Subaru WRX= :gay: .

And no amount of tome writing can change it no matter how eloquently written. maybe you should head over to the pretentious M3 forum from whence you came Rhumb.

 

Actually Mark this thread was pertaining to the shelby hence my singling it out.

But aside from that yes i do and yes you are right they would all get spanked but then again shelby is supposedly the "Tuner" and the one built by your legend so as I've said so many times before I'd expect more.


So as I said enjoy your car and be happy in the fact that you will get owned by a subaru

 

Expect more from a Shelby?
I'm not knocking Shelby or his cars- but what more would you expect?
Were the Shelby's of the 60's the best handling, best driving cars of their time?
I highly doubt it.
The car is what it is. Looks great, sounds great, snaps you back into your seat, and keeps a smile on your face. What more can you ask for?

The SGT is a bit of an odd duck. Far less power than the GT500, it seems like it's been built to be the poor man's Shelby.
However the GT500 is built completely by Ford whereas the SGT gets sent directly to Shelby Auto to get upfitted- which in my mind makes it more of a Shelby than the GT500. There is actually a story or history to the making of the SGT.

 

A) Captain Obvious

B) Christopher Columbus

C) Ben Gates

 

+1000

Just what I was thinking!

By what I have seen posted here any Mustang, except POSSIBLY the GT500, is junk or something? This, like the article, which I haven't bothered to read, is nothing but flame bait!!

We're arguing about seconds here people! Real world, if you do this, you're DEAD, or you kill someone else. Having said that, based upon what I have seen on the highway, this is exactly how the idiots that buy these cars drive! I swear people that buy these cars have "issues" and I'm seriously not kidding. Guys in these cars running around to race anything they can find to prove a point, what that is I don't know. They get up on your rear, flash lights, drive next to you for miles trying to get you to race etc., I'm like please...grow up and come talk to me when your face clears up.

Frankly I'm sure these are fine cars! However the typical driver I have seen, and the way they drive them, has TOTALLY turned me off.

I would MUCH rather pull up in a Shelby than either of these cars I don't care how fast they go or how hard they turn. The guys that buy these cars feel differently that's fine, but don't come here telling people the reason they bought their car doesn't matter or that some other car will show them up based upon YOUR opinion or that of this article.

This entire conversation is stupid.

 

I am actually cross shopping the STi and the Bullitt myself.

After having owned an '02 WRX wagon, I can tell you that for $24K OTD for the car, plus $3K in upgrades, I was making close to 350 FWHP, plus had the capability to carry a 32" TV (in the box) inside the car, travel in all weather conditions, and (if I kept my foot out of it), maintain a 27mpg avg/tank.

Now that they've made the STi a 5-door (which is essentially what I tried to make out of my old WRX), I'm very tempted, since it offers a bit more practicality over the Bullitt, however it is more expensive (even the base is $35K). Pricing (and looks) favors the Bullitt, performance favors the STI, but being a Bullitt fan, it will be hard for me to ignore the Bullitt(especially now that I can actually fit in a Mustang-they've always lacked enough room for me until this new body style).

I agree in the looks dept, the STi is a turd. A fast, agile (and somewhat practical) turd, but still a blistered-fender turd.

The Bullitt has less practicality, but (to me) is exactly the car I've always wanted. Convincing the wife (who is 7 mos pregnant w/our first ankle-biter), to get a 2 dr coupe over a 5 dr hatch however, will be difficult, to say the least.

For day-to-day usage, I will need to test drive both to see which really satisfies me the most (after all this will be my daily driver).

I yearn for some low down torque, and that classic V8 sound however, so you can guess which way I lean.

 

D) All of the above

 

Read the article or better yet watch the video if you attention span is too short.


And yes it is stupid but you insisted on joining it anyway with YOUR opinion.




Basically Rhumb said it best. The article and vid show you the facts about the two cars. So the answer to the question of which is the overall best car (opinions aside)? Is the Subbie.

And with the race heritage that company has I'm ok with that.. they earned it.

 

Well one of the problems with the article is that they used a black 07 SGT. If they had used a blue 08 SGT, it would have smoked the Subbie.

 

Every Mustang model including the GT500 have short comings although some have more than others.
The article is factual based on the tests and seems to be impartial. Its relation of the two cars is based on specs, performance, and price therefore it is a legitimate comparisson.
Insecurity. See the BULLITT Forum for additional and identical references.

 

Well, that gets into a whole other philosophical discussion, just what kind critter is the Mustang?

Pony Car? An affordable, stylish mid-sized RWD coupe with a small/midsize V8 and a good balance between straightline, handling and breaking performance. Sleek, refined, tasteful styling. Examples: '64'-'66 Stang, small block Camaros, Firebird, Challengers and Cudas

Muscle Car? A full size RWD coupe/sedan with a very large, powerful V8 that emphasizes straight line performance. Very aggressive, even flamboyant styling. Examples: GTO, Charger Hemi/440, Chevelle SS, 300 SRT8

Sports Car? Small 2(=2) seat specialized RWD/AWD performance car. Emphasizes all aspects of performance (acceleration, handling, braking with good balance and control feedback). Examples: Miata, Vette, 911, Viper Solstice, Lotus Elise/Exige.

Sport Coupe? small, mid-size 2+2 coupe, FWD or RWD with a highly tuned small to mid sized motor (sometimes large), emphasizing all around vehicle performance and dynamics but usable as a daily driver. Examples: BMW 3 series, Ford Probe, Audi TT, Mitsubishi

Sport Sedan? Similar to a sport coupe, but with 4 doors and perhaps larger. Again emphasizing all around performance and daily drivability. Examples: EVO, STI, Audi S4, Pontiac G8.

But these categories can blur into and overlap each other a bit. The latter big-block Pony Cars really started being more like muscle cars in their singular focus on straight line speed to the detriment of overall performance. Many sports cars like the Vette ZO6 or Viper can offer muscle car like power and acceleration yet maintain excellent dynamics. Some of the AWD sport sedans like the EVO and STI offer muscle-car like straight line numbers and sports car-like vehicle dynamics. And the Pony Car really is, in many senses, but a subset of the Sport Coupe category with a V8 and perhaps a touch larger than the typical European/Japanese varients.

I don't think it's a good thing to think of and compare cars too narrowly, to apply very restrictive interpretations on what a car ought to be. Is it fair to expect excellent vehicle dynamics out of the SGT? If one see's it narrowly only as a muscle car, then perhaps not.

But if one considers it more as a pony car or sports car in the vein of the orignal GT350 or Boss 302, then yes, that's quite a reasonable expectation and thus, it's quite reasonable to compare it to other fine handling vehicles, even if not of its specific type. If anything, if comparing a low-slung sport coupe to a tall, nose-heavy, econo-car based 4-door sport sedan, such a comparison becomes all that much more reasonable with the advantage presumably going to the sport coupe -- heck, it ought to be a rout for the SGT if anything. But rather, in that comparison with the equally priced STI, the SGT falls considerably short.

What if one, then, considers the SGT as a more narrowly focused Muscle Car? With its big V8 motor, front engined RWD and being unencumbered by other considerations, it ought then to easily excel in at least the specific measure of acceleration. But even here, the SGT falls short but for a very small advantage in trap speed, basically loosing despite its presumed muscle-car home-field advantage, the one area it should have at least shown some clear objective advantage.

So in the end, I think its entirely fair to compare the SGT to the various other similarly-priced performance cars it is likely to encounter on the road and ask, just what does that extra $10K get you over a standard Mustang GT? Beyond some ephemeral qualities like uniqueness or "heritage," I simply don't see very much.

Of course, as some are suggesting, you just simply cede victory on any objective performance considerations and just enjoy its looks, image and music -- sort of a Harley Davidson approach -- and I can certainly understand and appreciate enjoying it on a purely experiencial level. But for that $10K extra, I would rather see those warm and fuzzies backed up by some genuine and significant performance improvements.

 

Maybe to be a bit more specific, what WOULD I have expected out of the SGT for that $10K?

At least 350hp minimum though 375-400 would be a good aim point. And back it up with a six speed.

Far better sorted out chassis. The Stang chassis has the potential for dynamic excellence, with excuses for the live axle accepted, but Shelby's execution seems to have fallen far from the mark. The shock/spring tuning seems to have resulted in a flinty ride but without any actual performance improvement. The steering apparantly lacks feel and the brakes are simply inadequate (where are the excellent GT500 Brembos?) And put some decent performance tires on the thing, it's a Shelby GT, not a minivan ferchisakes.

Good Sparco/Recaro sport seats and a short throw shifter.

At least make the fakery (hood scoop) fit well, if not nominally functional.

Now that would back up the SGT's show with some real go and, in my opinion, have made it worth 10-big over a Stang GT and would likely easily run with contemporary performance rides like the STI too.

 

Amen brutha

 

rhumb your points hit it right on the nose. The one area you failed to grasp is we are Mustang fans who objectively make choices without passion or prejudice and seem to accept whatever Ford gives us. We take it, thank them very much for the effort, then smoke a cigarette and all this without even getting kissed.

"... was it good for you?"



Sur, yer all com' back naaw yer hea!
Hee-Haw!

 

You couldn't give me an Sti........

One question?

Any body have the remote for that thing????????????????????????????????

 

Well there's just one problem with this- how is Shelby suppose to make any money?
The problem with the SGT with regards to price is that it's upfitted from Ford. So Shelby needs to make a healthy profit- I can't see how anyone can argue with that.
The Bullitt and the Shelby are almost equipped the same way, but there is about $8000 in price difference. You've got transporting costs, labor costs, office worker costs and then you've got Shelby's profit- all of which needs to come out of that $8000.

Take any car and then send it for upfitting and the price is going to increase a fair amount.
So in one sense this comparision is unfair because while the prices might be the same for the SGT and the STi, but the SGT is really a $31k car.

 

Aftermarket tuners such as Roush, Steeda, Saleen, Foose etc. don't meet your expectations for $10K either (i.e. none have cars for sale in the mid to upper $30Ks that come anywhere near your expectations). Does anyone build a car like that for that price? Maybe, but to many, there's more to it than just performance numbers (otherwise the last Pontiac GTO would have been a home run)

It's been stated many times that you can get more bang for the buck if you DIY. Many TMS members have spent much less on their cars and would smoke both the Subbie, SGT, Bullitt, and any of those tuner cars in that price range from the list above.

I didn't buy mine to street race or slalom, I bought it because I wanted one based mainly on the looks/heritage that appealed to me.

I considered sending my SGT to the SAI mod shop for either a Whipple or Paxton supercharger. Would have been 460hp at the wheels for around $44K out the door. But my primary consideration for getting an SGT wasn't how fast it could go so I decided against it.

There will always be a faster car. If I wanted something cheap and fast (and boring looking), I would have gotten a Pontiac GTO a couple years ago.

**** this is starting to sound like a Bullitt thread from last month

 

Geez, what a newsflash! An AWD car equipped with sticky high performance summer tires is a bit faster around corners than a RWD car with similar power to weight ratio and all season tires? Who could have known? Thanks Edmunds.

Why didn't they compare the new STi against the 350z or the RX8, which surely would have thier "butts kicked" by the STi ? Because a Japanese vs. Japanese car comparison would not draw traffic to their site like a trashing Shelby GT would. It's tabloid jounalism, internet style. They've gotta have those hits to show their advertisers...

Another odd trend is the seething hatred and contempt for anything Shelby related by "enthusiasts" under about 30 years old. People over 30 seem to have a least a little appreciation for the Shelby racing heritage.

And for the money, personally I would rather have a car that gives a better balance of good styling, acceleration, and handling ,like the Shelby GT, than a car that handles great but looks like the automotive incarnation of Quasimodo, like the Subaru.

 

Mark,

You're right on the mark (that sounds kinda odd doesn't it).
There is a premium that needs to be paid for having the Shelby name on a car. Some people can see the value in that and others can't. Personally I think it's worth it, and I don't think the price is out of line.
The SGT was not mean't to be the ultimate driving machine and if someone bought one thinking it would be, well they'll likely be disappointed.

 

the SGT gets under my skin.....

im not going to say the sgt is not a good car. i like it a lot in fact. but for the money i dont feel its worth it. its just a gt with shelby's name all over it, and a partial attempt at making it faster.

does that make it a shelby? not in my mind.
the gt500 is more of a shelby to me..... much higher hp than the gt and looks to boot.

in my mind my very own gt is worth more to me than an SGT is.