driving it.
********* End of Email ************
********* Start of Email **********
Email: graeme@motoringtv.com
Subject: Sophistication V. Knuckle-dragging (Honda Civic Si vs Mustang GT)
Hi,
I had fun reading your article about the Mustang GT vs. Civic Si.. And actually posted the article on a Huge mustang forum (on Feb 17 @ 9:30am), and as of 3:15pm 2/20/2006 it has 594 views and 26 replies. With a ton of people trying to figure what your reasoning was for such an off-the-wall review was.
Here are some questions I have:
1) Why was the V6 Mustang not used. It has more HP, Torque (lower power band too). And even in the same basic price bracket. To get 197HP out of the Honda you need 7800RPM!.. That's crazy. The V6 might weigh more, but I believe it even has a faster 0-60 time (that's mph btw)
2) Comparing a Civic Si to a Mustang GT. What's next a Ford GT vs S2000 ? Your 0-60 time of the Mustang seems rather slow as well. Maybe you should re-test that... LOL
3) The Mustang uses a 4.6 litre V8 that relies on displacement rather than technology to deliver its goods" Partly true but come on, do you know the Mustang has a similar technology to honda's V-tech ? And yes the bigger motor produces more TORQUE, has 3-valve head. Plus the Mustang uses Fly-By-Wire throttle control.
4) I'm really sure what you mean by clunking off the line. I'm pretty new to driving standard, and I can punch my car off the line with no clunking.
5) How on EARTH can you say the Clutch is heavy? Do you realize that with a bigger motor, you'll need a bigger clutch??? Plus the Mustang uses a hydraulic assisted clutch anyway, which makes it a breeze to drive.
6) You mention the crappy 61% weight over the front wheels of the Civic. But no where did you mention the Mustang GT is almost 50/50. It's a brand new SUPER-rigid uni-body construction
The Civic should've been compared to a Fusion or such. Not a Mustang GT. Sorry your review/comparison is a complete joke. The Civic is supposed to be a "grocery getter", yet the Mustang has a larger trunk.. LOL.
And finally you comment about the Civic SI's technology (Which BTW has had 2 major safety recalls in the last few months... oh yes I forgot only North American recalls make "front page news")
If your mainly talking about the solid-rear axle. For Ford to put a independent rear in the Mustang would cost a lot more when comapred to Honda (which BTW is front-wheel-drive), to handle the 320ft-lbs of torque would require quite a beefy and expensive rear-end. If you want to keep the price low, you need to cut items. You'd be hard pressed to find another vehicle on the market right now that's COMPARABLE to the Mustang in terms of raw-performance and body regidity. And no this comparison you did doesn't cut it.
Regardless though if it had independent suspension, you'd find something else to complain about, since it's "Made in the USA". Just because the Civic is made in Ontario, that doesn't make it an North American Vehicle (But I assume you already know this...)
The ripping up of North American auto manufactures has got to stop, they've proven themselves on building quality vehicles.
I bought my 2005 Mustang last Feb, and received it in May (oh yes a back-log of orders.. did that happen with the Civic?) And I've had a blast driving it.
********* End of Email ************
2/21/06, 08:44 AM
#31
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and i wonder how many drag launches at 7800 rpm that clutch will take? i read a sport compact car mag on the S2000. inorder to run a 13.99 they launched the car at 7500 and made 2 runs before the clutch was toast.............so much for that super light clutch. and who cares about how technologically advanced an engine supposedly is? when your car still only makes 197 HP. HP is king not engine displacement, or technology
2/24/06, 09:44 AM
#32
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This topic is very funny, my cousin who actually is getting an si, talk to me all the time how its such an amazing car blah blah blah, telling me "you dont know how fast this car is?" Like he should be talking, im driving the 300hp car. It gets makes me laugh so much, hearing about how fast the car is like i dont know. And then he talks about this "technology crap". like this is some old big block 405.
2/24/06, 04:33 PM
#33
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It's still February, right? Had me thinking it was the first of April. If that writer goes ape crap over the engine, suspension, and "high tech" stuff - he should've compared the Civic Si with the Ferrari F430. LOL. It would be more fair since they're both at the bottom of their respective manufacturer's sports model lineup. Let's see, hi tech, high-revving engine? check. independent rear suspension? check. stylish instrument cluster layouts? check. trunk space? Oops! Civic Si has a trunk, which means its a better car than the Ferrari. What a joke. And to all the tifosi, my sincerest apologies.
2/25/06, 06:55 AM
#34
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Hey Ben, your right, he won't email you back. I sent my email on the 17th, and have NOT gotten a response. I knew that going in, but I couldn't sit here and let this joker go on praising how great the Si is compared to the GT. Common sense is lost with some of these writers. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] . BTW, your email was excellent. Great points made. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
2/25/06, 07:32 AM
#35
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hi5.0 @ February 24, 2006, 6:36 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
It's still February, right? Had me thinking it was the first of April. If that writer goes ape crap over the engine, suspension, and "high tech" stuff - he should've compared the Civic Si with the Ferrari F430. LOL. It would be more fair since they're both at the bottom of their respective manufacturer's sports model lineup. Let's see, hi tech, high-revving engine? check. independent rear suspension? check. stylish instrument cluster layouts? check. trunk space? Oops! Civic Si has a trunk, which means its a better car than the Ferrari. What a joke. And to all the tifosi, my sincerest apologies.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah I never did expect a response, but at least I know he saw it (well the email address was correct). And hi5.0 it's not April 1st. I was laughing when I saw this article, I couldn't believe what I was reading!
Technology does make the Civic SI way better **YEAAAAAAAAAAH RIGHT*** [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] , now if they could get the torque up to any level even remotely comparable to the Mustang GT or even the v6, then this dude would have a leg to stand on [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img]
It's February 25, I only have 48 days to go before I'm driving mine again, hopefully I don't meet any Civic Si's on the road, cause now I'm scared... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
It's still February, right? Had me thinking it was the first of April. If that writer goes ape crap over the engine, suspension, and "high tech" stuff - he should've compared the Civic Si with the Ferrari F430. LOL. It would be more fair since they're both at the bottom of their respective manufacturer's sports model lineup. Let's see, hi tech, high-revving engine? check. independent rear suspension? check. stylish instrument cluster layouts? check. trunk space? Oops! Civic Si has a trunk, which means its a better car than the Ferrari. What a joke. And to all the tifosi, my sincerest apologies.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah I never did expect a response, but at least I know he saw it (well the email address was correct). And hi5.0 it's not April 1st. I was laughing when I saw this article, I couldn't believe what I was reading!
Technology does make the Civic SI way better **YEAAAAAAAAAAH RIGHT*** [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] , now if they could get the torque up to any level even remotely comparable to the Mustang GT or even the v6, then this dude would have a leg to stand on [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img]
It's February 25, I only have 48 days to go before I'm driving mine again, hopefully I don't meet any Civic Si's on the road, cause now I'm scared... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
2/25/06, 05:27 PM
#36
Wow, his reason for picking the Civic makes no sense... duh
And yeah, his times are horrible. 0-60 in 5.5? -ok kinda close 50-75 in 4.5? - it certainly never felt like that when I dropped it into 2nd...
My favorite part was actually when he called the 215/45-17s "oversized" tires. There's GTs out there with 100mm more on the back [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
And yeah, his times are horrible. 0-60 in 5.5? -ok kinda close 50-75 in 4.5? - it certainly never felt like that when I dropped it into 2nd...
My favorite part was actually when he called the 215/45-17s "oversized" tires. There's GTs out there with 100mm more on the back [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
2/28/06, 04:24 PM
#38
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigred0383 @ February 28, 2006, 5:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Everybody is entitled to their opinion...
[/b][/quote]
And everyone is entitled to critize said persons opinion.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion...
[/b][/quote]
And everyone is entitled to critize said persons opinion.
3/10/06, 08:31 AM
#39
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I like the Civic and Honda in general. For the MSRP it's a good buy for what you get. Unfortunately dealerships have marked up the SI's to right around $25+ grand, thats more than what alot of people paid for their GT's.
The comparo is way off. The SI is sporty but not performance, most level headed SI owners would agree. It's a fun high revving car that corners like it's on rails, where'as even though the new Mustang handles very well, most Mustang enthusiests are more concerned with quarter mile times and torque.
I don't know why alot of people still think the Mustang has a low tech high displacement engine. It has a small V8 that utilizes all the same high tech tricks Honda uses to get power from their four bangers. I think 300/320 from a 4.6 3v sohc V8 running on 87 octane is pretty respectable. 197/138 out of a 2ltr 4v dohc 4 banger running on premium only is pretty respectable too, but is it more "high tech"?
Next review: Honda Accord V6 vrs Corvette zo6
The comparo is way off. The SI is sporty but not performance, most level headed SI owners would agree. It's a fun high revving car that corners like it's on rails, where'as even though the new Mustang handles very well, most Mustang enthusiests are more concerned with quarter mile times and torque.
I don't know why alot of people still think the Mustang has a low tech high displacement engine. It has a small V8 that utilizes all the same high tech tricks Honda uses to get power from their four bangers. I think 300/320 from a 4.6 3v sohc V8 running on 87 octane is pretty respectable. 197/138 out of a 2ltr 4v dohc 4 banger running on premium only is pretty respectable too, but is it more "high tech"?
Next review: Honda Accord V6 vrs Corvette zo6